Pakistan's Artillery Upgrade Discussions

[Inception-06]

Yeah i think IA too upgraded 200 odd 130 mm guns from israelis,but these guns themselves are very old designs and lack modern features of towed guns like Electronic FCS,crane,autoloader etc.Even bofors and m198 which are the most advnaced towed guns in respective armies lack these features.All these towed guns in the subcontinent are a generation behind modern guns currently in use.

by the way

"The lightweight Russian-designed M-46, which had been in service
with the Indian Army for decades, once again proved its worth on the battlefield. Its
ability to fire rapidly at low angles made it an indispensable source of close range fire
support, and harkened back to the German mountain guns that devastated Greek defenses
with direct fire during the Second World War"

http://hope.nps.edu/Academics/Centers/CCC/Research/StudentTheses/Acosta03.pdf

 

[Capt.Popeye]

by the way

"The lightweight Russian-designed M-46, which had been in service
with the Indian Army for decades, once again proved its worth on the battlefield. Its
ability to fire rapidly at low angles made it an indispensable source of close range fire
support, and harkened back to the German mountain guns that devastated Greek defenses
with direct fire during the Second World War"

http://hope.nps.edu/Academics/Centers/CCC/Research/StudentTheses/Acosta03.pdf

You are absolutely correct about the M-46. Even though its an old gun, it has a tremendous punch. All that it lacks is mobility and a modern FCS. To offset that the IA has mounted some of them on Tank Chassis to make them into SPGH and has modified the FCS to some extent, though BFSR units are also embedded with some units to provide the necessary FC information. A few hundred have been up-gunned to 155mm caliber under the IA's Metamorphosis Project. Its pretty much IA's mainstay in Med. Arty.
A noteworthy point is that the M-46 was derived from a Naval Gun, which was a great success. Its success story some-what parallels that of the famed 88mm Gun of the Wehrmacht in WW 2. What was a high-velocity ack-ack gun became the most formidable anti-tank gun. It was simply the best gun produced by an combatant nation in that war.

 

[Inception-06]

Pakistani crew operates a 155 mm M-198:

The M198 howitzer is a medium-sized, towed artillery piece.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Pakistani crew operates a 155 mm M-198:

View attachment 182757




The M198 howitzer is a medium-sized, towed artillery piece.

@Xeric (hes a gunner) and posted some nice pics of the M-198... in some thread.

 

[Xeric]

@Xeric (hes a gunner) and posted some nice pics of the M-198... in some thread.

Like this:

https://twitter.com/x/status/542389163517947906

 

[Sulman Badshah]

Difference between artillery shell caliber .... It is my shot

25 pdr
105 mm
130 mm
155 mm
203 mm

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Like this:

https://twitter.com/x/status/542389163517947906

 

[Inception-06]

View attachment 183187 View attachment 183188 View attachment 183189

@DESERT FIGHTER @Xeric

A selam Brothers>

What are your experience as a gunner ?

Is it a standard in all Pakistani Artillery regiments to have 12.7mm AA Gun mounted on the Truck for self-protection or is this only a decesion made by local commander ? Because sometimes I miss the 12.7mm AA guns as a secondary weapon on Pakistani A.Trucks ! What is the official order and tactic ?


To install the 12.7mm on (Artillery) Trucks is soviet military doctrine/tactic from WW2 (a very effective tactic to protect the Artillery guns from air and ground threat):

some examples:

Pakistani example with 12.7mm :

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

@DESERT FIGHTER @Xeric

A selam Brothers>

What are your experience as a gunner ?

Is it a standard in all Pakistani Artillery regiments to have 12.7mm AA Gun mounted on the Truck for self-protection or is this only a decesion made by local commander ? Because sometimes I miss the 12.7mm AA guns as a secondary weapon on Pakistani A.Trucks ! What is the official order and tactic ?


To install the 12.7mm on (Artillery) Trucks is soviet military doctrine/tactic from WW2 (a very effective tactic to protect the Artillery guns from air and ground threat):

some examples:
View attachment 183286

Pakistani example with 12.7mm :
View attachment 183287
View attachment 183290

atleast on all armoured vehicles..

 

[ghazi52]

Nice sharing.....................

 

[Path-Finder]

Still waiting to get solid confirmation if SH-1 will/has entered service, infact we should induct self propell all guns. Norinco AH-4 155mm should be looked into for northern areas as light 155mm.

 

[Inception-06]

atleast on all armoured vehicles..

@DESERT FIGHTER thx for the answer !

For armoured vehicles its clear and logical, but for Artillery Trucks it looks different from the situation, which I have analysed over the years, some Trucks have it and some not. The Mercedes Benz Trucks (like in the pictures above) which carry the US-155mm M198 guns always were equipped with the 12.7mm AA Guns, while older and other types like the 105mm artillery Gun- Truck units did not have this secondary weapon, cant understand the logic of Pakistan Army, is it corruption, lack of funds (cant be because 12.7mm is mass produced in Pakistan) or is just undiciplin by the Artillery commanders...or is it like that: only the Elite Artillery Units (M198) have the luxery and dicipline for the secondary weapon @Xeric ?


donty worry I will ask two more questions later !

 

[Xeric]

@DESERT FIGHTER thx for the answer !

For armoured vehicles its clear and logical, but for Artillery Trucks it looks different from the situation, which I have analysed over the years, some Trucks have it and some not. The Mercedes Benz Trucks (like in the pictures above) which carry the US-155mm M198 guns always were equipped with the 12.7mm AA Guns, while older and other types like the 105mm artillery Gun- Truck units did not have this secondary weapon, cant understand the logic of Pakistan Army, is it corruption, lack of funds (cant be because 12.7mm is mass produced in Pakistan) or is just undiciplin by the Artillery commanders...or is it like that: only the Elite Artillery Units (M198) have the luxery and dicipline for the secondary weapon @Xeric ?


donty worry I will ask two more questions later !

Stop overloading your commonsense and blaming the army for being undisciplined or corrupt as there is no 'tactics' involved in placing an 12.7 or an MG on a Gun-Tower.

Unlike a tank or any other armored vehical, an artillery gun does not go into battle while it is still attached to a truck. The 12.7 is there for protection from air during move only. Once deployed, there are other measures which ofcourse will not be discussed. Any artillery unit or battery is authorized with a specific number of air defence weapons which may not be restricted to 12.7s only. So, just because you cant see a 12.7 mounted on every (Pakistani) gun-tower in the pictures that you see on the internet, it would not automatically imply that there is 'lack of funds,' corruption,' or 'lack of discipline' in the military per se.

Now, if you want that i should elaborate upon how we protect our guns from air attack to include the number / type of AA weapons authorized to a unit, just so that your ignorance can be tackled, sorry sir, that's not something i would like to dwell upon.

 

[TheFlyingPretzel]

The PA really ought to invest in a handful of Denel G6's. These things mean business!

 

[Path-Finder]

Yea Denel G6 is a Beast. It would do wonders for our Arty