Pakistan's Artillery Upgrade Discussions

[mingle]

After artillery match Up what option india has?? Can't use air power saw her effectiveness last year? I think no practical option left for india after heavy artillery use.

 

[Armchair]

It all comes whether you have the expertise in making of the barrels...they require complex metallurgy, something which our country still cant do. You can judge this from the fact that how many universities of our country are teaching metallurgy.

Here is a kind of system that is inbetween the capability of traditional artillery and mortar systems. This doesn't require the same grade of metallurgy due to the lower velocity and stress on the barrels. One could make these as a way to supplant traditional artillery perhaps.
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...avily-armed-and-air-droppable-gun-mortar-tank

 

[Shabi1]

After artillery match Up what option india has?? Can't use air power saw her effectiveness last year? I think no practical option left for india after heavy artillery use.

She will go back to try and use unconventional means as before. Proxies that they paid for or used indirectly have failed so maybe direct covert terrorism means by own operatives but this will be very risky as when caught there will be huge consequences.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

We must look into Light Weight Howitzer AH 4

 

[Khanivore]

Are PA's M109s networked yet?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1256803803036151809

 

[Armchair]

Its basically artillery in assault role, our artillery is employed in this configuration for bunker busting of bunkers along enemy DCBs.


It all comes whether you have the expertise in making of the barrels...they require complex metallurgy, something which our country still cant do. You can judge this from the fact that how many universities of our country are teaching metallurgy.

I wonder if Pak military knows about heat treatment post manufacturing. After the barrels are milled, they need to go through various processes of heat treatment. The aim is to harden the steel and achieve higher carbon content on critical sections (such as the inner surface of barrels). This can increase strength by as much as 3 times.

There are a hundred ways to do this and this needs serious research and practical metallurgy. Some methods include using carbon monoxide and plasma, while less sophisticated methods include packing coal in the barrels. Or using bitumen. Multiple stages have to be repeated, sometimes such processes can take over 12 hours.

 

[ali_raza]

Are PA's M109s networked yet?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1256803803036151809

@PanzerKiel

I wonder if Pak military knows about heat treatment post manufacturing. After the barrels are milled, they need to go through various processes of heat treatment. The aim is to harden the steel and achieve higher carbon content on critical sections (such as the inner surface of barrels). This can increase strength by as much as 3 times.

There are a hundred ways to do this and this needs serious research and practical metallurgy. Some methods include using carbon monoxide and plasma, while less sophisticated methods include packing coal in the barrels. Or using bitumen. Multiple stages have to be repeated, sometimes such processes can take over 12 hours.

specialized steel mills r required
we dont have traditionally whts called stell industry neither do anyone in subcontinent for that matter
germany in my view in ww2 more strong and advanced then indian pakistan bangladesh combined of 2020

 

[PanzerKiel]

@PanzerKiel


specialized steel mills r required
we dont have traditionally whts called stell industry neither do anyone in subcontinent for that matter
germany in my view in ww2 more strong and advanced then indian pakistan bangladesh combined of 2020

Networked in which sense?

 

[ali_raza]

Networked in which sense?

they fired shells at the same time at the same target they were i guess connected together some how
i guess is still a concept

 

[PanzerKiel]

they fired shells at the same time at the same target they were i guess connected together some how
i guess is still a concept

No networking required for that. Pretty simple, all are in communication with each other, the Commander gives the firing command, everyone fires together.

 

[Joe Shearer]

@PanzerKiel


specialized steel mills r required
we dont have traditionally whts called stell industry neither do anyone in subcontinent for that matter
germany in my view in ww2 more strong and advanced then indian pakistan bangladesh combined of 2020

Sir, that is very far from correct. I have worked in the steel industry in India and abroad for 12 years, and have worked in every single kind of specialisation of a particular kind of product, uniquely in Indian industry. If you look for Bharat Forge and look for what they are doing, in conjunction with specialised manufacturers of steel billets and barrel blanks, you might get a different view of things.

I have no comment about Germany in WWII, but very many of those whom I knew were trained in Germany, in the best metallurgical industries there. When I read some stuff in some other post on this thread (not yours), I was aghast at the abysmal ignorance on display. On reading your present post, I can only reflect that for someone who for his age and service has displayed almost an encyclopaedic knowledge of matters military, this is a little lacking.

My apologies if I have spoken out of turn.

 

[ali_raza]

Sir, that is very far from correct. I have worked in the steel industry in India and abroad for 12 years, and have worked in every single kind of specialisation of a particular kind of product, uniquely in Indian industry. If you look for Bharat Forge and look for what they are doing, in conjunction with specialised manufacturers of steel billets and barrel blanks, you might get a different view of things.

I have no comment about Germany in WWII, but very many of those whom I knew were trained in Germany, in the best metallurgical industries there. When I read some stuff in some other post on this thread (not yours), I was aghast at the abysmal ignorance on display. On reading your present post, I can only reflect that for someone who for his age and service has displayed almost an encyclopaedic knowledge of matters military, this is a little lacking.

My apologies if I have spoken out of turn.

wht i was referring to was military and collective superiority of third riche
they were class of there own.
there efficiency and total outclassed expertise in planning is unmatched
we desis r yet to reach there.

wht i was referring to was military and collective superiority of third riche
they were class of there own.
there efficiency and total outclassed expertise in planning is unmatched
we desis r yet to reach there.

i rather thankful for ur words
but me personally haven spent time in many countries
lived and studied in US i can say for sure that we as subcontinent r behind because we lack the discipline required
and the attitude of half measures
these habits creat a mess which always gets bigger and bigger
we r poor not because lack of opportunity but because lack of education

 

[Joe Shearer]

wht i was referring to was military and collective superiority of third riche
they were class of there own.
there efficiency and total outclassed expertise in planning is unmatched
we desis r yet to reach there.


i rather thankful for ur words
but me personally haven spent time in many countries
lived and studied in US i can say for sure that we as subcontinent r behind because we lack the discipline required
and the attitude of half measures
these habits creat a mess which always gets bigger and bigger
we r poor not because lack of opportunity but because lack of education

In a generic kind of way, you may be right, but we have two separate sets of towed medium artillery - 155 mm howitzers - one a DRDO design de novo, another a re-working of Bofors transferred technology that was completely overlooked for decades. In addition, the older, but very, very reliable 130 mm Russian guns are being up-gunned to 155 mm at a cost of a crore apiece - this has been reported earlier. These are quite apart from the M777 heli-portable titanium-built gun procured, ironically, from BAE Systems US, and the self-propelled K9 howitzer re-named Vajra and bought from the Koreans for manufacture by the Indian partner.

It may be noted that both the two developments ATAGS and Dhanush have ranges in excess of the Bofors 27 kms.; I was flabbergasted to read of 100 kms. ranges in one post.

While there is a major emphasis on standardisation on 155 mm, there is also the capability to manufacture 105 mm field guns, both towed and truck/vehicle mounted (not SP), and a technology demonstration of the same field gun in titanium, hence heli-portable like the M777.

In the same context, keeping in view the Major's comments on the relevance of towed artillery and self-propelled artillery in mountain areas, there is urgent work going on for the strengthening of roads to bear up to 40 tonnes load throughout Ladakh and Arunachal Pradesh. Part of this programme includes building - annually - 3 miles of bridges (through the two border areas).

@Arsalan
@PanzerKiel

 

[ali_raza]

In a generic kind of way, you may be right, but we have two separate sets of towed medium artillery - 155 mm howitzers - one a DRDO design de novo, another a re-working of Bofors transferred technology that was completely overlooked for decades. In addition, the older, but very, very reliable 130 mm Russian guns are being up-gunned to 155 mm at a cost of a crore apiece - this has been reported earlier. These are quite apart from the M777 heli-portable titanium-built gun procured, ironically, from BAE Systems US, and the self-propelled K9 howitzer re-named Vajra and bought from the Koreans for manufacture by the Indian partner.

It may be noted that both the two developments ATAGS and Dhanush have ranges in excess of the Bofors 27 kms.; I was flabbergasted to read of 100 kms. ranges in one post.

While there is a major emphasis on standardisation on 155 mm, there is also the capability to manufacture 105 mm field guns, both towed and truck/vehicle mounted (not SP), and a technology demonstration of the same field gun in titanium, hence heli-portable like the M777.

In the same context, keeping in view the Major's comments on the relevance of towed artillery and self-propelled artillery in mountain areas, there is urgent work going on for the strengthening of roads to bear up to 40 tonnes load throughout Ladakh and Arunachal Pradesh. Part of this programme includes building - annually - 3 miles of bridges (through the two border areas).

@Arsalan
@PanzerKiel

u just answered urself
u r forced to work on the products made by westerners 5 decades ago.
i will be happy if a new out of box thing was invented
its not against india but as my notion that we lack the vision of creativity
that’s reality of situation

 

[Joe Shearer]

u just answered urself
u r forced to work on the products made by westerners 5 decades ago.
i will be happy if a new out of box thing was invented
its not against india but as my notion that we lack the vision of creativity
that’s reality of situation

LOL.

We don't need creativity. We need two artillery divisions with converging fire trajectories firing shells 45 kms in and around the areas hinted at for deployment of all the brand new armoured brigades and motorised infantry formations being put together. The creativity can come later; at the moment, we need to hold what we have.

We don't need to conquer a country several times bigger than ours for the sake of lebensraum; we don't need to drive through armies stronger than ours; we just need to see off whoever wants to shoot us up.