Bilal Khan (Quwa)
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Pakistan's Airborne Early Warning and Control Aircrafts
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Khan vilatey
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How about a private sub-forum on this forum with the oldies? Call it the '32 F-16 Club'
i remember all those fights, I was young and stupid now I realize i am just stupid
please start the club it would be good to connect kv
Usman lives Denmark not sure he is active on new forum? Used to twitter ID but don't share anything there?
waz
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How about a private sub-forum on this forum with the oldies? Call it the '32 F-16 Club'
Hmmm I'm liking it bro, let me speak to the Big Boss. Although he will probably say just tell them to register and add to our might.
Oh man I remember the Kargil battles, each Pakistani was like 'one punch man' facing multiple waves of Indians, as Pakistan's internet coverage was non-existent and it was mostly us expats hahaha.
waz
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i remember all those fights, I was young and stupid now I realize i am just stupid
kv
Don't be silly bro, you were the vanguard which paved the way for millions of our brothers and sisters now. I'm not even playing saying this. Our work was so important back in the day.
Khan vilatey
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good to connect with old friends, those were awesome times l I was wajman
good to hear very smart person. I was wajman
kv
leave you a blast from the past
Jas-39 Gripen Vs Sukhoi Su-30mki
kataphraktoi
Sep 8 2003, 03:01 PM
perhaps small correction is required here ....
OK guyz, can grippen (supported by awacs) Beat Su-30mki (supported by awacs)?
actually i read somewhere that Phalcon is superior to AWACS because it is mounted in the nose of the Russian Illyushin-76 and not as a rotor dome on top thereby making it more maneuverable? ....: ermm
Rahul
Sep 8 2003, 04: 04 PM
Sorry Guys.
Su30 mki has longer range tracking and engagement radar.
Longer range AAM for destroying planes at 200-300 kilometers.
Boats twin engines that can travel to 1500 miles away to fight.
Carries twice the payload ie between 9-12 missles.
Yet remarkably it is a relatively lightweight fighter complete with thrust vectoring control.
Highly agile
The gripen is my favorite looking plane in the world. But in terms of performance SU30MKI is bigger and more powerful.
The only plane superior to su30 mki today is Typhoon and Raphael.
When jsf & f22 they will be the best.
SU30 MKI with Phalcon is a deadly cobination.
GRIPEN IN paf colors with E3 Sentry is my dream
..................
Iranian Warrior
Sep 8 2003, 05:23 PM
Gripens have one huge advantage. Their datalinks. The pilots will have a much better situational awareness .... Gripens can share info with eachother ..
Also Gripen has the AMRAAM, MKI has the Adder, so at BVR its very equal. In WVR, the HMS and Archer turns the favour to the MKI.
"The R-27ER/ET with thier 70 mile range probaly will "not hit the broad side of a barn""
You are basing that on Ethipia, Eritrea, where people are not so sure the missiles were maintained well, and were fired against Russian and Ukranian Mercenaries who knew the limitations of the missiles, and hence may have known effienct counter manuvers. The Chinese and Indians would not have bout 2000+ missiles if they were so ineffective....... Also bear in mind that the N-019 and N-001 of those MiG-29's and Su-27's were very prone to losing their targets, in which case the SARH missile would have no chance of hitting such a target..
We know how capable the AIM-54 C ECCM SEALED is, yet it has failed on the four occasions it has been used in combat with a sucess rate of 0%...
Anyway that said, you are right that the R-27 is not such a serious threat at BVR, but it has a huge advantage in getting first shot. The Pilot in the gripen, isnt gonna sit there saying, dont worry the missile will miss, he will move to evade regardless of how effective the missile is, he will take countermeasures., which leaves the MKI in a better position to fire the ADDER or ARCHER.....
As for "The only plane superior to su30 mki today is Typhoon and Raphael."
according to BAE, Typhoon has a 4.5:1 kill ratio against the Su-35, and the rafael has 1:1 ratio. Bear in mind that Su-30MKI is more combat effective than the Su-35....
"And F-15K and the F-15C MSIP II (AESA) of Alaska ............"
F-15K is nearly three times as expensive. Pick 3 MKI, or 1 F-15K ....
And the AESA eagles iN Alaska are 24 in number and will stay that ay from the looks of it ... Mind you though, would have loved to see those radars on a few F-15 ACTIVE ... remeber that supermanuverable project ????
..................
Rahul
Sep 9 2003,
03:12 PM SU30 MKI HAS DATA LINKING HAS STANDARD.
a RECENT SURVEY IN HERE paf FORUM OF ALL WORLDS FIGHTERS su30 mki came above Gripen M, IRAGE 2000-5 AND LATEST F16 & WAS MATCH FOR VERY BEST F15 & F18 SUPER HORNETS.
I say again only aircraft superior to mki is Typhoon & Raphael possibly latest F15 & F18 ...
but grip [en def the best looking. and a must for paf IF ONLY .....
wajman
Sep 9 2003, 11:21 PM
sir i respect iran and her decdent in my opinion hey r people with balls no disrespect intended but some how i feel that you at a personel level have some reservations against Paksitan.
well r77 track record speaks for it self ie please check out the horns of africa war between ethopia and eritria. the missile was found to be ineffective that is why pakistan is probably intrusted in the darter series for its af
i thought the phinx of the us. navy had the longest range ie 90 ~ 100 MILES
ok now the phalcon radar is better than the americab e-3c scenetries a time tested awacs considered to be the best on the planet it was always said to be as capable tot eh naval version of the us. navy.
soeey about the mig-33 the finest fighter in russian af is the mig-31m foxhound intercepter and now a with a multirole profile as well. in its said that 4 mig-31s with data links can cover an area of 800kms. its said to be like a mini awacs which fights.
the russians did not induct the su-30s into their own af tells you something.
R-73, Python 4, Moskit, Granit, S-300, S-400, MICA.............
r-73 not relialble counterpart amram aim-120 is considered to be the best bvr missle inthe worls.
moskit = russian anit ship missle supersonic and all bet so far has no major kills toits credit while the harpoon has been battle tested
s-300 sam biggest enemy on this planet is the american advanced ant i radar missle i forgot the name. compared to the hawk missles. even iran has them though they had access to s-300and 400
ok so lavi would beat the f-16 which block r we are talking about.
Russia gives MKK, MKI which are not used by themselves. Israel gives Phalcon a good system though lets c what happens and Python 4 and Derby not neccarliy thier best probaly working on something better.
Hellscream
Sep 9 2003, 11:37 PM
my god u are seriously misinformed .........
that was the R-27 used in the African war not the R-77 ..
ummm the russians are inducting the Su-35 i beleive............what do u mean it tells u something ??
they run on a shoestring budget and cant afford to buy anything atwill.
or else even the Su-37 terminator would be in service.
R-73 is not the counterpart of the AMRAAM
first of all it is IR guided not Radar guided like the Aim-120
secondly it is more of a WVR missile ...........with HMS..
the Moskit is one of the finest Ashms in the world............dont beleive me ??
ask ur chinese friends.
the Python-4 was their best till the Python-5 came out.....
There was one from him showing world airforces fighting alien invasion jointlyGood old days.
Thanks a lot for sharing
Lol. Back when SU30 was the mini-AWACS and raptor of the East.good to connect with old friends, those were awesome times l I was wajman
good to hear very smart person. I was wajman
kv
leave you a blast from the past
Jas-39 Gripen Vs Sukhoi Su-30mki
kataphraktoi
Sep 8 2003, 03:01 PM
perhaps small correction is required here ....
OK guyz, can grippen (supported by awacs) Beat Su-30mki (supported by awacs)?
actually i read somewhere that Phalcon is superior to AWACS because it is mounted in the nose of the Russian Illyushin-76 and not as a rotor dome on top thereby making it more maneuverable? ....: ermm
Rahul
Sep 8 2003, 04: 04 PM
Sorry Guys.
Su30 mki has longer range tracking and engagement radar.
Longer range AAM for destroying planes at 200-300 kilometers.
Boats twin engines that can travel to 1500 miles away to fight.
Carries twice the payload ie between 9-12 missles.
Yet remarkably it is a relatively lightweight fighter complete with thrust vectoring control.
Highly agile
The gripen is my favorite looking plane in the world. But in terms of performance SU30MKI is bigger and more powerful.
The only plane superior to su30 mki today is Typhoon and Raphael.
When jsf & f22 they will be the best.
SU30 MKI with Phalcon is a deadly cobination.
GRIPEN IN paf colors with E3 Sentry is my dream
..................
Iranian Warrior
Sep 8 2003, 05:23 PM
Gripens have one huge advantage. Their datalinks. The pilots will have a much better situational awareness .... Gripens can share info with eachother ..
Also Gripen has the AMRAAM, MKI has the Adder, so at BVR its very equal. In WVR, the HMS and Archer turns the favour to the MKI.
"The R-27ER/ET with thier 70 mile range probaly will "not hit the broad side of a barn""
You are basing that on Ethipia, Eritrea, where people are not so sure the missiles were maintained well, and were fired against Russian and Ukranian Mercenaries who knew the limitations of the missiles, and hence may have known effienct counter manuvers. The Chinese and Indians would not have bout 2000+ missiles if they were so ineffective....... Also bear in mind that the N-019 and N-001 of those MiG-29's and Su-27's were very prone to losing their targets, in which case the SARH missile would have no chance of hitting such a target..
We know how capable the AIM-54 C ECCM SEALED is, yet it has failed on the four occasions it has been used in combat with a sucess rate of 0%...
Anyway that said, you are right that the R-27 is not such a serious threat at BVR, but it has a huge advantage in getting first shot. The Pilot in the gripen, isnt gonna sit there saying, dont worry the missile will miss, he will move to evade regardless of how effective the missile is, he will take countermeasures., which leaves the MKI in a better position to fire the ADDER or ARCHER.....
As for "The only plane superior to su30 mki today is Typhoon and Raphael."
according to BAE, Typhoon has a 4.5:1 kill ratio against the Su-35, and the rafael has 1:1 ratio. Bear in mind that Su-30MKI is more combat effective than the Su-35....
"And F-15K and the F-15C MSIP II (AESA) of Alaska ............"
F-15K is nearly three times as expensive. Pick 3 MKI, or 1 F-15K ....
And the AESA eagles iN Alaska are 24 in number and will stay that ay from the looks of it ... Mind you though, would have loved to see those radars on a few F-15 ACTIVE ... remeber that supermanuverable project ????
..................
Rahul
Sep 9 2003,
03:12 PM SU30 MKI HAS DATA LINKING HAS STANDARD.
a RECENT SURVEY IN HERE paf FORUM OF ALL WORLDS FIGHTERS su30 mki came above Gripen M, IRAGE 2000-5 AND LATEST F16 & WAS MATCH FOR VERY BEST F15 & F18 SUPER HORNETS.
I say again only aircraft superior to mki is Typhoon & Raphael possibly latest F15 & F18 ...
but grip [en def the best looking. and a must for paf IF ONLY .....
wajman
Sep 9 2003, 11:21 PM
sir i respect iran and her decdent in my opinion hey r people with balls no disrespect intended but some how i feel that you at a personel level have some reservations against Paksitan.
well r77 track record speaks for it self ie please check out the horns of africa war between ethopia and eritria. the missile was found to be ineffective that is why pakistan is probably intrusted in the darter series for its af
i thought the phinx of the us. navy had the longest range ie 90 ~ 100 MILES
ok now the phalcon radar is better than the americab e-3c scenetries a time tested awacs considered to be the best on the planet it was always said to be as capable tot eh naval version of the us. navy.
soeey about the mig-33 the finest fighter in russian af is the mig-31m foxhound intercepter and now a with a multirole profile as well. in its said that 4 mig-31s with data links can cover an area of 800kms. its said to be like a mini awacs which fights.
the russians did not induct the su-30s into their own af tells you something.
R-73, Python 4, Moskit, Granit, S-300, S-400, MICA.............
r-73 not relialble counterpart amram aim-120 is considered to be the best bvr missle inthe worls.
moskit = russian anit ship missle supersonic and all bet so far has no major kills toits credit while the harpoon has been battle tested
s-300 sam biggest enemy on this planet is the american advanced ant i radar missle i forgot the name. compared to the hawk missles. even iran has them though they had access to s-300and 400
ok so lavi would beat the f-16 which block r we are talking about.
Russia gives MKK, MKI which are not used by themselves. Israel gives Phalcon a good system though lets c what happens and Python 4 and Derby not neccarliy thier best probaly working on something better.
Hellscream
Sep 9 2003, 11:37 PM
my god u are seriously misinformed .........
that was the R-27 used in the African war not the R-77 ..
ummm the russians are inducting the Su-35 i beleive............what do u mean it tells u something ??
they run on a shoestring budget and cant afford to buy anything atwill.
or else even the Su-37 terminator would be in service.
R-73 is not the counterpart of the AMRAAM
first of all it is IR guided not Radar guided like the Aim-120
secondly it is more of a WVR missile ...........with HMS..it is comparable to the Aim-9X
the Moskit is one of the finest Ashms in the world............dont beleive me ??
ask ur chinese friends.
the Python-4 was their best till the Python-5 came out.....
Oh, missed that one .There was one from him showing world airforces fighting alien invasion jointly
Must have been interesting
yep i used to be a frequent member of that forum and then later on pakdef.info. Those were some good old times. Luckily, we still have a great community here on this forum as well.
Imran Khan
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i like this part of rahul's postgood to connect with old friends, those were awesome times l I was wajman
good to hear very smart person. I was wajman
kv
leave you a blast from the past
Jas-39 Gripen Vs Sukhoi Su-30mki
kataphraktoi
Sep 8 2003, 03:01 PM
perhaps small correction is required here ....
OK guyz, can grippen (supported by awacs) Beat Su-30mki (supported by awacs)?
actually i read somewhere that Phalcon is superior to AWACS because it is mounted in the nose of the Russian Illyushin-76 and not as a rotor dome on top thereby making it more maneuverable? ....: ermm
Rahul
Sep 8 2003, 04: 04 PM
Sorry Guys.
Su30 mki has longer range tracking and engagement radar.
Longer range AAM for destroying planes at 200-300 kilometers.
Boats twin engines that can travel to 1500 miles away to fight.
Carries twice the payload ie between 9-12 missles.
Yet remarkably it is a relatively lightweight fighter complete with thrust vectoring control.
Highly agile
The gripen is my favorite looking plane in the world. But in terms of performance SU30MKI is bigger and more powerful.
The only plane superior to su30 mki today is Typhoon and Raphael.
When jsf & f22 they will be the best.
SU30 MKI with Phalcon is a deadly cobination.
GRIPEN IN paf colors with E3 Sentry is my dream
..................
Iranian Warrior
Sep 8 2003, 05:23 PM
Gripens have one huge advantage. Their datalinks. The pilots will have a much better situational awareness .... Gripens can share info with eachother ..
Also Gripen has the AMRAAM, MKI has the Adder, so at BVR its very equal. In WVR, the HMS and Archer turns the favour to the MKI.
"The R-27ER/ET with thier 70 mile range probaly will "not hit the broad side of a barn""
You are basing that on Ethipia, Eritrea, where people are not so sure the missiles were maintained well, and were fired against Russian and Ukranian Mercenaries who knew the limitations of the missiles, and hence may have known effienct counter manuvers. The Chinese and Indians would not have bout 2000+ missiles if they were so ineffective....... Also bear in mind that the N-019 and N-001 of those MiG-29's and Su-27's were very prone to losing their targets, in which case the SARH missile would have no chance of hitting such a target..
We know how capable the AIM-54 C ECCM SEALED is, yet it has failed on the four occasions it has been used in combat with a sucess rate of 0%...
Anyway that said, you are right that the R-27 is not such a serious threat at BVR, but it has a huge advantage in getting first shot. The Pilot in the gripen, isnt gonna sit there saying, dont worry the missile will miss, he will move to evade regardless of how effective the missile is, he will take countermeasures., which leaves the MKI in a better position to fire the ADDER or ARCHER.....
As for "The only plane superior to su30 mki today is Typhoon and Raphael."
according to BAE, Typhoon has a 4.5:1 kill ratio against the Su-35, and the rafael has 1:1 ratio. Bear in mind that Su-30MKI is more combat effective than the Su-35....
"And F-15K and the F-15C MSIP II (AESA) of Alaska ............"
F-15K is nearly three times as expensive. Pick 3 MKI, or 1 F-15K ....
And the AESA eagles iN Alaska are 24 in number and will stay that ay from the looks of it ... Mind you though, would have loved to see those radars on a few F-15 ACTIVE ... remeber that supermanuverable project ????
..................
Rahul
Sep 9 2003,
03:12 PM SU30 MKI HAS DATA LINKING HAS STANDARD.
a RECENT SURVEY IN HERE paf FORUM OF ALL WORLDS FIGHTERS su30 mki came above Gripen M, IRAGE 2000-5 AND LATEST F16 & WAS MATCH FOR VERY BEST F15 & F18 SUPER HORNETS.
I say again only aircraft superior to mki is Typhoon & Raphael possibly latest F15 & F18 ...
but grip [en def the best looking. and a must for paf IF ONLY .....
wajman
Sep 9 2003, 11:21 PM
sir i respect iran and her decdent in my opinion hey r people with balls no disrespect intended but some how i feel that you at a personel level have some reservations against Paksitan.
well r77 track record speaks for it self ie please check out the horns of africa war between ethopia and eritria. the missile was found to be ineffective that is why pakistan is probably intrusted in the darter series for its af
i thought the phinx of the us. navy had the longest range ie 90 ~ 100 MILES
ok now the phalcon radar is better than the americab e-3c scenetries a time tested awacs considered to be the best on the planet it was always said to be as capable tot eh naval version of the us. navy.
soeey about the mig-33 the finest fighter in russian af is the mig-31m foxhound intercepter and now a with a multirole profile as well. in its said that 4 mig-31s with data links can cover an area of 800kms. its said to be like a mini awacs which fights.
the russians did not induct the su-30s into their own af tells you something.
R-73, Python 4, Moskit, Granit, S-300, S-400, MICA.............
r-73 not relialble counterpart amram aim-120 is considered to be the best bvr missle inthe worls.
moskit = russian anit ship missle supersonic and all bet so far has no major kills toits credit while the harpoon has been battle tested
s-300 sam biggest enemy on this planet is the american advanced ant i radar missle i forgot the name. compared to the hawk missles. even iran has them though they had access to s-300and 400
ok so lavi would beat the f-16 which block r we are talking about.
Russia gives MKK, MKI which are not used by themselves. Israel gives Phalcon a good system though lets c what happens and Python 4 and Derby not neccarliy thier best probaly working on something better.
Hellscream
Sep 9 2003, 11:37 PM
my god u are seriously misinformed .........
that was the R-27 used in the African war not the R-77 ..
ummm the russians are inducting the Su-35 i beleive............what do u mean it tells u something ??
they run on a shoestring budget and cant afford to buy anything atwill.
or else even the Su-37 terminator would be in service.
R-73 is not the counterpart of the AMRAAM
first of all it is IR guided not Radar guided like the Aim-120
secondly it is more of a WVR missile ...........with HMS..it is comparable to the Aim-9X
the Moskit is one of the finest Ashms in the world............dont beleive me ??
ask ur chinese friends.
the Python-4 was their best till the Python-5 came out.....
Su30 mki has longer range tracking and engagement radar.
Longer range AAM for destroying planes at 200-300 kilometers.
The Raven
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Yep, I was on PakDef since the late 90s, good old days. I had many 'heated debates' shall we say, with Munir, that guy was something else, an ego so big he just couldn't get to grips with reality. Back then we were limited to discussing how the PAF would have to rely on anti-BVR tactics and fox-2 only capability against the hoard of BVR equipped IAF fleet backed up with AWACS and IFR...how things have changed, all thanks to a few visionary PAF ACMs (such as the late Mushaf Ali Mir) and with the support of Mushy's time in office.
Yasser76
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I remember back then. I mentioned that Pak would get Block 52 F-16s with CFTs, AMRAAMS and JDAMS right after 9/11. Usman and Munir laughed and one of my posts was even edited for suggesting it. Funny world.
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