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Pakistan's acquisition of the U-214

Brother"arsalanaslam123 "

deal finalized or not ?

well not finalized as such but atleast the fears of cancelation in favour of french subs is gone now!
so hopefull every thing will stay on track and we may seee the official signing of the deal somwhere in october!!

regards!
 
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well not finalized as such but atleast the fears of cancelation in favour of french subs is gone now!
so hopefull every thing will stay on track and we may seee the official signing of the deal somwhere in october!!

regards!

Alhamdolillah,

French say too Jann Chotee,
Brother arsalanaslam123 again thanks.
 
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my pleasure bro. :)
but it would be helpful if you can check of rsuch infos on the existing posts as it was discussd in detail. had you gone through thise posts you would have surely have learnt a lot more intresting facts!!
i am saying this to you only because i know that you will understand and take it as a friendly advise and nothing offensive,, :smitten:

anyway bro there is a better alternative to say thanks dear. just hit that button!! ;) :lol: keep hiting it dude! :bounce:

regards!
 
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On Monday Sept 21/09,
ThyssenKrupp Marine informed the Greek Minister of Defence that it was canceling “The Archimedes Project” contract for 4 U-214 diesel-electric submarines with Air-Independent Propulsion technology, because the government’s payments had remained underwater for too long. Accumulated payment arrears are over EUR 520 million ($767 million). ThyssenKrupp and its subsidiary Hellenic Shipyards will now seek international arbitration, in order to recover some of the payments due under its contract.

This development is the just the latest chapter in a long saga. If the issue remains unresolved, or arbitration results in termination payments but no delivery, Greece could find itself without a submarine force…
 
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The Hellenic Navy is procuring four Type 214 submarines to be known as the "Katsonis-class". The first, Papanikolis, was built in Germany; the following three were scheduled for construction at HDW's Hellenic Shipyards in Greece.

In December 2006, Papanikolis was found to have numerous technical problems.
The submarine were excessive propeller cavitation.
Overheating of the air-independent propulsion system's fuel cells. Excessive rolling in bad weather when surfaced.
Inadequate air-independent propulsion system output power, inappropriate periscope vibration, sonar flank array problems and seawater leakage into the ship's hydraulics.
Seapower magazine reported the Hellenic Navy refused to accept Papanikolis;

TKMS, the German shipbuilder of Type 214
, has asserted that it solved all the boat's technical problems in 2006 and claims the Greek Navy's continuing complaints about the Papanikolis' technical condition are just a ploy to justify a price reduction. Therefore, TKMS has refused to deliver the boat to the Greek Navy until all debts are paid and the Papanikolis had been lying in Kiel harbor ever since 2006. In October 2008, the Papanikolis conducted a new round of trials, which showed that the excessive rolling problem has been fixed. The rest of the problems are considered solved. According to the Greek defence press, acceptance of the vessel was imminent.

Despite the aforementioned concerns stated by the Greek military, the shipyard alleges that it is the Greek government's inability to pay for the submarine that is the real cause for the delay.

The second boat, Pipinos, was officially launched in February 2007 and is at present going through Greek harbour acceptance trials in Piraeus.

On September 21st, 2009 TKMS annouced that the contract with the Greek Navy for all four submarines had been cancelled due to country's arrears of more than 520 million Euros. TKMS is now seeking arbitration to resolve the matter.

.......Are we going for this one with problems........
 
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Germany Cancels Submarine Contract with Greece

The German shipyard Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft GmbH (HDW), from Kiel, Germany, and its Greek subsidiary Hellenic Shipyards S.A. (HSY), of Skaramangas, Athens, announced the cancellation of the two submarine programs signed with the Greek defense ministry in 2000 and 2002. The companies claim the outstanding debtby the Hellenic government has accumulated beyond half billion euros. However, since the construction of the four submarines has been completed, and the client is over half a billion Euros in debt, HDW will gain little from the cancellation. However, a forthcoming arbitration, especially with post-election government due in a few months could resolve the crisis.

The "Archimedes" program involved the delivery of four Class U214 submarines, equipped with air-independent fuel cell propulsion. The construction of all four submarines is now completed. The air-independent fuel-cell technology was selected for the modernization of three Hellenic Navy Class 209 submarines, under “Neptun II” submarine modernization program. The lead submarine of the Type 214 Papanikolis-class was completed in 2006 but was never accepted by the Hellenic Navy. Two years later it was certified as seaworthy by the German MoD. The other three vessels, Pipinos, Matrozos and Katsonis have all been launched at HSY in Greece.

While the manufacturers agree that the client refused to accept the first vessel, they claim the Greek defense ministry has failed to pay Eur. 524 million over the last two years. "With this cancellation HSY has lost the main technology supplier essential for fulfilling the construction programs." Warns HDW, asserting Greece risks grounding its modern submarine force by not complying with the terms of the contract. (In addition to the three Poseidon subs, Greece has four Glavkos Type 209 vessels also built by the German shipyard.) In 2005 ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems acquired HSY, modernized and expanded it to become the largest shipyards in the Eastern Mediterranean. However, like many other shipyards, they currently suffer from the economical crisis, particularly the collapse of demand for yachts and merchant ships.

Germany Cancels Submarine Contract with Greece


TKMS has been involved in two contracts with the Greek state. The first of the contracts, dubbed “Archimedes Project”, was for the procurement of four 214-class boats, which are also successfully operated by the German Navy. Those boats are fitted with a state-of-the-art fuel-cell technology, allowing it to operate submerged for a very long time. According to TKMS, all four were ready for delivery. The second contract has been concluded to retrofit three 209-class submarines with fuel-cell propulsion technology.

The first 214-class submarine, christened Papanikolis, was laid down in Kiel as far back as February 2001 and launched in April 2004. The contract planned for the manufacturing of the remaining three boats at the Hellenic Shipyards, near Athens, which just as HDW is now part of the German ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (TKMS) group. As soon as the Papanikolis started her sea trials, however, the Hellenic Navy found a veritable host of major and minor problems with the vessel, which until today has resulted in the refusal to accept her.

The Hellenic Navy declared that the submarine suffered from insufficient stability while sailing in rough sea conditions, heeling by as much as 35-58°. Beyond that they found that the AIP system became inoperable after a few hours and noted problems with the ISUS battle system. The official report of the Navy also said that sea water was leaking into the hydraulic systems and that the submarine was not quite as expected. Therefore, Papanikolis has been docked in Kiel since 2006.
German industry accepted some of the shortcomings liabilities and maintains to have finally fixed the problems, however, payment has still not been made. Some expert suggested that Greece has been intentionally protracting the problem in order to delay payments and renegotiate the price. In fact, Greek Defence Minister Evangelos Meimarakis said in January he would try to renegotiate the contract.

Since the delivery of the Papanikolis, TKMS insisted that the submarine “met all standards” and, subsequently, engaged into long and fruitless talks with the Greek government on the issue. In addition to the production of the submarines, TKMS has largely invested in modernising and expanding Hellenic Shipyards site, buying it in January 2005. According to TKMS is has provided Greece with the most modern yard to build non-nuclear submarines on the entire Mediterranean.

Back in May, a ray of hope had appeared, when the Chief of the Hellenic Navy General Staff, Vice Admiral Giorgos Karamalikis, was quoted as saying that the technical problems with the Type 214 submarine were being solved and that Greece could soon be in a position to accept the three follow-on vessels. According to the quote, HDW had been willing to keep the Papanikolis and try to sell it to another interested buyer, which may have been Poland.

Although recent reports do not refer to this earlier development, it seems that this alternative has not been successful, as TKMS has now clearly decided to terminate the contracts and to see that payment will finally be made by the Greek government.

Germany’s ThyssenKrupp Terminates Greek Submarine Contracts - Military Photos
 
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The Hellenic Navy declared that the submarine suffered from insufficient stability while sailing in rough sea conditions, heeling by as much as 35-58°. Beyond that they found that the AIP system became inoperable after a few hours and noted problems with the ISUS battle system. The official report of the Navy also said that sea water was leaking into the hydraulic systems and that the submarine was not quite as expected. Therefore, Papanikolis has been docked in Kiel since 2006.

BS.
An excuse by the greeks.... as of now... every single problem has been fixed.
 
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The elections are over and as I expected, those parties that favours companies and economy won, so there should be no more major problems, or delays for this deal.
Also that the Greek deal was cancelled could give PN the chance to get the one that is ready, at least if Turkey won't get it.
 
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some more
U 214 Project

Howaldtswerke Deutsche Werft AG is a mouthful for most Americans, so the company simply refers to itself as HDW. The huge sign at the main entrance to the shipbuilding company in Kiel simply reads, "HDW". During the Second World the shipbuilding company concentrated its efforts on submarines and as a result was a primary target for strategic bombing. It was largely destroyed as a result and as a part of reparations much of the undamaged shipbuilding equipment was dismantled and sent off to victorious nations. An example of an HDW piece of equipment thus transferred is the gigantic crane that is a landmark at the Hunters Point Naval Shipyard.

For many years submarines were repaired at this facility as well as being the location of a submarine training location.

When HDW restarted its shipbuilding there was need of surface ships able to handle the increasing sea transportation of crude oil. When restrictions on submarine building were lifted the company began a limited program of coastal submarine building for the Federal German Navy. With its experience at cold rolling HY 80 and 100 steel the company was able to craft some impressive little submarines with deep submergence capabilities.

In Sweden research was in full swing on an air independent engine called the Sterling Engine. This research was taking a different route to non-nuclear submerged propulsion than its German counterpart. HDW worked with Siemens, a giant German electrical manufacturing company similar to General Electric. At Siemens the emphasis for submarine propulsive power research was the fuel cell. In simplest terms the fuel cell is a submarine battery that can not only be charged by traditional means of current generation, but can be continuously charged by the chemical generation of renewed electrolyte. While the United States had similar interest in the possibility of a fuel cell in the 1950s it had invested so much money into the development of a submarine nuclear reactor that a basic decision was made to concentrate all resources on the nuclear propulsion program.

Because a fuel cell is quiet and a nuclear power plant in noisy experts on submarine propulsion often argue that total reliance on nuclear propulsion is short-sighted. Additionally, the cost of an HDW submarine is about one fifth the cost of a Virginia class submarine. Having said this, one cannot compare cost since the missions and comprehensive capabilities are so divergent.

HDW's most recent submarines, the U-212 and 214 are popular with other nations and those having even the smallest shore desire the prestige of having a submarine force. As a result the United States needs to have a thorough knowledge of how the fuel cell works and what, if any, the prolification of submarine building might have on our submarine fleet.

The U-214 Project will accomplish this in several aspects:

* How does a fuel cell work?
* How does the Sterling engine work?
* Who is building what types of submarines?
* How does the fuel cell and Sterling AIP submerged propulsion systems impact United States submarine?
Submarine Research Center - U-214 Project
 
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Brother, arsalanaslam123 & Growler ,

Only German subs will feature self defence weapon which has the advantage of firing while submerged... only few subs can fire SAMs but only on surface and a great great risk of being detected and destroyed. (I red this some where in this forum)


So,
Is this mean , that, U214 which we are buying now, can hit a air target like helicopter which we induct recently?
 
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Brother, arsalanaslam123 & Growler ,

Only German subs will feature self defence weapon which has the advantage of firing while submerged... only few subs can fire SAMs but only on surface and a great great risk of being detected and destroyed. (I red this some where in this forum)


So,
Is this mean , that, U214 which we are buying now, can hit a air target like helicopter which we induct recently?

Who ever has said that is totally wrong! IDAS is offered to us for type-214 weapons package and mind you both Type-212/14 uses same torpedo tubes technology.
 
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So any updates on Pakistani deal or President is still dragging his feet for some other ways?

No news recently in media about PN getting U-214s. WHY?
 
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