Pakistanis have failed so see the latest Indians psychological gimmickry

[qsaark]

Ejaz Saheb, excellent posts. This indeed is the true history and can be found in various books written on this subject both by the British, and Indians/Pakistanis. However, this is not what we Pakistanis are taught in our text books; Pakistani people are brain washed systematically for over sixty or so years.

Indeed, Pakistan was made for the Muslim elites, and this can easily be seen from the leaders of the All India Muslim League, all Nawabs and rich folks (except very few from the middle class). Muslims were watching that their time of ruling the Hindu majority had come to an end and once the British leave, Muslims will have no choice but to live as a minority. Hence there felt a need to get a separate country where these Nawabs and elites could continue to rule.

 

[PakShaheen79]

@ EjazR

Bro you can move on with 100s of Gujrat, Babri Masjid etc. like incidents in India not we. So good luck with your stay in Maha Baharat, Wish you best of luck again.

@qsaark

Well ,I don't know who brainwashed you but can you please tell me which elite family Jinnah belongs to? FYI, Nawabs and Elite joined ML when it was apparent after WWII that subcontinent will have two separate states and still it is mystery where all those Nawabs went after Pakistan came into existence in 1947... I am yet to see a Nawab's familiy in Pakistani politics whihc joined ML lately to rule the masses as you depict.

Current Pakistani elite has nothing to do with leaders of ML of 1940s be it Nawabs or otherwise.

 

[arihant]

@PakShaheen. - If you are saying about 100s of Gujarat, then you must admit 2 Million BD killed by Pak Military and it consist large no. of Hindu.

 

[PakShaheen79]

@PakShaheen. - If you are saying about 100s of Gujarat, then you must admit 2 Million BD killed by Pak Military and it consist large no. of Hindu.

LoL

I am talking about Gujrat happening over and again... 1971 has happened and BD is a free state now. Now move on

 

[arihant]

LoL

I am talking about Gujrat happening over and again... 1971 has happened and BD is a free state now. Now move on

Gujarat Kand was in 2002. Should we end debate. I never want to continue wrong topics as you wish.

 

[qsaark]

@qsaark

Well ,I don't know who brainwashed you but can you please tell me which elite family Jinnah belongs to? FYI, Nawabs and Elite joined ML when it was apparent after WWII that subcontinent will have two separate states and still it is mystery where all those Nawabs went after Pakistan came into existence in 1947... I am yet to see a Nawab's familiy in Pakistani politics whihc joined ML lately to rule the masses as you depict.

Current Pakistani elite has nothing to do with leaders of ML of 1940s be it Nawabs or otherwise.

PakShaheen79 Saheb, Thanks for your reply.

It is not correct to say that the Nawab and Elites joined AIML when it was apparent after WWII that subcontinent will have two separate states. Who were Nawab Sir Khwaja Salimullah, Nawab Viqar-ul-Mulk, Sir Aga Khan, Nawab Mohsin-ul-Mulk, Nawab Sir Ziauddin Ahmed, Nawab Sir Sahibzada Abdul Qayyum, Sir Sikander Hayat Khan, Qazi Muhammad Essa, Nawabzada Liaquat Ali Khan, Huseyn Shaheed Suhrawardy, Sir Syed Wazir Hasan ?

You are telling me that all these folks were from the middle class? That all these folks joined AIML only after 1946? Whereas most of them were actually present in the All India Muhammadan Educational Conference on 30 December 1906 where a motion to form an All India Muslim League (AIML) was proceeded.

You may want to visit this link to see some of the prominent delegates present in this conference. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_India_Mumammadan_Educational_Conference

 

[PakShaheen79]

PakShaheen79 Saheb, Thanks for your reply.

It is not correct to say that the Nawab and Elites joined AIML when it was apparent after WWII that subcontinent will have two separate states. Who were Nawab Sir Khwaja Salimullah, Nawab Viqar-ul-Mulk, Sir Aga Khan, Nawab Mohsin-ul-Mulk, Nawab Sir Ziauddin Ahmed, Nawab Sir Sahibzada Abdul Qayyum, Sir Sikander Hayat Khan, Qazi Muhammad Essa, Nawabzada Liaquat Ali Khan, Huseyn Shaheed Suhrawardy, Sir Syed Wazir Hasan ?

You are telling me that all these folks were from the middle class? That all these folks joined AIML only after 1946?

OK, Now tell me Who's family or himself held any powerful position to rule the masses as you pointed in your earlier post. These Nawabs were in political circle so as no ordinary Muslims at that time could even think about the getting higher education except these. Do they all had there lands and lats here in current Pakistan? Yes some of them did but not all so why they were advocating an independent Pakistan and for your information many families were not even able to reach Pakistan after partition.So why did all these families were advocating Pakistan. Secondly these were Nawabs since centuries not that British made them Nawab and the used them.

Why didn't u answered about Quaid? Sir.

We choose name of our country in 1933 but heck India just remained India as British called it or Hindustan ........ Democracy! huh, my a**

 

[PakShaheen79]

Gujarat Kand was in 2002. Should we end debate. I never want to continue wrong topics as you wish.

yeah sure! we must move on and not bring things like 1971 in debate.

 

[PakShaheen79]

You are telling me that all these folks were from the middle class? That all these folks joined AIML only after 1946? Whereas most of them were actually present in the All India Muhammadan Educational Conference on 30 December 1906 where a motion to form an All India Muslim League (AIML) was proceeded.

You may want to visit this link to see some of the prominent delegates present in this conference. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Ind...nal_Conference

So what is the point ... Did any of these or their families held any position in Pakistan to rule on Muslim masses as you said in your post? NO.
Elite was able to educate itself at that time not ordinary Muslims, Thanks to British who destroyed Persian and Urdu in Subcontinent's educational system except in Madrassah's

 

[alirulesall123]

Good posts Ejaz and Arihant sahb

 

[asq]

@PakShaheen. - If you are saying about 100s of Gujarat, then you must admit 2 Million BD killed by Pak Military and it consist large no. of Hindu.

What a shame about Bangla Desh, you twisted story is totally false.

India conspired with Mujib and trained Mukti buhini for five years and supplied weapons and communications systems to the students and universities to attack pak. forces, what a shame.


It is India which interfered and propagated falsehood to create doubts in Bengali masses minds about why Punjabi are in Army, that Pakistan is eating their foreign exchange from Jute.

All false, let me tell you about jute, right in late sixties world had invented nylon and after it all the bags are being made from Nylon than jute.

there is more but let us see what you have to say about all this.

 

[PeaceForAll]

Pakistanis have failed so see the latest Indians psychological gimmickry in the form of Jaswant Singh’s book praising Pakistan’s founding father Quaid Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah. Pakistanis are going ballistic that a hard core Indian from BJP has spoken good and high of the Pakistani leader but fail to see the underlying sinister move in the plan. There is hue and cry against the book in India by the hard core Hindus making the book more acceptable in Pakistan to the extent that its launching would be from Islamabad in days to come.

The reality is that Jaswant has played a very subtle and sinister trick on Pakistanis projecting and promoting the hardliner and extremist Hindu agenda of creating divisions within Pakistan’s ideological and political leadership. The biggest challenge for the Indian Brahman Hindus has been to create a division between Jinnah as political leader and Allama Iqbal as an ideologue and also to debunk the idea that Jinnah wanted a separate State for Muslims in India. If the Indians can achieve this, they have scored a major psychological victory. This is what this book aims to achieve.

The theme of this book revolves around following dangerous points which destroy Pakistan’s ideological and philosophical foundations.

-Jinnah was a secular man with no Islamic ideology.

-Jinnah never wanted partition and wanted to stay in united India. It was mistake of Hindu leaders that Pakistan was created while Muslims wanted to live in united India. (Basically creating the case for re-unification of two States)

- Iqbal was a mediocre non-entity and not an ideologue with no spiritual or ideological strength for Jinnah.

-Sir Syed Ahmad Khan was a British tout and had no ideological strength to give the concept of two nation theory – which makes Muslims as a separate political and social group from Hindus.

If this ideology of Jaswant is accepted in Pakistan, then basically India would achieve the greatest victory to weaken and destroy Pakistani ideology and the “two nation” theory which became the foundation to create Pakistan as a separate State from within the Indian sub-continent. Naïve as they are, Pakistani leadership and even intellectuals are falling for the Indian trap!

Point 1 that you made) Pakistan.....failed to see the underlying sinister move in the plan



Why does everything that happens around the world have a conspiracy behind it? Is there an end to it? If he talks bad about Pak, his "real motive" is clear, if he talks good about Pak, his "real motive" is to destroy Pak. For heaven's sake, not everything is for or against Pakistan. He has written a book and on a topic that he finds interesting. If you want to read it, fine else chuck it.


your next point : Hindus making the book more acceptable in Pakistan to the extent that its launching would be from Islamabad in days to come.


Launching the book in Islamabad because hindus make it happen? Like how? Do they buy the distributors in Pakistan? or just because its "not accepted" in India, it makes Pak automatically accept it? Even if it did get launched, buying and reading that book cannot be forced by anyone. Dont buy it! simple! where does such a big conspiracy come?


point no 3 that you made: The reality is that Jaswant has played a very subtle and sinister trick on Pakistanis projecting and promoting the hardliner and extremist Hindu agenda of creating divisions within Pakistan’s ideological and political leadership.

And you got to see through the conspiracy right? The human brain sees exactly that what it wants to see and right now, you want to believe that everything that happens is against Pakistan and hence, you are "finding" conspiracies where none exist!


Finally: Any relationship to be fruitful, the basis would be "trust" and that is completely lacking between Pak and India. Maybe someday in PDF, we can talk about ways of building trust rather than people starting threads about "whats the war scenario going to be like".

I believe PDF is an excellent forum with its mix of sane minded nationalists which can play a big part in molding the idea of what India really is for Pak nationals and what Pakistan really is to Indian nationals. All I hope is conspiracy theories should not get such importance that the real motives of peace get beaten up.

Let peace prevail!

 

[MilesTogo]

In that case Pakistan should re-claim Bangladesh and take India to UN for all the wrongdoings.

What a shame about Bangla Desh, you twisted story is totally false.

India conspired with Mujib and trained Mukti buhini for five years and supplied weapons and communications systems to the students and universities to attack pak. forces, what a shame.


It is India which interfered and propagated falsehood to create doubts in Bengali masses minds about why Punjabi are in Army, that Pakistan is eating their foreign exchange from Jute.

All false, let me tell you about jute, right in late sixties world had invented nylon and after it all the bags are being made from Nylon than jute.

there is more but let us see what you have to say about all this.

 

[toxic_pus]

What a shame about Bangla Desh, you twisted story is totally false.

India conspired with Mujib and trained Mukti buhini for five years and supplied weapons and communications systems to the students and universities to attack pak. forces, what a shame.


It is India which interfered and propagated falsehood to create doubts in Bengali masses minds about why Punjabi are in Army, that Pakistan is eating their foreign exchange from Jute.

All false, let me tell you about jute, right in late sixties world had invented nylon and after it all the bags are being made from Nylon than jute.

there is more but let us see what you have to say about all this.

I guess that would make Yahya Khan and Bhutto RAW agents as well. Other than that I don't see why they refused to accept Mujibur's overwhelming victory in the elections, and thereby paving the path for ' interfering' and 'propagating falsehood to create doubts in Bengali masses minds'.

That you think that an entire nation chose to become independent, solely because of India's rumor mongering, is actually a gem of naivety. Do keep up the good work, though.

 

[EjazR]

@ EjazR

Bro you can move on with 100s of Gujrat, Babri Masjid etc. like incidents in India not we. So good luck with your stay in Maha Baharat, Wish you best of luck again.

Are bhai, what has this got to do with the topic. Besides, Im not saying you have to come and live in India or become a part of India either.

Im just explaning the reality that the partition was primarily a strategic objective of the British/US against the growing Communist threat, where Pakistan would eventually play a prominent role. It was secondary that it was politcal settlement between the major politicians at that time.
It was not a solution to the Hindu-Muslim "problem" as it was made out to be.

@qsaark

Well ,I don't know who brainwashed you but can you please tell me which elite family Jinnah belongs to? FYI, Nawabs and Elite joined ML when it was apparent after WWII that subcontinent will have two separate states and still it is mystery where all those Nawabs went after Pakistan came into existence in 1947... I am yet to see a Nawab's familiy in Pakistani politics whihc joined ML lately to rule the masses as you depict.

Current Pakistani elite has nothing to do with leaders of ML of 1940s be it Nawabs or otherwise.

Muslim League was founded by Nawabs of Bengal and Sir Aga Khan and their aim was to promote loyalty to the Crown. It was on their request that seperate electorates was offered for their benefit in Bengal in 1906. Jinnah was opposed to ML at the beginning because of their domination and joined it later only to bring it closer to Congress.

It was only later that some of the salariat (the muslims who were civil servants in the British Raj) of UP and Bihar joined the ML and gave it a mass movement flavour instead of just for the elite. The reigns were still held by those who founded the party. Hence, Nawab Liawat Ali Khan became the first PM, The Bhutto family who grand father was landlord with influential relationship with British ( and was gifted land by them ) became a permanant fixture in Pakistani politics. Infact, other than Military rulers and Nawaz Sharif, all presidents and PMs have had Nawab or Landlord background exclusing MA Jinnah.

Now we have two sets of elites, The one comprising of Nawabs and Landlords who have diversified their bussiness and are super rich, and the other is the Military elite and intelliegence establishment and those who were supported by them like the MMA parties and Nawaz Sharif (who have also grown pretty rich).

The only hope is the growing Pakistani middle class, it is only this group that can help Pakistan become stable and strong by rejecting domination of both orders. They should use the democratic setup and the numbers game to provide leadership to bring the poor masses with them and constitutinally draw up a new path for Pakistan.