Pakistani pilot Saiful Azam

[kalu_miah]

Hi,

Actually---it is not as simple as that---. Israel had more in numbers and better weapons systems. Take Mig 21 for example---its flying time only 30 minutes----Phantom on the other hand--- 4 1/2 hours---. Israel had more funtional and better tanks.

IBut then the israelis are warriors----egyptians are farmers---. Israelis are focused on their goal---arabs are clueless--.

Israelis come to fight----arabs are gutless---spineless---.

Egyptians deceived the syrians and jordan in the 73 war---egyptians lied about their goals---.

Arabs never came to fight to win the wars everytime they fought israel.

Kalu miah----israel was never backed up the americans full time---it was due to the fcuk up of the muslims all over the world and middle east specifically the americans got fed up of the arabs.

I had some older american friends---good olds white people from mid west and northern states---they hated israel and jews with a passion---.

You people are clueless how the arab / muslim world ruined its image in the u s----chopped their own hands and legs off by their shenanigans.

You should fully read the articles on US-Israel relations from the links I provided in my previous post:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...akistani-pilot-saiful-azam-4.html#post4210942

What I wonder about is this: lets say Israel was loosing the war and was close to getting annihilated, which nation would come forward to help and protect it first? I think we all know the answer to this question.

Yes, Israel was getting military hardware from France and not from US, but that's just nit picking, because they were part of same NATO after all. What if US was just not being overt about its support for Israel, just to show Arab nations that they had a neutral stance.

While I acknowledge that US policy on Israel was still evolving, but it was not to the extent that US did not know which side they were on. They knew exactly which side they were on, but were not ready to declare it to the world, just yet. When push came to shove, they went all out to save Israel's behind, as we see from the USS Liberty incident:
USS Liberty incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Israel’s Attack on the USS Liberty, Revisited » Counterpunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

The bigger question is why the US government would participate so enthusiastically in the cover-up of a war crime against its own sailors. Well, the Pentagon has never been slow to hide its own incompetence. And there’s plenty of that in the Liberty affair: bungled communications, refusal to provide an escort, situating the defenseless Liberty too close to a raging battle, the inability to intervene in the attack and the inexcusably long time it took to reach the battered ship and its wounded.

That’s par for the course. But something else was going on that would only come to light later. Through most of the 1960s, the US congress had imposed a ban on the sale of arms to both Israel and Jordan. But at the time of the Liberty attack, the Pentagon (and its allies in the White House and on the Hill) was seeking to have this proscription overturned. The top brass certainly knew that any evidence of a deliberate attack on a US Navy ship by the IDF would scuttle their plans. So they hushed it up.

In January 1968, the arms embargo on Israel was lifted and the sale of American weapons began to flow. By 1971, Israel was buying $600 million of American-made weapons a year. Two years later the purchases topped $3 billion. Almost overnight, Israel had become the largest buyer of US-made arms and aircraft.

Perversely, then, the IDF’s strike on the Liberty served to weld the US and Israel together, in a kind of political and military embrace. Now, every time the IDF attacks defenseless villages in Gaza and the West Bank with F-16s and Apache helicopters, the Palestinians quite rightly see the bloody assaults as a joint operation, with the Pentagon as a hidden partner.

Thus, does the legacy of Liberty live on, one raid after another.

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

My dear dear poster. I don't doubt your love of Pakistan and you should expect the same from me towards your country.

But this is a military kill/capture thread, so I'll be talking to you like a military man. I intend no disrespect towards you or your beloved country.

I'm not a child to be lulled. I am not even angry, I just was sarcastic as I have repeated it many times while you tend to ignore it. If you want to talk about the war as a whole then 67 war was a defeat, I agree and I said it many times before, but getting into details by comparing Israel A2A shots with Arabs A2A shots and making jokes out of it is unfair as our air forces were destroyed on the ground by surprise, yet we had no chance whatsoever to win, nor any other country after losing it's air force in 20th century.*

Before I provide specific response to you comments.


Let me state this upfront.

War is the biggest Beaaach there ever is or there ever was.

But if you have to go to war, make sure you are fully prepared and wide awake and not drunk.


then whenever the war is over, do a brutally honest-to-god analysis of the war to make sure you don't repeat the mistakes you have made.

Believe you me! It is much much much much worse to mess up the history of war than the war itself. Just think and you will know why.


OK. Onto specific response to your points.

1. That is rather boastful (read full of lies) for any Pakistani to claim that 2 or 3 pilots from Pakistan took down 25% of Israeli Planes lost in 67 war.

Don't you see it boastful? or do you?

The credit of downing 40+ Israeli planes should go to Arab ground forces or their pilots. That's the right thing to do. Unless we have authentic gun-pod camera video + voice recording of a specific Pakistani pilot for shooting an Israeli plane down, it will remain pack of lies, empty boasting.

I hope you agree with that assertion.

Regarding your input about the 3 shots and over exaggerating Pakistanies achievements, I do admire that honesty and courage from you,
*

2. the job of the airforce is to be in the fing air, and not sleeping on the ground. off course a plane cannot be in the air forever. So when the planes are on the ground, there is something called fing radar system that are coupled with scout planes, reconnaissance planes, and what not.

What is the fing purpose of reconnaissance.

Now please do not come to a defense forum and give me a sorry excuse that ENTIRE Arab airforce (600+ planes) was caught with its pants down. Not possible. There was massive coverup and ordinary Arab just lapped up that $hitty story.

Here you are getting into details, however, no airforce can stand such an overwhelming airstrike by surprise, 416 Arab jets were destroyed as a result. Israeli jets flew on low altitudes to evade Egyptian radars and came from the Mediterranean sea (from the back) which was unexpected. Assuming that an air force is fully operational and armed flying in the sky in other than war time is just gullible. Nevertheless, I say it again it was a defeat.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Regarding your input about the 3 shots and over exaggerating Pakistanies achievements, I do admire that honesty and courage from you,

Well thank you.

This "courage" is a must for a true military (fauj) Historian

Here you are getting into details, however, no airforce can stand such an overwhelming airstrike by surprise, 416 Arab jets were destroyed as a result. Israeli jets flew on low altitudes to evade Egyptian radars and came from the Mediterranean sea (from the back) which was unexpected. Assuming that an air force is fully operational and armed flying in the sky in other than war time is just gullible. Nevertheless, I say it again it was a defeat.

This is where we disagree.

Israeli attack was no surprise.


Egypt in particular and Arabs in generals had been beating war drums for the previous many months.

It was Egypt who asked for the removal of UN observers.

It was Egypt who blockaded the strait of Tiran, massed troops in Sinai BEFORE Israeli air attack.

Syria and Jordan were allowing PLO to launch attacks from their areas.


This is why I say that anyone who claims Israel just suddenly attack, doesn't have a clue or perhaps doesn't care, about unbiased military history.


peace

 

[Slayer786]

Higher military officer was involved? may be. may be not. So far it is just a constipated conspiracy theory.

But the only one who lowered his pants on national TV was namak haram Qadeer khan.

The only one our brother islamist countries pointed their dirty fingres to was namak harama Qadeen khan

So please do not do aaanyeen baaanyeen shaanyeen.

If Qadree wasn't corrupt, even a low level smuggler could have been used by the so-called military officers.

No Siree bob,

namak haram Qadeer khan was in it for money. And he got caught by CIA, thanks to Libyan brother Gaddah (donkey)-fi, and Ayatullahs of Iran.


But all this is besides the point.

Israel and the whole fing world knew Qadeer was involved in smuggling nukies, and yet Pakistani government never documented any Israeli plan for attacking Pakistan. Not a single fing bit.

Even though top Pakistani scientist was invovled in arming sworn enemies of Israel.


this is why I say the whole thread here is a pack of lies and constipated conspiracy theories.


But I doubt you will understand.


peace to you my man peace to you

Well okay as you have written it, then it must be true. We dont need any facts, just your words are enough.

 

[FaujHistorian]

^^Slayer786 dear.

This thing was all over the mainstream news and TV channels.

Gadda (donkey)-fi handed over all his nukie toys to CIA while pointing his finger to namaka haram qadeer Khan
Iranian Ayatullah /president did the same


Please go check this out yourself.


Peace

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

^^Slayer786 dear.

This thing was all over the mainstream news and TV channels.

Gadda (donkey)-fi handed over all his nukie toys to CIA while pointing his finger to namaka haram qadeer Khan
Iranian Ayatullah /president did the same


Please go check this out yourself.


Peace

Thanks for history lesson.

 

[Slayer786]

Amazingly many people still believe that that was the truth.LOL.
Goes to show the power of the media which manipulates our minds.

 

[Elia Sameen]

Thankyou so much for this thread.

 

[MastanKhan]

Tiny Israel is backed up by very big US of A, as Israel is the 51st state, in fact more than that. Israeli (AIPAC) control of US congress (House of Representatives) is a well established fact. So Israel was never tiny and never will be tiny. It will always be beyond the scope of any Muslim or Arab nations or groups of these nations to attack and win against Israel, today and for the foreseeable future.

Hi,

Actually israel had more capable front line aircraft and tanks available to them than both egypt and syrian military put together.

 

[MastanKhan]

I'm not a child to be lulled. I am not even angry, I just was sarcastic as I have repeated it many times while you tend to ignore it. If you want to talk about the war as a whole then 67 war was a defeat, I agree and I said it many times before, but getting into details by comparing Israel A2A shots with Arabs A2A shots and making jokes out of it is unfair as our air forces were destroyed on the ground by surprise, yet we had no chance whatsoever to win, nor any other country after losing it's air force in 20th century.*


Hi,

It becomes pretty simple----if you don't have the legs to stay afloat---you will die a miserable death---the MIG21 could hardly fly for a 1/2 hour---where as the loiter time for an F4 phantom was around 3 1/2 to 4 hours.

But over all---the display by the egyptian and syrian air force pilots was beyond pathetic.

 

[PAKISTAN ARMY 12]

TO TURBO CHARGED Brother this faujhistorian is an indian false flagger thts y he is kissing israels dirty AMERICAN PROTECTED A$$ bc these INDIANS hve singed strategic nd defence partnership with israel INDIA BUYS 1 BILLION DOLLARS worth of ISRAELI WEAPONS every year thts y this false flagging indian faujhistorian disguising as a PAKISTANI is kissing israeli dirty little AMERICAN PROTECTED A$$. Brother these INDIANS nd JEWS r the biggest false flaggers of the world.

 

[PAKISTAN ARMY 12]

TO BLACKEAGLE Brother this faujhistorian is an indian false flagger disguising as a pakistani thts y he is kissing israels dirty AMERICAN PROTECTED A$$. These INDIANS ND JEWS r the biggest false flaggers of the world.

 

[JAISH AL MUKHTAR 2]

Thank YOU PAKISTAN AND PAKISTAN ARMED FORCES FROM SYRIA.

 

[EastBengalPro]

Saiful azam is very much sick. Admitted in Apollo hospital ICU. Please pray for him

 

[LuCiFeR_DeCoY]

Saiful Azam

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1966376370150816