Featured Pakistani Navy confirms Brazilian jetliner will replace Orion patrol aircraft

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Sea Sultan is very unique, daring and I would say a high risk program. PN took this approach partly due to limited options available to it. When Indians purchased the P8s they paid for a turn key project, the aircraft, the systems, maintenance, training, manuals, basically the whole works. Although the platform and the systems for Sea Sultan are off the shelf but integrating all these elements together in an effective manner is still a massive undertaking. A number of countries have done it with smaller aircrafts like ATR or CASA but not with a big jets. Further operating a fleet of 10 jets of the size of the Embraer is almost like running a small airline. The program should followed closely and I wish PN all the success in this endeavor. If successful, it will give Pakistan some unique capabilities. Nothing wrong with leveraging services of foreign companies like RAS, but this project is big enough for such companies to set up shop in Pakistan. Maybe a partnership with the new MRO facility being set up by PAC at the new Islamabad airport.

IMO ... if the PN succeeds, then I think we'll see an AEW&C version of the Lineage 1000E/E190 next. Basically, combine a leading class Chinese radar and sensor suite to an efficient airliner airframe @SQ8

 

[SQ8]

IMO ... if the PN succeeds, then I think we'll see an AEW&C version of the Lineage 1000E/E190 next. Basically, combine a leading class Chinese radar and sensor suite to an efficient airliner airframe @SQ8

It is possible and makes a lot of sense to promote airframe commonality- it is the smart thing to do and would benefit even more if at whatever point PIA had some resurgence to go for the same.

 

[Windjammer]

 

[Akh1112]

IMO ... if the PN succeeds, then I think we'll see an AEW&C version of the Lineage 1000E/E190 next. Basically, combine a leading class Chinese radar and sensor suite to an efficient airliner airframe @SQ8

I'd be thinking more along the lines of something like Erieye-ER, it has the massive benefit of being super flexible when it comes to the aircraft its being operated with. Has the ability to transmit on different datalinks simultaneously.

View attachment 748930

Ignore anything from PSF if you want credible stuff. There isnt anything inherently wrong with this, im just talking in general. Anyway, they have just taken the ATR-72MPA and ported everything over onto the SS.

 

[Waterboy]

leading class Chinese radar and sensor suite

Why not something from saab or turkey? Chinese equipment is just okayy

 

[Ali_Baba]

IMO ... if the PN succeeds, then I think we'll see an AEW&C version of the Lineage 1000E/E190 next. Basically, combine a leading class Chinese radar and sensor suite to an efficient airliner airframe @SQ8

I would agree that the Erieye-ER on the Lineage 1000E/E190 makes alot of sense - and maybe PAF can do the installation inhouse ( they are buying kits from SAAB and installing them inhouse on Sab-2000 in Pakistan right now ).

They would have to work with Brazil/Embraer to get the changes certified when done in Pakistan.

 

[Tamiyah]

I'd be thinking more along the lines of something like Erieye-ER, it has the massive benefit of being super flexible when it comes to the aircraft its being operated with. Has the ability to transmit on different datalinks simultaneously.

Ignore anything from PSF if you want credible stuff. There isnt anything inherently wrong with this, im just talking in general. Anyway, they have just taken the ATR-72MPA and ported everything over onto the SS.

Not sure about your experience but someone in that forum told me all the upgrades Jf-17 Blk3 was getting a whole year ago and all of his remarks were damn true. So I personally trust that person.

 

[Akh1112]

Not sure about your experience but someone in that forum told me all the upgrades Jf-17 Blk3 was getting a whole year ago and all of his remarks were damn true. So I personally trust that person.

The PAF also told us what upgrades the block 3 was getting back in 2016/17 :p

 

[khanasifm]

View attachment 748930

Is this official ?

It’s should also have external pylons on fuselage and wings for anti ship and surface attacks

 

[White Lion]

They should've called the ATR-72 'Sea Hawk/Osprey' and left 'Sea Eagle' to the Embraer.

Clearly, someone didn't expect the PN to get a LRMPA Lol.

Instead, we got #PakistanInaNutshell

View attachment 682945

TBH the name Sea Sultan does not seem to be right choice but lets translate it in Urdu it means King of the Sea or Sea King. So Pakistan Navy has only changed King for Sultan.

IMHO the name is not adequate for the role PN MPA. If I (Civilian) was given a choice by PN to name the new MPA it would have been based on the role it has to serve for the people of Pakistan.

The role PN wants with MPA is of a Protector and defender no matter which ever direction the enemy tries to attack. The right name in my opinion would be:
NAUSAYBAH.
Do not know if this name can be selected by PN but this is the ideal name.

If you want to research on the name and why it is ideal in my opinion.
Nusayba b. Ka‘b al-Anṣārīyya (d. 634). Also known as Umm ‘Ammara, she was a member of the Banū Najjār tribe and one of the earliest converts to Islam in Medina. As a Companion of the Prophet Muhammad, there were many virtues attributed to her. She is most remembered, however, for taking part in the Battle of Uhud (625), in which she carried sword and shield and fought against the Meccans. She shielded the Prophet Muhammad from enemies during the battle and even sustained several lance wounds and arrows as she cast herself in front of him to protect him. It is said that after she sustained her twelfth wound, she fell unconscious and the first question she asked when she awoke (a day later in Medina) was “did the Prophet survive?” a testament to her loyalty and commitment to the new faith.

15 Important Muslim Women in History

This post, the first of several on the topic, intends to highlight the various contributions of Muslim women throughout medieval and early modern history. While many people may be familiar with the…

ballandalus.wordpress.com

Sure, but not when you are in the process of creating a brand new system on a platform with which it has never been done. They have to cut a weapons bay, integrate radar, acoustic sensors, underwing harpoints and numerous other electronics into a platform which wasnt designed with that in mind and make it all work well. You let the companies with experience start the project, share the cost and risk and when you see it is possible and successful, import the work back home. Have your engineers and technicians assist in the project to grow the home based capability. That is first steps. You didnt go from no experience to a Pakistan putting out a flying JF-17 with an AESA radar. You sources the work to a partner with knowhow and experience, developing and fostering experience in your engineers and know are starting project azm.

PAF was able to retrofit C130 with bombay doors during 1965 war then how come today it can not be done.

SAMAA ENGLISH: Latest Breaking News, Videos, In-depth Reports from Pakistan, World

English language website for SAMAA TV. Comprehensive coverage of Pakistan, breaking news stories and analysis on current affairs, business, sports, entertainment and around-the-world stories

www.samaa.tv

Hope you know that PAC did restore one of its damaged Saab 2000 that was declared as total loss by the manufacturer. Later the manufacturer was so impressed by the work carried out by PAC that they officially acknowledged.
https://quwa.org/2017/09/22/pakistan-air-force-officials-outline-erieye-aewc-recovery-process/

Embracer li

Pakistan get the best bang for buck if it can properly utilised what it intent for . India is paying 300 million per aircraft for their last 6
P-8I posedion .
As Embracer lineage 1000 has almost same. Dimension as P-8 posedion how much anti ship & anti submarines weapons it can carry any idea ? Can it carry the same amount of sonar bouy missile mine as p-8 ?

PN would like to reduce the cost by at least 1/3rd of what India paid for P-8I.

With a aircraft that size should be able to carry 4 external missiles plus anything they can fit in a weapons bay.

Much will depend on how we strengthen airframe and cut open the bottom to install an internal bay.


This is very exciting as this will be the only jet LRMPA other then P-8. Others may follow lead here, especially nations that do not want to alternative to US products like Turkey, Egypt, Malaysia and Myanmar

Internal bay is a must, however my mind was thinking if a stealth weapons pod could be designed which could carry more weapons on external hard points with lower drag so that loiter time may not be compromised.

It'll depend on the extent of the modifications. If it's limited to attaching hardpoints and integrating sub-systems (i.e., the likeliest scenario, but the most conservative), then I think we probably could acquire the know-how and carry it out at PAC. However, if it involves cutting parts of the airframe (like the P8 program), then I can see that getting really complex and high-cost for us to do alone in Pakistan.

IMHO I'd rather we do the conservative option, even if it means the equivalent capability of 10 comes through 12-14 planes (due to decreased torpedo payload, for example). I'd also like to see us get an AEW&C variant. Imagine the Erieye-ER plus a GMTI/SAR on this aircraft. Plenty of room onboard for HMIs to cover air and surface C4ISR.

IMO the cost would still be lower in the long run specially after the initiative of aviation city. Moreover PAC wanted to build commercial aircraft, An agreement has also been signed with China for Turbo Props. Perhaps Embraer could potentially become the supplier of regional gets with PAC.

Pakistan’s PAC and AVIC Sign Agreement to Co-Produce Chinese Commercial Aircraft - Quwa

Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) signed an agreement with the Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC) to “co-produce” the latter’s commercial aircraft.

quwa.org

Looks like its a used jet flown by a Chinese firm before. Here is it in Mar without the PN insignia.

Guanghui Group operated this aircraft.

http://en.guanghui.com/page-25.html

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

TBH the name Sea Sultan does not seem to be right choice but lets translate it in Urdu it means King of the Sea or Sea King. So Pakistan Navy has only changed King for Sultan.

IMHO the name is not adequate for the role PN MPA. If I (Civilian) was given a choice by PN to name the new MPA it would have been based on the role it has to serve for the people of Pakistan.

The role PN wants with MPA is of a Protector and defender no matter which ever direction the enemy tries to attack. The right name in my opinion would be:
NAUSAYBAH.
Do not know if this name can be selected by PN but this is the ideal name.

If you want to research on the name and why it is ideal in my opinion.
Nusayba b. Ka‘b al-Anṣārīyya (d. 634). Also known as Umm ‘Ammara, she was a member of the Banū Najjār tribe and one of the earliest converts to Islam in Medina. As a Companion of the Prophet Muhammad, there were many virtues attributed to her. She is most remembered, however, for taking part in the Battle of Uhud (625), in which she carried sword and shield and fought against the Meccans. She shielded the Prophet Muhammad from enemies during the battle and even sustained several lance wounds and arrows as she cast herself in front of him to protect him. It is said that after she sustained her twelfth wound, she fell unconscious and the first question she asked when she awoke (a day later in Medina) was “did the Prophet survive?” a testament to her loyalty and commitment to the new faith.

15 Important Muslim Women in History

This post, the first of several on the topic, intends to highlight the various contributions of Muslim women throughout medieval and early modern history. While many people may be familiar with the…

ballandalus.wordpress.com

PAF was able to retrofit C130 with bombay doors during 1965 war then how come today it can not be done.

SAMAA ENGLISH: Latest Breaking News, Videos, In-depth Reports from Pakistan, World

English language website for SAMAA TV. Comprehensive coverage of Pakistan, breaking news stories and analysis on current affairs, business, sports, entertainment and around-the-world stories

www.samaa.tv

Hope you know that PAC did restore one of its damaged Saab 2000 that was declared as total loss by the manufacturer. Later the manufacturer was so impressed by the work carried out by PAC that they officially acknowledged.
https://quwa.org/2017/09/22/pakistan-air-force-officials-outline-erieye-aewc-recovery-process/


PN would like to reduce the cost by at least 1/3rd of what India paid for P-8I.


Internal bay is a must, however my mind was thinking if a stealth weapons pod could be designed which could carry more weapons on external hard points with lower drag so that loiter time may not be compromised.


IMO the cost would still be lower in the long run specially after the initiative of aviation city. Moreover PAC wanted to build commercial aircraft, An agreement has also been signed with China for Turbo Props. Perhaps Embraer could potentially become the supplier of regional gets with PAC.

Pakistan’s PAC and AVIC Sign Agreement to Co-Produce Chinese Commercial Aircraft - Quwa

Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) signed an agreement with the Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC) to “co-produce” the latter’s commercial aircraft.

quwa.org

Guanghui Group operated this aircraft.

http://en.guanghui.com/page-25.html

IMO the name of the LRMPA should've been Mako or Orca. The names of Sahaba RA can be reserved for various warships.

 

[Bossman]

IMO the name of the LRMPA should've been Mako or Orca. The names of Sahaba RA can be reserved for various warships.

The names of Sahaba should not be used for ships. Ships sink.

I think naming ships after Pakistani tribes will be great but will be controversial. I would love to see PNS Afridi or PNS Bugti or PNS Mazari or PNS Jatoi.

 

[White Lion]

IMO the name of the LRMPA should've been Mako or Orca. The names of Sahaba RA can be reserved for various warships.

Fair enough.

What about the other proposal regarding PAC and stealth weapons pod?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

The names of Sahaba should not be used for ships. Ships sink.

I think naming ships after Pakistani tribes will be great but will be controversial. I would love to see PNS Afridi or PNS Bugti or PNS Mazari or PNS Jatoi.

Or we stick to cities, provinces, rivers, etc, and maybe expand to synonyms for bravery (e.g., shuja, bahadur, etc) and other concepts.

 

[SQ8]

Or we stick to cities, provinces, rivers, etc, and maybe expand to synonyms for bravery (e.g., shuja, bahadur, etc) and other concepts.

The obsession with western naming conventions wont go away anytime soon.
There were plenty of names available otherwise which would reflect the local history such as naming it after Adm Afzal who led in 65 or Adm Ahsan