Pakistani Naval Modernization Appears Stalled

[khanasifm]

The True Perspective: Shocking facts about Pakistani income taxpayers

 

[Mitro]

What if in future Chinese navy station in gwadar it will be interesting .

 

[Zarvan]

this so called analyst forgot turkey.
the milgem/f100 and the f2000 can be aquired by pakistan
the milgem corvette does not have a vls launcher but the f100 frigate varient does have a vls launcher
below is an milgem corvette

Milgem class corvettes and 8 of them are needed to go after enemy ships and submarines. 8 F-22 P and 8 Milgem Corvettes are must than our focus should be on 4 Frigate for Air Defence and 4 Destroyers for attacking and doing offensive war.

 

[Pindi Boy]

The True Perspective: Shocking facts about Pakistani income taxpayers

Did you even read the thread title??? Why you peoples are so dumb???

 

[Maarkhoor]

No need to worry Pakistan always find creative way to counter Indian conventional advantage when time is suitable suddenly they will test fire Naval version of nuclear Babur from submarine. Even small modification in Tariq class frigate will enable it to fire even existing in production Babur.

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

Naval modernisation is not a weekend affair. It goes through many phases, which take a pretty long time, especially when the resources are limited.

Planning, evaluation, selection, procurement/construction, induction, trainings, it all takes time.
The Chinese Subs are presently in the 4th phase,
FACs are also in the same process.
FFGs are in the 2nd phase.

A Lot of modifications are also keep under the wraps, which are disclosed at the opportune time.

 

[alimobin memon]

Stupid thread article whatever. Nothing is stalled the FAC are in constructions, Subs are too and improved f22p's are coming no matter what. The increase in sea area for Pakistan wont just go useless. Many more FAC are coming the problem only is that Pakistan has one shipyard construction working which is busy with 16200 ton whooping big *** ship for fleet tankers and FAC. One dock is always free for any emergency repairs or overhaul.

People should be thankful that Pakistan is now more than ever it was equipped before we always had used vessels atleast now new are coming and the size has increased to previous. No matter what ratio is now b.w india and pakistan one must realise the ships that india is inducting are not to attack pakistan but due to its big area of sea and china like foes in case of war the true Indian offensive would be no more than 1/3rd of its size against pakistan navy which Pakistan navy can easily defend against if not defeat them. with jf17 and its naval aviation we are equipped good.

we now hai shore battery missiles too.

My dear fellows we have Strategic weapons too so there is no way india will ever be equipped to defeat a country with strategic weapons. accept the fact the nuclear power countries are never gonna see the conventional bloody wars anymore

 

[CHI RULES]

In case of a big adversary u can't destroy ur enemy, the magic is to keep enough capability so in case of any encounter u may be able to offer extreme losses to ur adversary. We should follow the example of Iran. Though they have vintage frigates yet Iran is relying on small size subs and FACs catramen style with stealth and high speeds.Iran navy has launched large number of FACs which with barrage of home grown ASHMs can easily give unbearbale damage to any big enemy. Further even their vintage frigates/destroyers have capable ASHMs and domestic Air defences.

It is a point to note that many experts suggesting OHPS for Pak navy. Instead of old OHPs why not we should go for few Type 54s of Chinese origin along with even further up gradation of our Type 21s with more modern radars. We may also go for strengthening of their structure. Further Pak should also go for construction of large number of FACs bench marking Catramen features along with stealth features.
PN should check availbility of 300KM range CX01 Chinese ASHM which perhaps may be also used for land attacks. Similarly PN should arm already obtained OHP with HQ9 and long range ASHMs/ Anti sub Missiles with capable passive sonars. The one missing link is perhaps limited Radar ranges installed on PN ships. They should be based on at least Pesa tech with anti stealth sensors.

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

Pakistani Naval Modernization Appears Stalled
By Usman Ansari1:27 a.m. EST January 15, 2016
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ISLAMABAD — Pakistan's naval modernization program appears stalled, with no discernible progress being made on efforts to modernize and expand the surface and sub-surface fleet. This comes amid moves ensure the security of the deepwater port of Gwadar, and fears of mass obsolescence vis-a-vis arch rival India.

Gwadar is the start of the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) to link western China to the Middle East and Africa through Pakistan. It will carry commercial goods and energy resources, slashing the time to ship goods to China via the Malacca Straits and South China Sea.

For Pakistan, ensuring maritime security has been of increased concern. Earlier this month, a newly raised battalion of Marines began protecting Gwadar. Author, analyst, and former Australian defense attache to Islamabad Brian Cloughley says this was probably through extra enlistments due to the Marines "already being stretched in commitments."

Ensuring Gwadar's defense has been the theme of recent exercises. A domestic series of drills, Seapark, was held in November and December.

A series of recent bilateral exercises with China's Navy have also been held, the third of which concluded on Tuesday off the Pakistani coast.

It aimed to protect sea lines of communication and the CPEC by improving coordination and interoperability at operational and tactical levels. Chinese ships consisted of two Type-054A frigates (Liuzhou and Sanya) and a replenishment ship (Qinghaihu).

Pakistan participated with warships, helicopters, patrol and fighter aircraft, plus special forces. Air defense, boarding, communication, and joint maneuver drills were carried out.

However, the need to ensure seaward defense of Gwadar has exposed the apparent lack of progress in the Navy's modernization program. The frontline fleet currently consists of three Agosta-90B/Khalid and two Agosta-70 submarines, plus four F-22P/Zulfiquar, one Oliver Hazard Perry, and five ex-British Type-21/Amazon class frigates.

Pakistan has negotiated the purchase of eight AIP-equipped submarines from China, finalizing the deal in October. This was reportedly followed by a domestic frigate and fast attack boat-building program with Chinese assistance.

This latter program was also to include upgrades to the current F-22P class frigates, Pakistan's most modern and capable surface ships even though they are only marginally better than the remaining frigates in being able to protect themselves from missile attack.

Cloughley believes time is running out.

"It seems that the emphasis for the moment is on developing the submarine arm of the Navy, but it is essential for Pakistan's security that it acquire more surface ships, and that a decision on number and type be made this year."

Nothing has as of yet been signed however and despite request for clarification by Defense News there has been no official word on any progress or the programs' status.

This pales in comparison to India, which is fast modernizing and expanding its naval power.

Sam Bateman, an adviser for the Maritime Security Programme at S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies in Singapore, said, "Pakistan has already fallen far behind India in terms of maintaining a level of conventional deterrent/operational effectiveness, and is at risk of falling even further behind."

Bateman, who previously served in Australia's Navy outlines a course of action similar to the stalled modernization program.

"In broad terms, the [Pakistan Navy] has three requirements: frigates, submarines and fast attack craft," he said.

"Looking at its current force structure, my priority for force development would be submarines," he said. "The existing submarine fleet is far short of being an adequate or credible deterrent force. The deterrent value of submarines, as well as their utility for covert surveillance and intelligence collection operations, points to the importance of the [Pakistan Navy] building a credible force."

Therefore Pakistan's "top priority" must be to finalize the submarine deal with China.

Though much emphasis by analysts has been on the state of Pakistan's frigate force Bateman believes the next priority should lie with fast attack craft.

"In a conflict situation, these would be the major surface assets of the [Pakistan Navy]."

Pakistan is currently building further examples of the Azmat class stealthy fast attack craft, but has is believed to be considering something more potent.

News of Pakistan's interest in the Chinese Type-022 'Houbei' was first reported in June. Speaking at the time, Tom Waldwyn of the International Institute for Strategic Studies expressed surprise.

"It would be surprising if Pakistan, or indeed any country, signed a deal to purchase new Type-022s as China stopped production of these vessels several years ago. So any purchase of Type-022s would almost certainly be secondhand vessels," he said.

Adding, "These types of vessels are more suited to littoral environments where they can attack opposing ships at high speed and fire off a barrage of anti-ship missiles. If Pakistan were to acquire these ships that is likely to be how they would be employed."

The state of the frigates has attracted most attention however.

"The current frigate force is just adequate for the [Pakistan Navy's] peacetime requirements, notably sovereignty protection and participation in international coalition and peacekeeping missions, such as the counter-piracy task forces in the Gulf region", said Bateman.

Ideally, he believes two to three further Perry class frigates would help matters "to build up its frigate force to about eight vessels, if the updated F-22P vessels can't be acquired quickly."

However, entrenched hostility toward Pakistan in the US Congress essentially rules this out, and Cloughley believes Pakistan has no real alternatives.

"China is the obvious supplier, as it is unlikely that the US Congress would approve transfer of any surplus vessels, and in any event the US and European countries are concentrating on India as regards provision of military material."

As for the Type-21 class frigates they are essentially obsolete and Bateman says they "should be scrapped."

Modernization of Pakistan's airpower however could help mitigate some of the Navy's shortcomings, especially with the JF-17 Thunder now entering service.

"The JF-17 can carry anti-ship missiles, and it is probable that when the present aircraft of 8 Squadron at Masroor are retired, then they will be replaced by a maritime strike version of the JF-17", said Cloughley.

The JF-17 already equips No. 2 Squadron also based at Masroor, and can carry a brace of C-802A/CSS-N-8 Saccade anti-ship missiles.

You think we're getting to get a couple dozen submarines, frigates and missile boats within a day? No; it'll take years - ALOT of years.

 

[ANMDT]

will ther be a pump jet variant? if so it would be a slightly small vairiant of the freedom class lcs. also is the hull a monohull or all steel?

I dont give possibility for waterjet propulsion in such large ships for Turkish navy. But heard some about hybrid electric-diesel which lays a long time after now.
Its monohull , like freedoom class, all steel with composite coatings in some parts.

this so called analyst forgot turkey.
the milgem/f100 and the f2000 can be aquired by pakistan
the milgem corvette does not have a vls launcher but the f100 frigate varient does have a vls launcher
below is an milgem corvette

Milgem can be modified upon a serious request. I dont see some hardship to utilize a VLS on 8-16 cells on milgem. Just some remakes, removal and add new rooms. Takes 6 monts redesign at most.

 

[Blue Marlin]

I dont give possibility for waterjet propulsion in such large ships for Turkish navy. But heard some about hybrid electric-diesel which lays a long time after now.
Its monohull , like freedoom class, all steel with composite coatings in some parts.


Milgem can be modified upon a serious request. I dont see some hardship to utilize a VLS on 8-16 cells on milgem. Just some remakes, removal and add new rooms. Takes 6 monts redesign at most.

what about it's speed it not as fast as a freedom class or independance class lcs. when will the f100 be launched?
also is there possibilities it being a codlag or cogog/codog. basically somthing with a turbine propelled or electric motor?

 

[cloud4000]

guys our navy would become capable by just around 10 frigates (good ones not f22p like type 54a would be better) and 2 destroyers around 500 million each) and fac around 20
while we gonna have around 14 capable subs in next few years so no need for subs
and yeah we have enough auxiliary vessels projects so even no need for these vessel
and it would be a surplus if we buy a aircraft carrier not big one only around 20,000 to 30,000 ton would be enough as planes 36 jf 17 would be equipped in 2018-19
so just if we calc the price
it would be
frigates $3.4 billion (as each cost 340 million plus discount might be given
destroyer 1 billion
fac 1.7 billion (assuming 90 million each although each cost around 80-90 million)
so totals comes out to be around 6 billion dollars and that to can be afforded in 3 years
and would make our navy alot capable

Pakistan getting an aircraft carrier? And manned with JF-17s? JF-17 is not designed for carrier operations. You will need a whole different aircraft type for carrier operations.

Ideally, he believes two to three further Perry class frigates would help matters "to build up its frigate force to about eight vessels, if the updated F-22P vessels can't be acquired quickly."

However, entrenched hostility toward Pakistan in the US Congress essentially rules this out, and Cloughley believes Pakistan has no real alternatives.

"China is the obvious supplier, as it is unlikely that the US Congress would approve transfer of any surplus vessels, and in any event the US and European countries are concentrating on India as regards provision of military material."

US Congress will only sell weapons to Pakistan that pertain to war on terror and operations against militants in KPK and FATA. Frigates do not enter into this equation.

 

[Super Falcon]

These old rusted people should be given retired

 

[Imran Khan]

Pakistan getting an aircraft carrier? And manned with JF-17s? JF-17 is not designed for carrier operations. You will need a whole different aircraft type for carrier operations.



US Congress will only sell weapons to Pakistan that pertain to war on terror and operations against militants in KPK and FATA. Frigates do not enter into this equation.

where these toys work in anti terror?

which terrorist airforce have to fight with aim-120 amraam missiles?

hundreds of harpoon missiles for alqaida?

thousands of tow missiles for ?

where you fit this

in fact pakistan used thousands of us made weapons and you guys need to learn that pakistan is a free country and purchased from dozens of countries and also sale to dozens of countries .

a simple look here
List of aircraft of the Pakistan Air Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

List of active Pakistan Navy ships - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Equipment of the Pakistan Army - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[ANMDT]

B

what about it's speed it not as fast as a freedom class or independance class lcs. when will the f100 be launched?
also is there possibilities it being a codlag or cogog/codog. basically somthing with a turbine propelled or electric motor?

It doesnt have same speed as LCS because their missons are different, ada class is corvette and others are littoral combat ship.

Its Codag in ada class, İ class might be cogag . It will come in service around 2022-2023