Pakistani laws prohibiting underage marriage un-Islamic: CII

[Secur]

let be honest here we all have natural sexual desires after we reach teh age of puberty and i dont want to discuss in detail but western dont even need marriage because they allow even young teens to have fun with each others with mutual consent..look at britian youngest dad or mother..

Lets be honest that the West's comparison is of little use in our scenario . We at least marry whilst a lot of people in your countries will not , they will rather keep Girlfriends or Domestic partners . Ironically , we are the first ones to compare yourselves with West despite cursing and abusing it all day long when these issues arise . Normally , people living in urban areas in Pakistan marry soon after completing their bachelors . An optimum age of 21-25 . I do not expect little immature kids to make rational and free decisions . They will surely accept whatever their parents want for them without knowing the " marriage " thing .

Something like this here .

Married off for 'honour': Pakistan's child brides - DAWN.COM
MADYAN: One sunny afternoon as she skipped home from school, Saneeda was accosted by her estranged father, who wanted to marry her to a man she'd never met to settle a debt of "honour". She was five years old.

Pakistan: “Families Marry their Sons to the Young Girls to Gain a Child Servant” | FrontPage Magazine
Aisha, 18: “I got married when I was just 10. “At the time of the marriage, my husband was a school student, just 16 years old.
“The marriage was arranged by family, it was not a forced marriage – but I was a little girl at the time, I did not know the meaning of marriage and accepted it because I did not know any better. My husband was really harsh with me because of the fact that I did not know what a marriage was, and what the duties of a wife were. “He wanted a sexual relationship but I did not even know what that was at the time, and so he started beating me to get it. “My hand was fractured, and also my eyes suffered injuries and were severely affected from the beatings. Very early on in the marriage, I fell pregnant twice. Both children died due to my extremely young age. This is a tradition here in my village (in the Bannu district). Most females get married at 10-12 years old.

IRIN Asia | PAKISTAN: Child marriages on the rise across rural Sindh | Pakistan | Children | Human Rights
Khairpur, 31 March 2006 (IRIN) - In the small, dusty city of Khairpur, in Pakistan’s southern province of Sindh, with its bazaars selling the hand-spun, embroidered cloth typical of the region, as well as the dates grown widely in the area, Sumera, 11, is in high spirits. But in the next room, Sumera’s mother, Kalsoom Begum, is in a more sombre mood. The mother of six children, five of them daughters, is visibly upset at seeing her eldest child married off so early. There are also other reasons for her sadness. Though Sumera does not yet know this, the man she is about to marry is 45 years old, nearly four times her own age. He has paid Sumera’s father the equivalent of US $4,237 for her hand. “She is only a little girl. She knows nothing of what marriage is all about or the relations with her husband that will come with it,” Kalsoom explained.

Asia, 15, who was married off three years ago, is now back at her parents’ home, near Khairpur, with her two small children. Her mother, Dilshad Bibi, told IRIN the girl, sold off by her father to a 30-year-old man as his second wife, had been “treated like a slave”, raped, tortured and then kicked out of her husband’s home after he took a still younger girl as his third wife.

Meanwhile, Sumera, continues to playfully finger the bright, sequined shirt and skirt that she will wear on her wedding day, laying out the bangles that match it. For her, the entire event is little more than a child’s game. But she has yet to know how the game will end.

Today the law to prevent this from happening is in place , imagine the situation afterwards when its not there . The country is to be modest , lets just say , f*** up . Unfortunately , people's mind signs off as soon as they see the word " Islam " anywhere , rest I can see here .

well i ll not link it with those lusty rich or bearded baboons. The way i see it it will help our youth to gain sense of responsibility and will stop them from that uncuth behavior.

Come out of the ideal world and step into reality first of all . Its not as naive as you think here . You are over optimistic and looking only at the bright side .

sure sexual maturity

That is somehow enough for the marriage to happen , you think ? Possibly psychological maturity is just as important as the physical one ? No ?

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

If we read surah 65 about talaq it tells about waiting for iddah and also about her menstruation....meaning a woman cant be divorced if she is not married and if she is having periods meaning she has to at least have reached puberty...another place it can literally be translated as her womb is ready for child bearing which happens at puberty but safer a little after that....lke 18-25 (fertile age even Western scholars will tell you the same)

Why we are talking about irrelevant things? just answer this question according to your understanding of Islam when a Muslim girl/boy can marry? Would we say prophet Muhammad(PBUH) married with under age girl then? we should not twist Islam according to our own desire or like/dislike .

 

[Dubious]

Why we are talking about irrelevant things? just answer this question according to your understanding of Islam when a Muslim girl/boy can marry? Would we say prophet Muhammad(PBUH) married with under age girl then? we should not twist Islam according to our own desire or like/dislike .

How did I twist Islam? By showing what the Quran states?

 

[Secur]

Why we are talking about irrelevant things? just answer this question according to your understanding of Islam when a Muslim girl/boy can marry? Would we say prophet Muhammad(PBUH) married with under age girl then? we should not twist Islam according to our own desire or like/dislike .

Hazrat Ayesha wasn't exactly nine years of age when she was married . There are better traditions/versions of hadith for her age in the same collections . Whatever was made permissible for Prophet wasn't necessarily true for the rest of the Muslims too , the Prophet took more than four wives , what about lifting the ban on it too ? The deen-e-fitrat can do a lot better if its followers learn to interpret it with respect to time and era seriously .

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Come out of the ideal world and step into reality first of all . Its not as naive as you think here . You are over optimistic and looking only at the bright side .

one needs to look in the bright side in order to make things work isnt it? Optimism is still better then opposite i guess.

Anyways let the law implement then we will be in a better position to judge.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

That is somehow enough for the marriage to happen , you think ? Possibly psychological maturity is just as important as the physical one ? No ?

Again its not my criteria dude.I have very much same personal opinion as most of you but we are talking about criteria of Islam . What would you say about young wives of prophet Muhammad(PBUH)? Would he(PBUH) or his companions did something which din't make sense or is not civilized? We should know that Prophet(PBUH) and most of his early companions married with girls under 18 before rejecting such marriage as illegal

 

[Secur]

one needs to look in the bright side in order to make things work isnt it? Optimism is still better then opposite i guess.

No , one needs to look if the benefits of a drug outweigh its side effects by a margin needed to properly justify its prescription . That law isn't going to be amended , because the Parliament will vote for it and the bill will be sure , to fail there . The Prime minister cant amend laws by himself , guess you should learn how democrazy works .

 

[Informant]

Why we are talking about irrelevant things? just answer this question according to your understanding of Islam when a Muslim girl/boy can marry? Would we say prophet Muhammad(PBUH) married with under age girl then? we should not twist Islam according to our own desire or like/dislike .

The fact is the word 'Tis'ah' in Arabic was used for numbers 9, 19, 69/7. But if the Prophet did marry a 9 year old and consumed at the age of puberty, it is still underage by todays standards. Would you marry off your 12 year old girls to a very pious man? I doubt it. A 12 year maybe sexually productive but her frame of mind is not at all ready to be a wife much less a being a mother.

Times change and customs change, Ali (RAA) saying is to raise your children with tides of time. Not like the times we were raised in. And frankly this marriage issue is something I have an issue with in Islam. The puberty is not enough. MEntal maturity is more important and that comes with time and age. Not puberty.

@Talon What would your opinion be as a woman?

Aite guys I'm off. RabRakha.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

No , one needs to look if the benefits of a drug outweigh its side effects by a margin needed to properly justify its prescription . That law isn't going to be amended , because the Parliament will vote for it and the bill will be sure , to fail there . The Prime minister cant amend laws by himself , guess you should learn how democrazy works .

yaar like i said let it come and we will see afterwards. If it doesnt come good for u and if comes we will see that comes out of it and how. Relax.

 

[Secur]

Again its not my criteria dude.I have very much same personal opinion as most of you but we are talking about criteria of Islam . What would you say about young wives of prophet Muhammad(PBUH)? Would he(PBUH) or his companions do something which don't make sense or is not civilized? We should know that Prophet(PBUH) and most of his early companions married with girls under 18 before rejecting such marriage as illegal

Do you posses a free and critical thinking mind ? If the answer is yes , then the religion never forbade you to review things according to your judgement and mental capability . This is pure madness , that is how the masses are manipulated because they blindly accept things as Islamic and hence going against them incurs the wrath of God for them somehow . How many young wives did the Prophet have ? What about his companions ? There's strong evidence on the contrary that Hazrat Ayesha's age wasn't nine years as is popularly believed . Is the old religious opinion , the only opinion you have ? Or is there a thing present in the same religion to make laws according to That time ?

Check the links that I posted above , the law is there to prevent it yet what is happening is more than clear , just lift the prohibition and see the wonders .

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

Hazrat Ayesha wasn't exactly nine years of age when she was married . There are better traditions/versions of hadith for her age in the same collections . Whatever was made permissible for Prophet wasn't necessarily true for the rest of the Muslims too , the Prophet took more than four wives , what about lifting the ban on it too ? The deen-e-fitrat can do a lot better if its followers learn to interpret it with respect to time and era seriously .

so what was the age of hadrat Aisha(R.A) ? Many of his companions also married with girls under 18 not just him and they also married wth widows 10 or 12 years more than their age.

Do you posses a free and critical thinking mind ? If the answer is yes , then the religion never forbade you to review things according to your judgement and mental capability . This is pure madness , that is how the masses are manipulated because they blindly accept things as Islamic and hence going against them incurs the wrath of God for them somehow . How many young wives did the Prophet have ? What about his companions ? There's strong evidence on the contrary that Hazrat Ayesha's age wasn't nine years as is popularly believed . Is the old religious opinion , the only opinion you have ? Or is there a thing present in the same religion to make laws according to That time ?

Check the links that I posted above , the law is there to prevent it yet what is happening is more than clear , just lift the prohibition and see the wonders .

If you want to be critical on Islam or Islamic ruling then go ahead but beliefs are beliefs ..either take it or leave it..Critical thinkers don't believe in angels, hooors or life after death or any such things which cannot be prove with logic or rational thinking

I am done

 

[Secur]

so what was the age of hadrat Aisha(R.A) ? Many of his companions also married with girls under 18 not just him and they also married wth widows 10 or 12 years more than their age.

The problem there is maturity , were the girls mature enough psychologically ? Did they understand what was marriage ? Or were they merely wed off because they had reached puberty ? Try for some common sense .

AYESHA AGE THE MYTH OF  A PROVERBIAL WEDDING EXPOSED

Of Aisha’s age at marriage - DAWN.COM
This piece of misinformation has led to the wrong view that child marriage has the sanction of Islam. It must be noted that establishing the authenticity of hadiths, the narrators’ circumstances and the conditions at that time have to be correlated with historical facts. There is only one hadith by Hisham which suggests the age of Hazrat Aisha as being nine when she came to live with her husband.

Many authentic hadiths also show that Hisham’s narration is incongruous with several historical facts about the Prophet’s life, on which there is consensus. With reference to scholars such as Umar Ahmed Usmani, Hakim Niaz Ahmed and Habibur Rehman Kandhulvi, I would like to present some arguments in favour of the fact that Hazrat Aisha was at least 18 years old when her nikah was performed and at least 21 when she moved into the Prophet’s house to live with him.

According to Umar Ahmed Usmani, in Surah Al-Nisa, it is said that the guardian of the orphans should keep testing them, until they reach the age of marriage, before returning their property (4:6). From this scholars have concluded that the Quran sets a minimum age of marriage which is at least puberty. Since the approval of the girl has a legal standing, she cannot be a minor.

Hisham bin Urwah is the main narrator of this hadith. His life is divided into two periods: in 131A.H. the Madani period ended, and the Iraqi period started, when Hisham was 71 years old. Hafiz Zehbi has spoken about Hisham’s loss of memory in his later period. His students in Madina, Imam Malik and Imam Abu Hanifah, do not mention this hadith. Imam Malik and the people of Madina criticised him for his Iraqi hadiths.

All the narrators of this hadith are Iraqis who had heard it from Hisham. Allama Kandhulvi says that the words spoken in connection with Hazrat Aisha’s age were tissa ashara, meaning 19, when Hisham only heard (or remembered), tissa, meaning nine. Maulana Usmani thinks this change was purposely and maliciously made later.

Historian Ibn Ishaq in his Sirat Rasul Allah has given a list of the people who accepted Islam in the first year of the proclamation of Islam, in which Hazrat Aisha’s name is mentioned as Abu Bakr’s “little daughter Aisha”. If we accept Hisham’s calculations, she was not even born at that time.

Some time after the death of the Prophet’s first wife, Hazrat Khadija, Khawla suggested to the Prophet that he get married again, to a bikrun, referring to Hazrat Aisha (Musnad Ahmed). In Arabic bikrun is used for an unmarried girl who has crossed the age of puberty and is of marriageable age. The word cannot be used for a six-year-old girl.

Some scholars think that Hazrat Aisha was married off so early because in Arabia girls mature at an early age. But this was not a common custom of the Arabs at that time. According to Allama Kandhulvi, there is no such case on record either before or after Islam. Neither has this ever been promoted as a Sunnah of the Prophet. The Prophet married off his daughters Fatima at 21 and Ruquiyya at 23. Besides, Hazrat Abu Bakr, Aisha’s father, married off his eldest daughter Asma at the age of 26.

Hazrat Aisha narrates that she was present on the battlefield at the Battle of Badar (Muslim). This leads one to conclude that Hazrat Aisha moved into the Prophet’s house in 1 A.H. But a nine-year-old could not have been taken on a rough and risky military mission.

Hazrat Aisha used the kunniat, the title derived from the name of a child, of Umme Abdullah after her nephew and adopted son. If she was six when her nikah was performed, she would have been only eight years his senior, hardly making him eligible for adoption. Also, a little girl could not have given up on ever having her own child and used an adopted child’s name for her kunniat.

Hazrat Aisha’s nephew Urwah once remarked that he was not surprised about her amazing knowledge of Islamic law, poetry and history because she was the wife of the Prophet and the daughter of Abu Bakr. If she was eight when her father migrated, when did she learn poetry and history from him?

There is consensus that Hazrat Aisha was 10 years younger than her elder sister Asma, whose age at the time of the hijrah, or migration to Madina, was about 28. It can be concluded that Hazrat Aisha was about 18 years old at migration. On her moving to the Prophet’s house, she was a young woman at 21. Hisham is the single narrator of the hadith whose authenticity is challenged, for it does not correlate with the many historical facts of the time.

The writer is a scholar of the Quran and writes on contemporary issues.

 

[Dubious]

The fact is the word 'Tis'ah' in Arabic was used for numbers 9, 19, 69/7. But if the Prophet did marry a 9 year old and consumed at the age of puberty, it is still underage by todays standards. Would you marry off your 12 year old girls to a very pious man? I doubt it. A 12 year maybe sexually productive but her frame of mind is not at all ready to be a wife much less a being a mother.

Times change and customs change, Ali (RAA) saying is to raise your children with tides of time. Not like the times we were raised in. And frankly this marriage issue is something I have an issue with in Islam. The puberty is not enough. MEntal maturity is more important and that comes with time and age. Not puberty.

@Talon What would your opinion be as a woman?

Aite guys I'm off. RabRakha.

1stly, not every 9 yr old attains puberty...there is a range some say it can be as early as 7 (read in the news 1 case so far of 7yr old becoming a mom then again could be hoax as it was more like a tabloid) but 9 (is confirmed that some can have it at 9) and it can go as late as 16 (very few mostly in the West they start at 13 hence prob why they see 9 as absurd)

But marriage is not really a game..it comes with responsibilities heck men in todays world run from that word and some want 9 yr old to carry the burden? Its absurd!!

Her body may be child bearing but the psychology that comes with caring for the child when she herself is a child is not right...

As for Hadrat Aisha...well, back then we also have heard of 9 yr old Queens soo I guess mental maturity has decreased exponentially! From a 9yr old inventor/ ruler to a 9yr old bimbo in today's world is not comparable!

You can even look at medieval girls:

he youngest queen consort was Isabella of Valois, second wife of Richard II, aged 6 years 11 months and 25 days when she became queen in 1396.

The youngest monarch to marry was David II, who married Joan, daughter of Edward II when he was 4 years, 134 days old in 1328.

The youngest female monarch at the time of her marriage was Mary II, who was 15 years, 188 days old when she married William III in 1677.

The youngest queen consort was Isabella of Valois, who married Richard II when she was 6 years, 358 days old in 1396.

I dont hear anyone fainting over these marriages as much as they do over Hadrat Aisha R.A...

That was quoted to show the mental age of back then....

In todays world a 6 yr old only wants an Ipad...a 15 yr old just wants to be Miss popular at school....soo I doubt they have the maturity of handling a husband let alone a baby growing inside them...followed by delivery and all....no matter how "modern" medicine is delivery is still something that is not only painful but dangerous!

Well for all we know the translators might put it puberty but like I have shown you above there have been young women married, young women warriors hack we even have 21 yr old Samina baig climbing Everest... so if nurtured properly yes but not practical in todays society!

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

The problem there is maturity , were the girls mature enough psychologically ? Did they understand what was marriage ? Or were they merely wed off because they had reached puberty ? Try for some common sense .

You are taking pain for nothing? Can you say all people gain mental maturity at same age? Is mental maturity depend on age? Can a 30 year old uneducated villager who never went outside his village more mature than say educated 16 year old boy ? You are also forgetting the role of parent in Islamic marriage when you are thinking about marriage of 16 year old girl. I never said its compulsory to marry at early age but its allowed as per Islamic ruling. We can moan about it. we can say it dont make sense. we can say its illegal , we can say its child marriage etc but it would not make any difference . Its not just this thing but nowdays Muslim get defensive about everything whether its sharia, Hijab or any islamic ruling

 

[Secur]

You are taking pain for nothing? Can you say all people gain mental maturity at same age? Is mental maturity depend on age? Can a 30 year old uneducated villager who never went outside his village more mature than say educated 16 year old boy ? You are also forgetting the role of parent in Islamic marriage when you are thinking about marriage of 16 year old girl. I never said its compulsory to marry at early age but its allowed as per Islamic ruling. We can moan about it. we can say it dont make sense. we can say its illegal , we can say its child marriage etc but it would not make any difference . Its not just this thing but nowdays Muslim get defensive about everything whether its sharia, Hijab or any islamic ruling

No , I am really starting to believe that people stop thinking with their own mind when they see the " Islam " or " Islamic " word by seeing the responses here , if that is the case with the educated lot , God save the uneducated ones honestly . There's no one age at which one attains mental maturity required for marriage but there's no doubt that even the most modest scientific estimates exceed far beyond adolescence , a legal age whilst not being accurate of course has to be defined , since otherwise it would be chaotic and open for misuse and exploitation , as it is today in Pakistan despite the law in place . What you are forgetting that such little children aren't making their own free choices , they are merely endorsing the one from their parents . They do not even know the marriage thing and the responsibilities that come with it . There's no need to moan about it but rather use common sense and the free thinking faculties granted by the same God . Change is constant , there's no need to remain stuck in old times forever . The requirements of today's world are vastly different than that of the past .

@Talon Do you have time ? Come on Gmail .