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Pakistani-Americans Rising Strength in Academia

here i saw a news as below, by Forbes,

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Indian Americans: The New Model Minority

The 2008 election barely ended before the GOP began touting the presidential prospects of Louisiana Gov. Piyush "Bobby" Jindal, the son of Indian immigrants. Tuesday, Jindal becomes the new face of his party when he delivers the official Republican response to President Obama's speech to Congress. Whether or not he actually runs for president in 2012, Jindal symbolizes a remarkable but rarely discussed phenomenon--the amazing success of Indian Americans in general, and what that success says about our immigration policy.

Most Americans know only one thing about Indians--they are really good at spelling bees. When Sameer Mishra correctly spelled guerdon last May to win the 2008 Scripps National Spelling Bee, he became the sixth Indian-American winner in the past 10 years. Finishing second was Sidharth Chand. Kavya Shivashankar took fourth place, and Janhnavi Iyer grabbed the eighth spot. And this was not even the banner year for Indian Americans--in 2005, the top four finishers were all of Indian descent.

It's tempting to dismiss Indian-American dominance of the spelling bee as just a cultural idiosyncrasy. But Indian success in more important fields is just as eye-catching. Despite constituting less than 1% of the U.S. population, Indian-Americans are 3% of the nation's engineers, 7% of its IT workers and 8% of its physicians and surgeons. The overrepresentation of Indians in these fields is striking--in practical terms, your doctor is nine times more likely to be an Indian-American than is a random passerby on the street.

Indian Americans are in fact a new "model minority." This term dates back to the 1960s, when East Asians--Americans of Chinese, Japanese and Korean descent--were noted for their advanced educations and high earnings.

East Asians continue to excel in the U.S, but among minority groups, Indians are clearly the latest and greatest "model." In 2007, the median income of households headed by an Indian American was approximately $83,000, compared with $61,000 for East Asians and $55,000 for whites.

About 69% of Indian Americans age 25 and over have four-year college degrees, which dwarfs the rates of 51% and 30% achieved by East Asians and whites, respectively. Indian Americans are also less likely to be poor or in prison, compared with whites.

So why do Indian Americans perform so well? A natural answer is self-selection. Someone willing to pull up roots and move halfway around the world will tend to be more ambitious and hardworking than the average person. But people want to come to the U.S. for many reasons, some of which--being reunited with other family members, for example--have little to do with industriousness. Ultimately, immigration policy decides which kinds of qualities our immigrants possess.

Under our current immigration policy, a majority of legal immigrants to the U.S. obtain green cards (permanent residency) because they have family ties to U.S. citizens, but a small number (15% in 2007) are selected specifically for their labor market value. The proportion of Indian immigrants given an employment-related green card is one of the highest of any nationality. Consequently, it is mainly India's educated elite and their families who come to the U.S.

The success of Indian Americans is also often ascribed to the culture they bring with them, which places strong--some would even say obsessive--emphasis on academic achievement. Exhibit A is the spelling bee, which requires long hours studying etymology and memorizing word lists, all for little expected benefit other than the thrill of intellectual competition.

But education and culture can take people only so far. To be a great speller--or, more importantly, a great doctor or IT manager--you have to be smart. Just how smart are Indian Americans? We don't know with much certainty. Most data sets with information on ethnic groups do not include IQ scores, and the few that do rarely include enough cases to provide interpretable results for such a small portion of the population.

The only direct evidence we have comes from the 2003 New Immigrant Survey, in which a basic cognitive test called "digit span" was administered to a sample of newly arrived immigrant children. It is an excellent test for comparing people with disparate language and educational backgrounds, since the test taker need only repeat lengthening sequences of digits read by the examiner. Repeating the digits forward is simply a test of short-term memory, but repeating them backward is much more mentally taxing, hence a rough measure of intelligence.

When statistical adjustments are used to convert the backward digit span results to full-scale IQ scores, Indian Americans place at about 112 on a bell-shaped IQ distribution, with white Americans at 100. 112 is the 79th percentile of the white distribution. For more context, consider that Ashkenazi Jews are a famously intelligent ethnic group, and their mean IQ is somewhere around 110.

Given the small sample size, the rough IQ measure and the lack of corroborating data sets, this finding of lofty Indian-American intelligence must be taken cautiously. Nevertheless, it is entirely consistent with their observed achievement.

The superior educational attainment, academic culture and likely high IQ of Indian Americans has already made them an economic force in the U.S., and that strength can only grow. Does this continuing success imply they will become a political force? Here, Gov. Jindal is actually a rarity. Indians are still underrepresented in politics, and they do not specialize in the kinds of fields (law and finance) most conducive to political careers. Time will tell if they are able to convert economic power into serious political influence, as a Jindal presidency could.

A much clearer implication of Indian-American success is that immigrants need not be unskilled, nor must their economic integration take generations to achieve. In sharp contrast to Indian Americans, most U.S. immigrants, especially Mexican, are much less wealthy and educated than U.S. natives, even after many years in the country.

A new immigration policy that prioritizes skills over family reunification could bring more successful immigrants to the U.S. By emphasizing education, work experience and IQ in our immigration policy, immigrant groups from other national backgrounds could join the list of model minorities.

There is nothing inevitable about immigration. Who immigrates each year is a policy decision, free to be modified at any time by Congress. Constructing new legislation is always difficult, but I propose a simple starting point for immigration selection: Anyone who can spell guerdon is in!

Jason Richwine is a National Research Initiative fellow at the American Enterprise Institute in Washington.

Indian Americans: The New Model Minority (forbes.com)
 
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I find this hard to believe that US corporations are hiring people with "7 or 8 figure" salaries from India and


I mean anyone can spew anything here in the pages of PDF, but this is news for me.

First of all - I believe you have little clue about hiring practices at the US corporate executive level being from India. They don't hire based on Indian "body shop" rules.

American Executive search firms hire based on referrals and very strict "club" rules. You can be any Indian chump with a 4.0 GPA, doesn't mean jack squat in the US. You have no experience and no pedigree - no jobs for you, besides you are also "brown". People from India are mostly darker brown than those from Bangladesh or Pakistani middle and upper middle class.

I think you Indians have started on this "pie in the sky" dreaming of late, comparing yourselves to whites too often.

No American executive search firms search for Indian talent direct from India. American companies think jack squat about IIT's and IIM's. Stay in India if you need sponsorships, no one sponsors H1B's anymore.

Without even having a decade of service in corporate ranks in US companies - even most Harvard, Yale and MIT grads don't get to these level of salaries and you're talking IIT and IIM.

Indian rules don't play in the US.

@RiazHaq bhai - I have never heard of this - maybe you can shed some light? Have you heard of this in Silicon Valley?
DM me for proof.. I know many who is making these much money. Route they take is little different. Either they are literal transfer from India to USA for same employer. There are 1000s of them. Others came to USA on H1B or L1 visa via Indian companies and then changed job or applied for L1 to H1B after finding local employers. They are also 1000s of them
 
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I love how Pakistanis give zero f's and we see more Indians on this thread than Pakistanis for some reason😂😂 (on top of that it's a Pakistani forum so that makes it extra weird)

I'm afraid I kinda have to to agree with you there. You have your mess to sort out and we have ours albeit a tad bit less than yours .. We are sworn enemies and there is some honor in that.

It's your piss poor lungi brethren from the eastern border who cause the most amount of commotion for no particular reason.

I bet Indira in hindsight would have probably apologized to Yahya for our part in the Bangladesh war. They should have rightly remained under your boots and learned some damn manners.
 
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I'm afraid I kinda have to to agree with you there. You have your mess to sort out and we have ours albeit a tad bit less than yours .. We are sworn enemies and there is some honor in that.

It's your piss poor lungi brethren from the eastern border who cause the most amount of commotion for no particular reason.

I bet Indira in hindsight would have probably apologized to Yahya for our part in the Bangladesh war. They should have rightly remained under your boots and learned some damn manners.
giphy (11).gif

Bangladeshis don't use human suffering/kidnapped prostitutes from neighboring countries for cheap internet point scoring
This low class behavior is only expected from Indians
So I don't it's appropriate for you to talk about manners after indulging in such degenerate behavior
 
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View attachment 960683
Bangladeshis don't use human suffering/kidnapped prostitutes from neighboring countries for cheap internet point scoring
This low class behavior is only expected from Indians
So I don't it's appropriate for you talk about manners after indulging in such degenerate behavior
I didn't start with the videos and pictures mate .. I posted stats your lungi brethren posted pics.

You don't debate a troll .. you troll him back. Something I learnt from PDF over the last 20 odd years ..
 
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I find this hard to believe that US corporations are hiring people with "7 or 8 figure" salaries from India
These are not starting salaries, but 7 and 8 figure salaries are common in hedge funds, VC and PE firms, investment banks, strategy consulting firms and Silicon Valley tech companies. People in their 20s can get paid over 1 mn USD and people in their 30s over 10 mn USD in these companies if they can produce the revenue to justify it.

No American executive search firms search for Indian talent direct from India. American companies think jack squat about IIT's and IIM's. Stay in India if you need sponsorships, no one sponsors H1B's anymore.
You are completely clueless. People out of school are not hired by executive search firms but through campus placements. Many top tier US companies regularly hire from the top IITs and IIMs and they obviously have to sponsor H1B visas to bring those people into the US. IIT and IIM alumi who joined these companies starting decades ago are now in senior executive positions in the industry and know about the quality of students.
 
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These are not starting salaries, but 7 and 8 figure salaries are common in hedge funds, VC and PE firms, investment banks, strategy consulting firms and Silicon Valley tech companies. People in their 20s can get paid over 1 mn USD and people in their 30s over 10 mn USD in these companies if they can produce the revenue to justify it.


You are completely clueless. People out of school are not hired by executive search firms but through campus placements. Many top tier US companies regularly hire from the top IITs and IIMs and they obviously have to sponsor H1B visas to bring those people into the US. IIT and IIM alumi who joined these companies starting decades ago are now in senior executive positions in the industry and know about the quality of students.

Bull$hit of the highest order. :laugh:

Head-bobbing IIM students talking "mouthfuls-of-marble" talk and hired out of Indian campus and given H1B visas to join companies in the US bypassing American graduates - and that too with One zillion trillion US dolla a year packages. :lol:

IIM and IIT grads stay in India or maybe to other Asian or Middle East cities, as simple as that.

Even Pichai and Nadella could not pull this off circumventing US immigration laws. :rofl:

Bhakt morons and their fanciful delusions and lies.

I've had enough. You are hereby ignored.
 
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DM me for proof.. I know many who is making these much money. Route they take is little different. Either they are literal transfer from India to USA for same employer. There are 1000s of them. Others came to USA on H1B or L1 visa via Indian companies and then changed job or applied for L1 to H1B after finding local employers. They are also 1000s of them

What DM and what proof?

Go apply for a US job and in 99.99% of the time they will ask you if you will need a H1B sponsoring after they hire you.

If you say yes - automatic rejection. If you lie and say no - then automatic rejection too after they ask to see your US passport or Green Card and you can't produce one.

I don't know how you heard people have circumvented this in the past - it cannot be done any more.

No one can, regardless of high or low level job.

These are incontrovertible US immigration policies.

@saif, @Homo Sapiens, @X-ray Papa and @Destranator bhais look at some of these Indian chest-puffers and their behavior.
 
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here i saw a news as below, by Forbes,

=>
Indian Americans: The New Model Minority

The 2008 election barely ended before the GOP began touting the presidential prospects of Louisiana Gov. Piyush "Bobby" Jindal, the son of Indian immigrants. Tuesday, Jindal becomes the new face of his party when he delivers the official Republican response to President Obama's speech to Congress. Whether or not he actually runs for president in 2012, Jindal symbolizes a remarkable but rarely discussed phenomenon--the amazing success of Indian Americans in general, and what that success says about our immigration policy.

Most Americans know only one thing about Indians--they are really good at spelling bees. When Sameer Mishra correctly spelled guerdon last May to win the 2008 Scripps National Spelling Bee, he became the sixth Indian-American winner in the past 10 years. Finishing second was Sidharth Chand. Kavya Shivashankar took fourth place, and Janhnavi Iyer grabbed the eighth spot. And this was not even the banner year for Indian Americans--in 2005, the top four finishers were all of Indian descent.

It's tempting to dismiss Indian-American dominance of the spelling bee as just a cultural idiosyncrasy. But Indian success in more important fields is just as eye-catching. Despite constituting less than 1% of the U.S. population, Indian-Americans are 3% of the nation's engineers, 7% of its IT workers and 8% of its physicians and surgeons. The overrepresentation of Indians in these fields is striking--in practical terms, your doctor is nine times more likely to be an Indian-American than is a random passerby on the street.

Indian Americans are in fact a new "model minority." This term dates back to the 1960s, when East Asians--Americans of Chinese, Japanese and Korean descent--were noted for their advanced educations and high earnings.

East Asians continue to excel in the U.S, but among minority groups, Indians are clearly the latest and greatest "model." In 2007, the median income of households headed by an Indian American was approximately $83,000, compared with $61,000 for East Asians and $55,000 for whites.

About 69% of Indian Americans age 25 and over have four-year college degrees, which dwarfs the rates of 51% and 30% achieved by East Asians and whites, respectively. Indian Americans are also less likely to be poor or in prison, compared with whites.

So why do Indian Americans perform so well? A natural answer is self-selection. Someone willing to pull up roots and move halfway around the world will tend to be more ambitious and hardworking than the average person. But people want to come to the U.S. for many reasons, some of which--being reunited with other family members, for example--have little to do with industriousness. Ultimately, immigration policy decides which kinds of qualities our immigrants possess.

Under our current immigration policy, a majority of legal immigrants to the U.S. obtain green cards (permanent residency) because they have family ties to U.S. citizens, but a small number (15% in 2007) are selected specifically for their labor market value. The proportion of Indian immigrants given an employment-related green card is one of the highest of any nationality. Consequently, it is mainly India's educated elite and their families who come to the U.S.

The success of Indian Americans is also often ascribed to the culture they bring with them, which places strong--some would even say obsessive--emphasis on academic achievement. Exhibit A is the spelling bee, which requires long hours studying etymology and memorizing word lists, all for little expected benefit other than the thrill of intellectual competition.

But education and culture can take people only so far. To be a great speller--or, more importantly, a great doctor or IT manager--you have to be smart. Just how smart are Indian Americans? We don't know with much certainty. Most data sets with information on ethnic groups do not include IQ scores, and the few that do rarely include enough cases to provide interpretable results for such a small portion of the population.

The only direct evidence we have comes from the 2003 New Immigrant Survey, in which a basic cognitive test called "digit span" was administered to a sample of newly arrived immigrant children. It is an excellent test for comparing people with disparate language and educational backgrounds, since the test taker need only repeat lengthening sequences of digits read by the examiner. Repeating the digits forward is simply a test of short-term memory, but repeating them backward is much more mentally taxing, hence a rough measure of intelligence.

When statistical adjustments are used to convert the backward digit span results to full-scale IQ scores, Indian Americans place at about 112 on a bell-shaped IQ distribution, with white Americans at 100. 112 is the 79th percentile of the white distribution. For more context, consider that Ashkenazi Jews are a famously intelligent ethnic group, and their mean IQ is somewhere around 110.

Given the small sample size, the rough IQ measure and the lack of corroborating data sets, this finding of lofty Indian-American intelligence must be taken cautiously. Nevertheless, it is entirely consistent with their observed achievement.

The superior educational attainment, academic culture and likely high IQ of Indian Americans has already made them an economic force in the U.S., and that strength can only grow. Does this continuing success imply they will become a political force? Here, Gov. Jindal is actually a rarity. Indians are still underrepresented in politics, and they do not specialize in the kinds of fields (law and finance) most conducive to political careers. Time will tell if they are able to convert economic power into serious political influence, as a Jindal presidency could.

A much clearer implication of Indian-American success is that immigrants need not be unskilled, nor must their economic integration take generations to achieve. In sharp contrast to Indian Americans, most U.S. immigrants, especially Mexican, are much less wealthy and educated than U.S. natives, even after many years in the country.

A new immigration policy that prioritizes skills over family reunification could bring more successful immigrants to the U.S. By emphasizing education, work experience and IQ in our immigration policy, immigrant groups from other national backgrounds could join the list of model minorities.

There is nothing inevitable about immigration. Who immigrates each year is a policy decision, free to be modified at any time by Congress. Constructing new legislation is always difficult, but I propose a simple starting point for immigration selection: Anyone who can spell guerdon is in!

Jason Richwine is a National Research Initiative fellow at the American Enterprise Institute in Washington.

Indian Americans: The New Model Minority (forbes.com)

Thanks for the article - but the premise that Indians are somehow MORE talented than Bangladeshis or Pakistanis (at the same educational and economic level) is false.

There are child prodigies from Pakistan and Bangladesh too - if Indians had them they'd go ballistic.





Higher talent is not exclusive to India, it belongs to all immigrant groups (even outside South Asia, such as SE Asia and east Asia). Talent is a by-product of effort and having educated parents. Pakistanis and Bangladeshis have just as many educated parents as Indians do. Ditto with Chinese/Korean and Japanese folks.

A few kids winning spelling bees does not amount to squat except being mildly amusing to score kiddie points.

Just because some white man/woman wrote something praising Indians about talent (having small sampling surveys) or of course "Kalki Ganja Sharma" of WION also doesn't mean squat.

I don't get why Indians are so not confident about themselves that they have to have validation from goras to feel good. Peculiar behavior only from Indians. Just acknowledge what India and Indians are already, for real.

Indians are obsessively self-congratulatory in this regard, to the point that it has become a butt-of-jokes meme (with Apu and the like).
 
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Head-bobbing IIM students talking "mouthfuls-of-marble" talk and hired out of Indian campus and given H1B visas to join companies in the US bypassing American graduates - and that too with One zillion trillion US dolla a year packages. :lol:
Wow, you must be really ignorant. Wall Street firms and Consulting firms have been regular visitors to IIM ( Ahmedabad, Bangalore and Calcutta) campuses since at least the 1990s. Tech firms have also regularly hire from campus. You must be living in some hole if you don't know this.

Fresh graduates obviously don't get paid zillion trillion dollar packages. They are paid the standard starting salaries, but in some fielda compensation can grow very quickly for those who are successful and people are paid based on revenue generation and not tenure. Obviously, these are high-stress jobs and those who cant produce get pushed out.
 
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Thanks for the article - but the premise that Indians are somehow MORE talented than Bangladeshis or Pakistanis (at the same educational and economic level) is false.

There are child prodigies from Pakistan and Bangladesh too - if Indians had them they'd go ballistic.





Higher talent is not exclusive to India, it belongs to all immigrant groups (even outside South Asia, such as SE Asia and east Asia). Talent is a by-product of effort and having educated parents. Pakistanis and Bangladeshis have just as many educated parents as Indians do. Ditto with Chinese/Korean and Japanese folks.

A few kids winning spelling bees does not amount to squat except being mildly amusing to score kiddie points.

Just because some white woman wrote something praising Indians about talent (having small sampling surveys) or of course "Kalki Ganja Sharma" of WION also doesn't mean squat.

I don't get why Indians are so not confident about themselves that they have to have validation from goras to feel good. Peculiar behavior only from Indians.

Indians are obsessively self-congratulatory in this regard, to the point that it has become a butt-of-jokes meme (with Apu and the like).

here we have a news as below, now South Asians are as many as East Asians and Southeast Asians in USA :enjoy:

Ancestry By Country Region[edit]​

AncestryPopulation
2022[91][90]
South Asians6,268,769
East Asians6,258,943
Southeast Asians7,780,461

 
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What DM and what proof?

Go apply for a US job and in 99.99% of the time they will ask you if you will need a H1B sponsoring after they hire you.

If you say yes - automatic rejection. If you lie and say no - then automatic rejection too after they ask to see your US passport or Green Card and you can't produce one.

I don't know how you heard people have circumvented this in the past - it cannot be done any more.

No one can, regardless of high or low level job.

These are incontrovertible US immigration policies.

@saif, @Homo Sapiens, @X-ray Papa and @Destranator bhais look at some of these Indian chest-puffers and their behavior.

Dude please stop talking because the more you speak about immigration and H1B, I am convinced your best effort at a degree is a Uber permit.

You need to understand how outsourcing works. All of the FAANG and several other fortune 500 companies have offices including research offices in India. It is so prevalent that you name me a US company and I can show you where they are located in India. These companies hire directly from top Indian universities and move them to USA either on H1-B or L1-A visas.

Below is a well summarized post on Linked in with links to IRS and USCIS on how this is possible.


You are a frustrated soul with immense hate towards HIndus. I have called out your hate and the Jihad you wage against Hinduism many times. In this very thread you mock our beloved God Hanuman. You are a low life and nobody can change that. I feel sorry that your bangladeshi culture is so perverse and intolerant. Learn to respect others and you can always search on Google or use chat GPT if you don't know something. Arguments can be made without calling out other people's religion.

Lastly, this is a thread about Pakistanis doing well in the US. As an Indian, I see that all around me -- not to the same scale as Indians but successful Pakistanis are everywhere. Bangladeshis have a long way to go but going by your culture, I don't see that happening. You are an example of why you cant speak for your own country when it comes to academic or intellectual ability and achievement.
 
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What DM and what proof?

Go apply for a US job and in 99.99% of the time they will ask you if you will need a H1B sponsoring after they hire you.

If you say yes - automatic rejection. If you lie and say no - then automatic rejection too after they ask to see your US passport or Green Card and you can't produce one.

I don't know how you heard people have circumvented this in the past - it cannot be done any more.

No one can, regardless of high or low level job.

These are incontrovertible US immigration policies.

@saif, @Homo Sapiens, @X-ray Papa and @Destranator bhais look at some of these Indian chest-puffers and their behavior.
Where I am saying , they are coming without work visa? My response was to your comments about making 6 and 7 figures salary without US degree. Most of H1B visa holder does not have US education and many of them are in Meta, Google and Microsoft and many high paying positions. Plus H1B is not only one way to come it.. read about L1 visa. Not quota on that and Indian companies and and many American companies has used it to bring ppl from India. There is no chest thumping, just a fact and yes Indian companies are in forefront to bring Indian ppl to USA for employment
 
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I love how Pakistanis give zero f's and we see more Indians on this thread than Pakistanis for some reason😂😂 (on top of that it's a Pakistani forum so that makes it extra weird)

This - like 95% of all other threads discussed by Indians in PDF, is to trumpet Indian talent and achievements (often at the expense of Bangladeshi and Pakistani achievements). As implausible and loony as that proposition is - some Indians are trying to parrot it often enough to the belief that "a lie told a thousand times becomes the truth".
 
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