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Pakistani-Americans Rising Strength in Academia

Indian people have first mover advantage. Also people in Fiji, Guyana and other british colonial empire were mostly slave labour.

I was referring your quote about British Empired 'enslaved' these Fijians etc, and took those slaves to Australian continent and to North America.
now, when we find Indian Labors were 'cheaper' than British Labors, since when???? since 1820, when Maratha empire fallen?.......

first how much British labors were worth for labor cost upto 1820? till the fall of Maratha empire which helped them having first hand hold over empire. as below.
means, until Western Labors were 'cheaper' than Indians, how they brought these slaves? at least upto 1890+, Western Labors were 'cheaper' than Indian subcontinent one. :-)

look, you Westerners were so poor upto 1820, and things were nearly richer people in India upto 1890+ etc. and Industrial revolution during WW1 and WW2, ...
we find, British labors were cheaper than Indian Onces during British's most of time of presence in India, upto 1890+....

=> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maratha_Empire#History

Maratha Empire​

During the final and Third Anglo-Maratha war (1817-19), the British achieved widespread success in their military endeavours. They successfully removed the Peshwa from power,


GovernmentAbsolute monarchy (1674–1731)
Federal oligarchy with a restricted monarchial figurehead (1731–1818)

Ultimately, the Third Anglo-Maratha War (1817–1818) resulted in the loss of Maratha independence. It left the British in control of most of the Indian subcontinent. The Peshwa was exiled to Bithoor (Marat, near Kanpur, Uttar Pradesh) as a pensioner of the British.

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Self congratulatory behavior notwithstanding, If you take the top 10% of India and Pakistan diaspora (and Bangladesh too for that matter) and supplant them to the US - they will have dramatically high levels of income. Because they were mostly educated in the US and they qualify for higher salaries.

90% of my Bangladeshi, Indian and Pakistani friends had a background and upbringing better than the average middle class family in the US - so its really unfair to compare them (and their preferences and economic/educational levels) with the "general public" here in the US.

The flipside of that equation is that all we have left, back in our countries in South Asia - are dip$hit leaders incapable of governing our countries successfully. In India you have "new Indians" whose twitter handles include Hitler's face with a Tika.

These are the inept dregs of humanity we all have left behind who have now risen to prominence and the more educated people leave, the more uneducated, self-indulgent, lootera, dictatorial and unqualified the next group of leaders in our countries will be, picked from the ranks of these dregs.

Which will invite more and more blatant interventions by world hegemons to exploit our populace.

a news about UK i found, as below:


Super-rich Indians account for more than 20% of the wealth of ultra-high net worth (UHNW) individuals in Britain, a new list showed on Tuesday. As a national group, they are second only to expat Russians.
a news about UK i found, as below:


Super-rich Indians account for more than 20% of the wealth of ultra-high net worth (UHNW) individuals in Britain, a new list showed on Tuesday. As a national group, they are second only to expat Rusia.

Indians pip Russians to become wealthiest landlords in Mayfair

Indians have overtaken Russians to become the wealthiest landlords in Britain’s most expensive commercial district — Mayfair in London.
Indian purchasers are now the largest group of overseas buyers in Mayfair comprising 25% of all purchasers and well ahead of other Asian and European buyers (19% of all purchasers) and Russians and Middle Eastern buyers who now comprise just 13% each. Indian billionaires have invested as much as £881million ($1.5 billon) in central London properties in past 18 months.

LONDON: Indians have overtaken Russians to become the wealthiest landlords in Britain’s most expensive commercial district — Mayfair in London. Indian purchasers are now the largest group of overseas buyers in Mayfair comprising 25% of all purchasers and well ahead of other Asian and European buyers (19% of all purchasers) and Russians and Middle Eastern buyers who now comprise just 13% each. Indian billionaires have invested as much as £881million ($1.5 billon) in central London properties in past 18 months.
Up to £440 million ($750m) was spent between wealthy home owners across 221 capital homes in 2013 with Mayfair and Belgravia being the most popular locations. Renowned Mayfair estate agency Wetherell estimate that at the height of each British summer some 3,000 ultra-high net worth (UHNW) Indian families make Mayfair their address, living in London homes, renting property or staying in luxury hotels.

Indians pip Russians to become wealthiest landlords in Mayfair - Times of India (indiatimes.com)
As of today, Wikipedia lists 39 professors of Pakistani-origin and 171 professors of Indian-origin teaching at US universities.



Indian people have first mover advantage. Also people in Fiji, Guyana and other british colonial empire were mostly slave labour.

whats would be ratio of British themselves in their ultra-high net worth (UHNW) list? Indians are second to Russians at 20%, with other Chinese-Asians ect?
this way, how much share left for British in their UHNW? :what:

=> Super-rich Indians account for more than 20% of the wealth of ultra-high net worth (UHNW) individuals in Britain, a new list showed on Tuesday. As a national group, they are second only to expat Russians.

Out of about 34,000 Ph.D. recipients in science/engineering (S/E) fields awarded by US institutions in 2020, 46% (approx. 15,000) held temporary visas, a lower bound estimation of “foreign students”. Among these 15,000 recipients with temporary visas, the largest portion came from China, at 37%, three times the proportion from India, the second largest sending country. In other words, 17% of all 2020 US doctoral degrees in S/E went to foreign students from China (SI Appendix, Supplementary Materials 1). Most foreign-born noncitizen recipients of US S/E doctorates remain in the United States for subsequent employment. For those from China, about 87% of new PhDs in 2005 to 2015 intended to stay in the United States (SI Appendix, Supplementary Materials 1). Along with native-born Chinese Americans, Chinese immigrants have become a large and visible demographic group in American science and technology (4). Today, it is hard to open an issue of any major scientific journal and not to find a Chinese name among its contributing authors. It is well known that China’s rapid scientific advancements have been fueled by proactive talent schemes to attract scientists of Chinese descent back to China (5). However, both the future supply and retention of current scientists and engineers from China have been dampened by the China Initiative launched following the onset of the US–China trade war in 2018 (6).

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Post figures for medical tourism
30℅ of my class of engineering students went abroad. This was in 1990s . Now it is more than 50℅ because of easy education loans. Even lower middle class are also going abroad for studies. I don't know how many are coming back to contribute to their mother land. It is a slow trickle but it will grow as we progress. In my family, 7 have come back for good.

those who don't get admission in government institutes are also as good as those who get admission. i guess there might be little difference in cut off.....
and those who dont get admission in top institutes in India are nearly as good as those who get admission and are in big number.
Indian people have first mover advantage. Also people in Fiji, Guyana and other british colonial empire were mostly slave labour.
Just be thankful US has allowed Indian people to work in the US.

Asking the US government to be "thankful" because of Indian work contribution is laughable.

So Kaamwali bai doesn't get abused in India?

What point are you making?

This is a question of rich vs. poor and not ethnicity...

the industries which feed to US's people, are they their own people? think again....

are they bringing 'officers' to make their people labours? is it true? :what:
no doubt indians are hardworking and disciplined .. sad we dont see any of them here..

and highly educated in US-NATO. its hard to get a visa of OECD economies and these migrants were proved to be, and there are reasons .... many in business quota also :coffee:

Recent appointment of Karachi-born Irfan Siddiqui as Chairman of the Physics Department at the University of California at Berkeley highlights the growing numbers of Pakistani-Americans in the top ranks of the academia. Dr. Irfan Siddiqui is among the top US experts in quantum computing. He is also the head of Lawrence Livermore Quantum Computing Lab at UC Berkeley. He's also one of the architects of the United States Quantum Initiative backed by industry, academia and the federal government.

Pakistani-American Professor Dr. Irfan Siddiqui, Chairman of Physics Dept at UC Berkeley

In addition to Dr. Irfan Siddiqui, there are many other high-profile Pakistani-American academics. For example, astrophysicist Dr. Nergis Mavalvala is the Dean of the School of Science at Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT). Dr. Asad Abidi is a professor of electrical engineering at the University of California at Los Angeles (UCLA). Economist Dr. Asim Khwaja is Director of the Center for International Development (CID) at Harvard University's Kennedy School of Government. Dr. Atif Rehman Mian is a professor of Economics, Public Policy, and Finance at Princeton University. Lina Khan was a professor at Columbia University Law School before she was named Chairperson of the US Federal Trade Commission (FTC) by President Joseph R. Biden. Dr. Mark Humayun is a professor of ophthalmology, biomedical engineering, and integrative anatomical sciences at University of Southern California (USC). Dr. Mansoor Mohiuddin is professor of medicine and director of Cardiac Xenotransplantation Program at the University of Maryland. Dr. Adil Najam is a professor of International Relations and of Earth and Environment at Boston University. These are just a few of high-profile Pakistani-Americans currently teaching at top universities in the United States.

As of 2019, there were 35,000 Pakistan-born STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering, Mathematics) workers in the United States, according to the American Immigration Council. They included information technologists, software developers, engineers and scientists. These figures do not include 12,454 medical doctors from Pakistan.

Foreign-born workers make up a growing share of America's STEM workforce. As of 2019, foreign-born workers made up almost a quarter of all STEM workers in the country. This is a significant increase from 2000, when just 16.4% of the country’s STEM workforce was foreign-born. Between 2000 and 2019, the overall number of STEM workers in the United States increased by 44.5 percent, from 7.5 million to more than 10.8 million, according to American Immigration Council.

India topped the top 10 list of foreign-born STEM workers with 721,000, followed by China (273,000), Mexico (119,000), Vietnam (100,000), Philippines (87,000), South Korea (64,000), Canada (56,000), Taiwan (53,000), Russia (45,000) and Pakistan (35,000). Enormous number of Indian STEM workers in the United States can at least partly be attributed to the fact that India's "body shops" have mastered the art of gaming the US temporary work visa system. Last year, Indian nationals sponsored by "body shops" like Cognizant, Infosys and TCS received 166,384 H1B visas for work in the United States. By comparison, only 1,107 Pakistanis were granted H1B visas in Fiscal Year 2022. In addition to H1B work visas, 9,300 Indian nationals and 7,200 Pakistani nationals received immigrant visas to settle in the United States as permanent residents in 2021.

In addition to 35,000 Pakistan-born STEM workers, there were 12,454 Pakistan-born and Pakistan-trained medical doctors practicing in the United States, making the South Asian nation the second largest source of medical doctors in America. Pakistan produced 157,102 STEM graduates last year, putting it among the world's top dozen or so countries. About 43,000 of these graduates are in information technology (IT).

Every year, applicants sponsored by Indian body shops claim the lion's share of H1B visas. In 2022, Indians received 166,384 new H1B visas, accounting for nearly three quarters of all such visas issued by the US government. The figures reported as India IT exports are in fact the wages earned by millions of Indian H1B workers in the United States.

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Gen-next of immigrants in US return home ; India, China to gain from reverse brain drain​

Samir Kapadia seemed to be on the rise in Washington, moving from an internship on Capitol Hill to jobs at a major foundation and a consulting firm. Yet his days, he felt, had become routine.

By contrast, friends and relatives in India, his native country, all in their early-to-mid-20s, were telling him about their lives in that newly surging nation. One was creating an e-commerce business, another a public relations company, still others a magazine, a business incubator and a gossip and events Web site.

"I'd sit there on Facebook and on the phone and hear about them starting all these companies and doing all these dynamic things," recalled Kapadia, 25, who was born in India but grew up in the United States. "And I started feeling that my 9-to-5 wasn't good enough anymore."

Last year, he quit his job and moved to Mumbai.

In growing numbers, highly educated children of immigrants to the US are uprooting themselves and moving to their ancestral countries, experts say. They are embracing homelands that their parents once spurned but that are now economic powers.

Some, like Kapadia, had arrived in the US as young children, becoming citizens, while others were born in the US to immigrant parents.

Enterprising Americans have always sought opportunities abroad. But this new wave underscores the evolving nature of global migration, which is presenting challenges to US supremacy and competitiveness.

In interviews, many of these Americans said they did not know how long they would live abroad; some said it was possible they would remain expatriates for many years, if not for the rest of their lives. Their decisions to leave have, in many cases, troubled their immigrant parents. Yet most said they had been pushed by the dismal hiring climate in the US or pulled by prospects abroad.

"Markets are opening, people are coming up with ideas every day, there's so much opportunity to mold and create," said Kapadia, now a researcher at Gateway House, a new foreign-policy research organisation in Mumbai. "People here are running much faster than those in Washington."

For generations, the world's less-developed countries have suffered brain drain - the flight of many of their best and brightest to the West. That, of course, has not stopped. But now, a reverse flow has begun, particularly to countries like China and India and, to a lesser extent, Brazil and Russia. Some scholars and business leaders contend that this emigration does not necessarily bode ill for the US.

They say young entrepreneurs and highly educated professionals sow American knowledge and skills abroad. At the same time, these workers acquire experience abroad and build networks that they can carry back to the US or elsewhere - a pattern known as "brain circulation."

But the experts caution that in the global race for talent, the return of these expatriates to the US and US companies is no longer a sure bet.

"These are the fleet-footed, they're the ones who in a sense will follow opportunity," said Demetrios G Papademetriou, president of the Migration Policy Institute, a non-profit group in Washington that studies population movements.

"I know there will be people who will argue all about loyalty, etc, etc," Papademetriou said. "I know when you go to war, loyalty matters. But this is a different kind of war that affects all of us."

The US government does not collect data on the emigration of US-born children of immigrants, or on those who were born abroad but moved to the country as young children. But several migration experts said the phenomenon was significant and increasing.

"We've gone way beyond anecdotal evidence," said Edward JW Park, director of the Asian Pacific American Studies Program at Loyola Marymount University in Los Angeles. He pointed out that this migration was spurred by the efforts of some overseas governments to attract more foreign talent by offering employment, investment, tax and visa incentives.

"So it's not just the individuals who are making these decisions," he said. "It's governments who enact strategic policies to facilitate this."

Officials in India said they had seen a sharp increase in the arrival of people of Indian descent in recent years, including at least 100,000 in 2010 alone, said Alwyn Didar Singh, a former senior official at the Ministry of Overseas Indian Affairs. Many of these Americans have been able to leverage family networks, language skills and cultural knowledge gleaned from growing up in immigrant households.

Jonathan Assayag, 29, a Brazilian-American born in Rio de Janeiro and raised in South Florida, returned to Brazil last year. A Harvard Business School graduate, he had been working at an Internet company in Silicon Valley and unsuccessfully trying to develop a business.

"I spent five months spending my weekends at Starbucks, trying to figure out a startup in America," he recalled.

All the while, friends from Harvard urged him to make a change. "They were saying: 'Jon, what are you doing? Go to Brazil and start a business there!"' he said.

Last year, he relocated to Sao Paulo and became an "entrepreneur in residence" at a leading Brazilian venture capital firm. He is now starting an online eyewear business.

"I speak the language, I get the culture, I understand how people do business," he said.

Calvin Chin was a Chinese-American entrepreneur born in Michigan and used to live in San Francisco, where he worked at technology startups and his wife was an interior decorator.

Chin's mother was from China, as were his paternal grandparents. His wife's parents were from Taiwan. They are now in Shanghai, where Chin has started two companies - an online loan service for students and an incubator for technology startups. His wife, Angie Wu, has worked as a columnist and television anchor, and they have two young children.

"The energy here is phenomenal," Chin said.

Reetu Jain, 36, an Indian-American raised in Texas, was inspired to move to India while taking time off from her auditing job to travel abroad. Everywhere she went, she said, she met people returning to their countries of origin and feeling the "creative energy" in the developing world.

She and her husband, Nehal Sanghavi, an Indian-American lawyer, moved to Mumbai in January 2011. But instead of continuing in accounting, she switched professions. Embracing a long-held passion, she now works as a dance instructor and choreographer and has acted in television advertisements and a Bollywood film.

For many of these emigres, the decision to relocate has confounded - and even angered - their immigrant parents. When Jason Lee, who was born in Taiwan and raised in the US, told his parents during college that he wanted to visit Hong Kong, his father refused to pay for the plane ticket.


Reverse brain drain​

Reverse brain drain is a form of brain drain where human capital moves in reverse from a more developed country to a less developed country that is developing rapidly. These migrants may accumulate savings, also known as remittances, and develop skills overseas that can be used in their home country.[1]

Brain drain can occur when scientists, engineers, or other intellectual elites migrate to a more developed country to learn in its universities, perform research, or gain working experience in areas where education and employment opportunities are limited in their home country. These professionals then return to their home country after several years of experience to start a related business, teach in a university, or work for a multi-national in their home country.[2] Their return is this "Reverse Brain Drain".

The occurrence of reverse brain drain mostly depends on the state of the country's development, and also strategies and planning over a long period of time to reverse the migration. Countries that are attractive to returning intelligentsia will naturally develop migration policies to attract foreign academics, professionals and executives.[3][4] This would also require these countries to develop an environment which will provide rewarding opportunities for those who have attained the knowledge and skills from overseas.[5]

In the past, many of the immigrants from developing countries chose to work and live permanently in developed countries; however, the recent economic growth that has been occurring back in their home countries—and the difficulty of attaining long-term work visas—has caused many of the immigrants to return home.[6]


The term ‘reverse brain drain' is closely tied with brain drain and brain gain because reverse brain drain is a migratory phenomenon that results due to the brain drain of the intellectual elites from developing countries and is the mirror image of the benefit of an inflow of high quality human resources which is brain gain.[7]

Reverse brain drain is sometimes related to the term ‘brain circulation', which is when migrants return to their own country on a regular or occasional basis, sharing the benefits of the skills and resources they have acquired while living and working abroad.[8] An example of the benefits for the host countries, especially developing countries, are the payments of remittances. This provides a reason for governments to issue new legislation and tax rules that encourage outward migration and remittances.[9]: 134

However, "brain circulation" is known as the extended definition of brain gain with an emphasis on human capital circulation across nations in the global market, benefiting both the sending and receiving nations; in addition it is considered a two-way flow of skill, capital, and technology, unlike brain drain and reverse brain drain.[10]

Court Sentences Spy Who Sold Stealth Bomber Secrets to China
Jason Mick (Blog) - January 26, 2011

Mr. Gowadia helped designed the stealth and propulsion systems of the B-2 bomber , while at Northrop Grumman. But in 1999 he found a consulting firm and began selling his secrets to foreign nations, including China. :coffee:

18425 bombers b2 0004

The Cold War may be over, but the art of spying is far from dead. If the recent case of Anna Chapman -- a Russian vixen turned super-spy -- wasn't reminder enough, we have the case of Noshir Gowadia, a convicted Hawaiian-based spy who sold U.S. Air Force secrets to China.

I. From Top Engineer to Dangerous Spy

This man, now 66 years old, was born in India but immigrated to the U.S., starting a new life as a professional engineer. At his new work he gained access to some our nation's most valuable secrets. The man in fact designed those secrets while working with top military contractor Northrop Grumman.

Mr. Gowadia, billed himself as "father of the technology that protects the B-2 stealth bomber from heat-seeking missiles" . He was among the principle design engineers working on the B-2's propulsion system during his career with Northrop that lasted from 1968 to 1986. :-)

In the late 1990s, he struck out on his own, founding a consulting firm in 1999 dubbed "Gowadia, Inc."

Over the next five years he reportedly proceeded to try to sell foreign operatives our nation's stealth secrets, some of which he concocted. He sent information to operatives from Germany, Israel, and Switzerland.

And his biggest transaction was his transmission of a wealth of data to the People's Republic of China. That transaction allowed China to jump-start its stealth aerospace efforts and design a stealth missile. It also netted Mr. Gowadia $110,000 USD, which he used pay off his mortgage on a luxury home on the island of Maui. :turkey:

But that gain would result in a far greater loss, the loss of his freedom.

II. The Arrest

In 2005, Mr. Gowdia was arrested after the CIA and FBI analyzed his communications. Federal authorities raided Mr. Gowdia's penthouse only to discover documents showing his communication of state secrets to eight separate nations. Mr Gowdia admitted to sending the classified information, but said he only did so to "to establish the technological credibility with the potential customers for future business."

The U.S. government clearly didn't buy that excuse. They charged Mr. Gowdia with 18 counts, including espionage charges, charges about the transmission of classified documents to a foreign state, charges stemming from his role in designing Chinese stealth missiles, and money laundering charges.

The trial dragged on through 2007 as Mr. Gowdia's defense team insisted they needed access to classified materials in order to give a proper defense. Once they obtained those materials after a thorough security screening, the trial was further delayed, as the defense claimed Mr. Gowdia was suffering from narcissistic personality disorder. The defense brought in Richard Rogers, a forensic psychology professor at the University of North Texas, and Dr. Pablo Stewart, a psychiatry professor at the University of California, San Francisco to testify about Mr. Gowdia's supposed condition.

On November 20, 2009, a federal magistrate ruled that the experts' testimony was not credible. U.S. Magistrate Kevin S.C. Chang wrote that just because the defendant couldn't communicate well with his defense team didn't mean he was incompetent and unable to stand trial, as the defense claimed.

III. The Sentence

After a three-month jury trial, Mr. Gowdia was finally found guilty of 14 out of 17 charges, with a verdict arriving August 9, 2010. Sentencing was delayed until this week. While Mr. Gowdia faced up to a life sentence in prison, he was sentenced to a slightly lesser sentence of 32 years in federal prison.

Assistant US Attorney Ken Sorenson who prosecuted the case told the Associated Press that he was "a little disappointed" with the sentence. "But 32 years is stiff and in many ways an appropriate sentence for him. We're confident the message is sent that when you compromise US national security, when you disclose national defense secrets, when you profit by US national defense information, that you will be punished, you will be pursued, you will be convicted," Sorenson continued.

If he lives long enough, he may eventually see parole, but Mr. Gowdia likely will spend most of the remainder of his life behind bars.

His family claims that he is innocent and is fighting to appeal the decision. States his son, Ashton, to the Associated Press, "My father would never, ever do anything to intentionally to hurt this country. We hope the convictions will be overturned and he'll be able to go home."

In a similar case, an elderly Chinese spy working at Boeing was recently sentenced to 15 years behind bars.

dailytech.com/Court+Sentences+Spy+Who+Sold+Stealth+Bomber+Secret s+to+China/article20755.htm
=> https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna41249426
=> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-pacific-12272941

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