Pakistan will get 34 T37 from Turkey.

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Dude you don't need articles and project reports to put dirt on a fifth gen aircraft which will go as planned just like any other defense project completed and will fly above Turkish skies that's all we care yes, simply don't opt it and go for Chinese copycats in which will be much more cheaper but doubtful to maintain and doesn't support STANAG standards, after a point you'll have to choose between the two. Either go for US based software systems or the Chinese.

Than why go for copycat chinese SAM's?... Let's face it... China today is one of the largest weapons exporter... The second largest economy .. Pumping hundreds of billions into R&D... They are already catching up with Europe.

Carry on, let's just say it didn't. It'll make the skies one way or another, how much delay? 5 years? Then still how many countries there'd be that have its own true 5th gen plane developed.

Good luck... I see russia,China and US struggling with their 5th gen fighters... (all industrialised,with a lot of aeronautical experience,homegrown mature aviation industries & massive resources at their disposal).


Hope to see you develop one... Considering you have aeronautical experience building/assembling F-16s under liscense...

 

[cabatli_53]

to put it bluntly TFX right now is nothing more than a concept...

yes the fuselage shall be built under ToT from USA.. The main developer of the jet.. A which despite sending over 250? Billion dollars and years in R&D is still years before actual production ... The 2023 timeframe is pure nonsense.

The only nonsense I see here is your reaction dude. You asked and I told the planned schedule. If A delay occurs the agenda, It will also be discussed in TF-X thread. A delay is not a shame since Turkey is aiming to develop a new generation fighter jet to replace F-16 fighters but Noone mentioned any ToT for fuselage. I am talking about Turkey's active production lines seperated for high tech F-35 center fuselage productions that will be used for TF-X projects as well.

Than why go for copycat chinese SAM's?... Let's face it... China today is one of the largest weapons exporter... The second largest economy .. Pumping hundreds of billions into R&D... They are already catching up with Europe.
.

Why Chinese go for Russian SAM ? If you understand the logic behind that, You will also get the point of why Turkey goes for Chinese SAM.

 

[HAIDER]

@cabatli_53 , what's your assessment about his news. Look fake to me.

 

[Neptune]

Than why go for copycat chinese SAM's?... Let's face it... China today is one of the largest weapons exporter... The second largest economy .. Pumping hundreds of billions into R&D... They are already catching up with Europe.




Good luck... I see russia,China and US struggling with their 5th gen fighters... (all industrialised,with a lot of aeronautical experience,homegrown mature aviation industries & massive resources at their disposal).


Hope to see you develop one... Considering you have aeronautical experience building/assembling F-16s under liscense...

1- Political decision, look at any reliable source. No experts ever supported this. It was directly decided by a dictator on our head.

2- Of course they are. But one thing is clear, at some specific areas they won't catch up.

3- US? Don't give me that F-35 legends yara . It's just China and Russia that struggles on it. Thus myself I admit that they can't be 100% our own made unless the engines are developed. But we will get as much as R&D input we can to augument already matured and advanced military electronics and aviation industry. One example is: T-14 Armata's parade at Moscow.

 

[cabatli_53]

@cabatli_53 , what's your assessment about his news. Look fake to me.

As Combat-Master stated It is more possible mentioned jet trainers Turkey will transfer to Pakistan may be T-37. T-38M Ari jet trainers are newly upgraded by TAI and TurAf deadly needs them for following 15 years. Most probably, The authors made a classic typo and put the name of T-38 instead of T-37.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

1- Political decision, look at any reliable source. No experts ever supported this. It was directly decided by a dictator on our head.

2- Of course they are. But one thing is clear, at some specific areas they won't catch up.

3- US? Don't give me that F-35 legends yara . It's just China and Russia that struggles on it. Thus myself I admit that they can't be 100% our own made unless the engines are developed. But we will get as much as R&D input we can to augument already matured and advanced military electronics and aviation industry. One example is: T-14 Armata's parade at Moscow.

1) What politics ? Maybe the Chinese are offering a sweeter deal.

2)Like what exactly?

3)It's true that F-35 is behind schedule and the US is struggling with it... It's cost has ballooned massively.. Etc.. And recently the F-16 can shoot down F-35 news... Well anyways..

The Armata again didn't "break down" it's brakes were "allegedly" on.. But it was later driven on its own... And is still under development... And to be honest a unique concept (although it takes its inspiration from an old Soviet program).

The only nonsense I see here is your reaction dude. You asked and I told the planned schedule. If A delay occurs the agenda, It will also be discussed in TF-X thread. A delay is not a shame since Turkey is aiming to develop a new generation fighter jet to replace F-16 fighters but Noone mentioned any ToT for fuselage. I am talking about Turkey's active production lines seperated for high tech F-35 center fuselage productions that will be used for TF-X projects as well.

Listen buddy .. I got nothing against Turkey.. Infacts it's the opposite...so don't go all angry and stuff... But the truth is that despite all our bonhomie I can't just blindly agree to anything you have to say or even my countrymen (in case of Pak projects)... Now I don't know about your TFX project but just a few months back you guys were trying to hook up with Indonesia n Korea on this project ? Also is there anything concrete from your govt to even point out that the KFX program has started? Your "sahin" missile source is believe is an old news from early 2000s... I have no idea about your "AESA" program although I know about T-129s radar project... Anyhow... I'm sorry but I can't believe that Turkey can chun out a 5th gen fighter on her own.. Considering the fact that you do not have such a nature aviation industry... Don't get me wrong but all Turkey has to show are licsence assembled F-16s and Harkus...

Nor can Pak for that matter despite producing JF-17,Super Mushak and K-8...

Why Chinese go for Russian SAM ? If you understand the logic behind that, You will also get the point of why Turkey goes for Chinese SAM.

I don't think Chinese bought the russian 400 ? Although the HQ series itself is based on the 300... And Russia & China are pretty close defence partners with China being a big importer of russian weapons in the past.


---/--/---


Just googled the KFX project.... Seems Turjey isn't a partner in the project anymore... Turkey wanted more share (More than the offered 20%) on the project but it didn't go through....

Today KAI is partnering with Lockheed to develop KFX (which isn't really a 5th gen fighter rather aimed at being an equivalent to Jas - F etc and having a front cross section of the F-18 etc... With "stealth" creeping in the further variants) .. Indonesians also have a 20% share in the project...


Latest on KFX ;

South Korea picks KAI, with Lockheed, for $7.9 billion fighter jet development| Reuters

And still a paper pipe... Although it's timeline was 2025!

 

[HAIDER]

As Combat-Master stated It is more possible mentioned jet trainers Turkey will transfer to Pakistan may be T-37. T-38M Ari jet trainers are newly upgraded by TAI and TurAf deadly needs them for following 15 years. Most probably, The authors made a classic typo and put the name of T-38 instead of T-37.

That's what i was thinking. thanks

 

[fatman17]

sir jee t-37 ka maal t-38 per kesy lagay gay ? alteration kery gay kya ?

Bhai T37 is being donated by Turkey not T38 shamja karo yar

 

[Kompromat]

PAF doesn't need T-37s nor T-38s for that matter. I have serious doubts about the whole thing. K-8Ps are enough to fulfill our requirements for now. PAF has looked at other options like L-15s and YAK-130 for advanced jet trainer roles. TuRAF needs these T-38s for itself because no replacement is planned unless they are going for KA-50 production at TAI, so overall it could just be a media hype.

K-8 upgrade.

As Combat-Master stated It is more possible mentioned jet trainers Turkey will transfer to Pakistan may be T-37. T-38M Ari jet trainers are newly upgraded by TAI and TurAf deadly needs them for following 15 years. Most probably, The authors made a classic typo and put the name of T-38 instead of T-37.

 

[fatman17]

PAF doesn't need T-37s nor T-38s for that matter. I have serious doubts about the whole thing. K-8Ps are enough to fulfill our requirements for now. PAF has looked at other options like L-15s and YAK-130 for advanced jet trainer roles. TuRAF needs these T-38s for itself because no replacement is planned unless they are going for KA-50 production at TAI, so overall it could just be a media hype.

K-8 upgrade.

View attachment 249124

Relax mate its confirmed news.

 

[Arsalan]

LOL...
In my opinion these will not be T-38's because if they are then it is similar to the F-5's that were refused by Pakistan in favor of the F-16 in the 80's. How ever there are some F-5 in storage with the Saudi's may be they would eventually be part of PAF with the upgrades done by Turkey...Though it is known that the Saeqah aircraft is the most advance variant of the F-5.

If indeed PAF does get the T-38's then it might also be thinking to get the F-5's from RSAAF. These aircraft may be for Pakistan Navy as they have 1400 KM range which is enough for protracting the sea lanes.

IMO this is not what PAF would be thinking.

Most probably the Turk's are going to gift PAF the T-37's on which Pilots from Pakistan train the Turkish pilots.

There is no relation between, what you are saying a far fetched story man.

T-38 are meant to be trainers, the planes you are comparing it with, F-5 were offered as a fighter. We didn't chose F-16 over a trainer aircraft. You are comparing apples and oranges. There is no relation between these T-38, meant for training and most probably replacing the older T-37 to the idea of obsolete F-4, F-5 from Saudia. I am surprised what makes you make that connection? And then the Iranian plane?

PLEASE, the T-38 are training aircraft and there is no space or need for the f-5 junk. Kindly try to be a bit more reasonable.

It is like saying that Pakistan navy is getting 6 nuclear submarines so that is why PAF chose these T-38,, see? it sounds stupid.

Relax mate its confirmed news.

the report says T-38, you are saying that was a mistake?

 

[Genghis khan1]

whoever gives you anything free becomes your deeper than, higher than, sweeter than friend
and you get to start Ghazwa e hind.

Hell ya. Jealous much!!!

at least we dont need donation.

we buy 36 jets even if its low number,not fight with donated weapons like you.



that lca is junk, its true.

but

.at least we make and buy our weapons.

poor guys need donation and aid.
we are retiring our migs. you need some, we will donate you.

dilse mat lena joking man.

1. Sir, there is a difference b/w donation and a Gift. There is a long history b/w Turkish and Pakistani people. Even before our Independence.

2. India also receives monetary aids from UK and other donors. Not to mention Indian debt is almost 1 trillion dollars. Yap, 1 trillion. Almost 20x that of Pakistan.

 

[cabatli_53]

But the truth is that despite all our bonhomie I can't just blindly agree to anything you have to say or even my countrymen (in case of Pak projects)... Now I don't know about your TFX project but just a few months back you guys were trying to hook up with Indonesia n Korea on this project ? Also is there anything concrete from your govt to even point out that the KFX program has started? Your "sahin" missile source is believe is an old news from early 2000s... I have no idea about your "AESA" program although I know about T-129s radar project... Anyhow... I'm sorry but I can't believe that Turkey can chun out a 5th gen fighter on her own.. Considering the fact that you do not have such a nature aviation industry... Don't get me wrong but all Turkey has to show are licsence assembled F-16s and Harkus...

The people who claims to believe(or not) related things, should firstly have some informations about the things that is being talked, then assess the conditions in accordance with time frame, infrastructure and reach a result (If you have some basic knowledge about ongoing process of others projects but Put making a discussion for them aside, you can't even type their names correctly). Noone wants you to believe what I am talking blindly but Don't claim the things blindly you don't have any idea as well. That's what is being called as a realistic manner in serious discussions but What I see with you is pure nonsense about mentioned projects but claiming seriously big things based on assumptions. It is the reason I feel to make many corrections over the things you are talking about.

1- Turkey is not a partner of KF-X project. Turkey offered %40-%40 equal partnership along with equal R&D contribution but Korea rejected that offer so Participation possibility is finished. It wasn't a few months but 3-4 years ago.

2-Turkish AA projects are not old coming from early 2000's but 2012-13's. AirForce requests such domestic missiles which is going to be the main striking power of Turkish Air Force. It is Tubitak SAGE-Aselsan collaboration charged to develop two of them indigenously.

Sahin

3- Turkey's Aselsan has Europe's second biggest microwave and modul/radar production institute in Europe and This institute is on way to develop strategic products from FX AESA to ship TF-2000 APAR radars, Long range Early Warning radars for High Altitude SAM...etc

4- Turkey will most probably select a partner to develop own 5th generation fighter and It will be SAAB as They were the partner of TAI in preliminary design phase.

5- Hurkus trainer project is neither a licence production, nor an assembly project of a foreign aircraft but pure domestic in terms of avionics, fuselage design and many other things. You can see the differences between Hurkus and other designs.

 

[Ideological Defender]

Seems to be better than T-37 by the look of it.

 

[Cengiz Dev]

Turks owe a favour to our Pakistani brothers.Our friendship will never get old and we will not forget the support during our independance war.I wish we could do more.
Well at least we will train Pakistani pilots in Turkey in our new MMFCT facilities.
It will stenght our ties.Also a great opportunity to share experience.