Pakistan wants meaningful dialogue Not Photo Session with India

[Mirage2000]

May be you are aware that Indian media is not an arm or wing of Indian government, unlike India's competitor. And regardless of what the media says and broadcasts, India in the past has never started war with Pakistan, except the episode of 1971, whereas Pakistan has not just started everytime, but as recently as 10 years ago, it started a war in two months after signing a "new chapter of friendship" with India.

So we are devils because we attack a disputed territory and India beeing an angel sent its Mukti terrorists in East Pakistan which was recognized by India,WOW quite pathetic irrational mindset.

As for Kargill some people clearly forget Siachin occupation breaking the Shimla agreement but what else can be expected from Indians.

So, stop blaming India for things it has not done(like starting war, even after LeT living in Pakistan was responsible for attacks).

oh the bad guy does'nt listens to you maybe you should shout louder.

Agreed that Pakistan was growing faster, but limitless explosions by "strategic assets" does not provide any avenue for FDI. In addition to that, the existing industries have problem maintaining day-to-day operation because of bomb blasts and electric cuts.
TTP already warned of poisoning water and if that were to happen, think of consequences. Pakistan's government is basically bankrupt and will need to increase taxes, especially when economy is not doing good. Think of the impact that will cause!

TTP will finished for good in coming time sit and watch but I really wonder why are you so obsessed with TTP while you have Naxalites, ULFA and almost 50+ insurgent movements to deal with.

and as for Electric outage is India free from them?
and our govt is bankrupt,OMG nobody in Pakistan knows that has your RAW told you? they sure are becoming efficient or perhaps its your yellow media?.

Keep your stupid propaganda with you that Pakistan is bankrupt no one here will buy this I think you should keep with you what your yellow Indian media propagates,no ones gonna be impressed with your sick propaganda.

Friendship cannot be obtained by backstabbing everytime (like Kargil) and claiming that Mujahadeen did it! LeT attacks on Mumbai is getting linked to some PA army officiers from arrests in Chicago. It is my presumption that ISI might be involved in it, but since I dont belong to Pakistan government, I wouldn't claim as I cannot prove it.

Friendship can also be not obtained by supporting TTP Baloch terrorists and giving targets and money to them.Simillarly chest beating and your Ignorance will keep us at distance from you and thats good for us.As for Kargil,Occupying Siachin is what you did.

 

[SMC]

I appreciate answering to my comments in a civil way unlike some of the baffoons who do otherwise.

I dont think India is trying to compare to Pakistan. India is comparing itself to China which is ahead of it and has larger forex.

Right, but many Indians say that indian military is so much stronger than Pakistan etc, and you were sounding like that, and which I responded to by saying what I said. China is better competitor and more of india's size and thus indians should be comparing themselves to China.

May be you are aware that Indian media is not an arm or wing of Indian government, unlike India's competitor. And regardless of what the media says and broadcasts, India in the past has never started war with Pakistan, except the episode of 1971, whereas Pakistan has not just started everytime, but as recently as 10 years ago, it started a war in two months after signing a "new chapter of friendship" with India.

So, stop blaming India for things it has not done(like starting war, even after LeT living in Pakistan was responsible for attacks).

But you can't deny that india is the only one to have attacked international borders while Pakistan's action has been limited to Kashnir.

When I said support, India is not expecting military help. India is way powerful than that. What I meant, military spares and supplies, and support at UN security council.

Even that is incorrect. I don't see France, UK, even US supporting India and providing them spare parts and supplies. Keep in mind that France and US supply to Pakistan right now and incase of war, the best they will do is stop supplying - they won't supply to india. As far as UNSC goes, the most they would do is call for ceasefire and that's it.

India has lot of poor people. Who is denying that and it is more likely that they will uplifted from poverty. India's internal goal is to eliminate poverty by 2020.(i.e. living people living below $1/day)

My point was despite that all the growth that india has experienced, and all the things made out about Pakistan, the GDP per capita remains nearly the same for both countries, suggesting that either Pakistani growth was not taken into consideration, or india's growth exaggarated, or a combination of both.

And more importantly, india's growth has mostly benefited the rich. The poor continue to live in poverty and there has been little change in the 800 million figure I gave earlier. Pakistan's GINI is much better than india, and the growth that happened in first half of the decade did help the poor and decreased the poverty.

Agreed that Pakistan was growing faster, but limitless explosions by "strategic assets" does not provide any avenue for FDI. In addition to that, the existing industries have problem maintaining day-to-day operation because of bomb blasts and electric cuts.

TTP already warned of poisoning water and if that were to happen, think of consequences. Pakistan's government is basically bankrupt and will need to increase taxes, especially when economy is not doing good. Think of the impact that will cause!

What I will say is that we are working on these problems such as bomb blasts and electric cuts (and I hear that india has its own share of massive cuts as well) and you should not expect them to last forever. The series of bomb blasts are always short lived and are never sustained for long period of time. The TTP are on their last leg and soon they will be history. We are also working on electricity - making new power plants and using our natural resources.

As far as TTP poisoning water goes - that should really prove to you that they are near their end and are using whatever they have left to avoid defeat.

 

[SMC]

Really?

Please check following :

Net Inflow of Foreign Investment in Pakistan

Financial Year 2006 = US$ 4.4855 Billion

Financial Year 2007 = US$ 8.4283 Billion

Financial Year 2008 = US$ 5.4502 Billion

Financial Year 2009 = US$ 2.6654 Billion

I read an article mentioning 10B foreign investment. A peak of 8.4 billion before recession is still not too far off. And as you can see it still hasn't dried up and investors are still interested in Pakistan.

 

[rajeev]

So we are devils because we attack a disputed territory and India beeing an angel sent its Mukti terrorists in East Pakistan which was recognized by India,WOW quite pathetic irrational mindset.

As for Kargill some people clearly forget Siachin occupation breaking the Shimal Agreement but what else can be expected from Indians.

Disputed according to Pakistan. For India, J&K is part of India.

If I can counter your irrational talk like you do, then the whole of Pakistan is a disputed territory for India.

oh the bad guy does'nt listens to you maybe you should shout louder.

U mean shout louder ??? to whom? to PA or to terrorists - or do you claim they are one and the same!!

TTP will finished for good in coming time sit and watch but I really wonder why are you so obsessed with TTP while you have Naxalites, ULFA and almost 50+ insurgent movements to deal with.

None even coming closer to 60 miles of the capital. None even having sophisticated weapons! None having sucide bombers!

Well, how can I argue. I have even read some posts from Pakistanis claiming TTP is a friend.

and as for Electric outage is India free from them?

Electric shortage is because of the growth and NOT because TTP took down the power line, or Baluchis exploded a bomb in the gasline.

and our govt is bankrupt,OMG nobody in Pakistan knows that has your RAW told you? they sure are becoming efficient or perhaps its your yellow media?.

You sure impress me! That is why I am telling read more than what PA says.

Pakistan facing bankruptcy - Telegraph

China to 'bail-out' near bankrupt Pakistan - Telegraph

Pakistan facing bankruptcy as world financial crisis deepens

IMF to lend USD 3.2 billion to Pakistan

Pakistan to receive $9bn from IMF in fight against bankruptcy - Telegraph

After milking US for 7.5 billion $, Pakistan was quick to blame US for any conditionalities. According to Pakistanis, they only believes receiving everything for free! No one came forward to reject the money but there were marches to remove the conditionalities!

Keep your stupid propaganda with you that Pakistan is bankrupt no one here will buy this I think you should keep with you what your yellow Indian media propagates,no ones gonna be impressed with your sick propaganda.

Friendship can also be not obtained by supporting TTP Baloch terrorists and giving targets and money to them.Simillarly chest beating and your Ignorance will keep us at distance from you and thats good for us.As for Kargil,Occupying Siachin is what you did.

Yes, I remember the abudance of proof what Pakistan has that India is supporting Taliban lol and Balochis. Pakistan cannot provide it now and they have it and everyone in Pakistan knows it. They will provide it to the world later on.

That was the funniest parady I read in recent times!

 

[rajeev]

But you can't deny that india is the only one to have attacked international borders while Pakistan's action has been limited to Kashnir.

To India, J&K is part of India. So any war with India in Kashmir or Rajasthan or Punjab or Gujrat is same. Just because Pakistan has a definition of how the war was conducted, it does not mean that India will have to accept that line of thinking.

Pakistan had attacked India so many times in the past even though it accussed India being a hegomonic power.

Even during 71 war, it was Pakistan that dropped the bombed India before India attacked Pakistan. You might claimed India supported Mukti Bahini. My counter to that, is it just like Kashmir insurgent support from 1980's? And India's response was ..... (cant even compare to Pakistan, right?)

Personally, I have no idea of what is Pakistan's objective. Does Pakistan really believe that it can win war with India, or India will not react if feels the pain? I have no idea!

Even that is incorrect. I don't see France, UK, even US supporting India and providing them spare parts and supplies. Keep in mind that France and US supply to Pakistan right now and incase of war, the best they will do is stop supplying - they won't supply to india. As far as UNSC goes, the most they would do is call for ceasefire and that's it.

Wait and watch! None of these powers are providing any weapons to China. The next biggest power on the block that has lot of money to buy and is not hostile to western powers will not get denied.

My point was despite that all the growth that india has experienced, and all the things made out about Pakistan, the GDP per capita remains nearly the same for both countries, suggesting that either Pakistani growth was not taken into consideration, or india's growth exaggarated, or a combination of both.

And more importantly, india's growth has mostly benefited the rich. The poor continue to live in poverty and there has been little change in the 800 million figure I gave earlier. Pakistan's GINI is much better than india, and the growth that happened in first half of the decade did help the poor and decreased the poverty.

Agreed Pakistan's GINI is better than India. But you got to believe in trickle down theory or supply-side economics. Did you know China had lower per-capita income than India until 1991? And where are they now? 3x... How? Rate of growth.

Goldman predicts Pakistan per capita of 7K and India's to be 17K-20K by 2050. The changes are not apparent when considered on a yearly basis, but they get widened as years go on. (Law of compounding)

What I will say is that we are working on these problems such as bomb blasts and electric cuts (and I hear that india has its own share of massive cuts as well) and you should not expect them to last forever. The series of bomb blasts are always short lived and are never sustained for long period of time. The TTP are on their last leg and soon they will be history. We are also working on electricity - making new power plants and using our natural resources.

As far as TTP poisoning water goes - that should really prove to you that they are near their end and are using whatever they have left to avoid defeat.

Did we all thought the same in Feb? But by April they were 60 miles to capital. I dont believe that!

Pakistan government is not interested in shutting down Madrassas ie. there is a constant churn of terrorists that is produced.

I am sure that TTP will not die down until America leaves and may be beyond that if they are able to secure a place by then. How can you even compare them to terrorists and small-time criminals? They are holding ground and waging war with an army and you think they will back down!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Why should India be serious about talks or even spare time for a photo session? what, if anything, has the GoP done to combat the LeT and their ideology?

"Regarding Mumbai attacks, he stated that seven accused of Mumbai attacks are being prosecuted in Pakistan, therefore, India should wait for decisions of their cases."
Pak rules out Mullah Omer presence in Karachi : Business Recorder | LATEST NEWS

 

[SMC]

rajeev, this is taking too much of my time and there is no point in discussing that so I will stop.

Keep in mind that the media you're quoting never mentioned Pakistan's strong growth when it happened and only chose to look at the negative. Since the decrease in growth, the media is getting its vagina wet and trying to take whatever it can out of the situation. People in Pakistan know that all the doom and gloom being shown is for the most part just media doing their own thing and trying to make money.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Pakistan has started all the wars on Kashmir - 1948 (so-called Mujahdeens, PA), 1965, 1999 (Kargil). How can you be so shameful to say India starts the war?

All blatant lies - In 1948 Pakistan did nothing different than what India did in Junagadh and Hyderabad, and 1971 was blatant Indian aggression after supporting terrorists in Pakistan that massacred the families of West Pakistanis, Biharis and East Pakistanis who were believed to be collaborating with the GoP - and this happened before OP. Searchlight.

So Pakistan can only be blamed for the attempt to insert infiltrators into IoK in 1965.

In any case, back to topic. This post was only to correct propaganda, not an invitation to go off on a tangent as I expect some of you will try to do.

 

[Mirage2000]

Disputed according to Pakistan. For India, J&K is part of India.

And considered disputed by UN.And do I have to tell you that how many countries does UN comprises.

If I can counter your irrational talk like you do, then the whole of Pakistan is a disputed territory for India.

Yeah what we talk is irrational while what you talk is most rational thing of whole universe

U mean shout louder ??? to whom? to PA or to terrorists - or do you claim they are one and the same!!

Shout to the guy who was'nt listening and you were asking him to stop blaming India,poor you and how baaad of him.

None even coming closer to 60 miles of the capital. None even having sophisticated weapons! None having sucide bombers!

Oh really! I mean Mumbai attack was nothing for you terrorists did nothing .

Electric shortage is because of the growth and NOT because TTP took down the power line, or Baluchis exploded a bomb in the gasline.

Oh boy I mean do really know Pakistan? son we generate eletricity from oil and water not from gas,and when did TTP blew up electric lines I heared S.Waziristan was still getting electricity when TTP was there you have any link to support your claim?
As for terrorists blowing gas line do I have to remind you of Naxlites they are known to resist the mining of minerals in their areas.

You sure impress me! That is why I am telling read more than what PA says.

Sure PA is far better that your yellow media or yelling PM.

Pakistan facing bankruptcy - Telegraph

China to 'bail-out' near bankrupt Pakistan - Telegraph

Pakistan facing bankruptcy as world financial crisis deepens

IMF to lend USD 3.2 billion to Pakistan

Pakistan to receive $9bn from IMF in fight against bankruptcy - Telegraph

Oh are you drunk?

We're not living in oct 2008 right?

These links which provided date back to that date,and telegraph is somewhat inaccurate too one link says(dated oct 2008) that Pakistans foriegn resevses have fallen to $ 4 Billion while the lowest figure to which reseves fell was $6 Billion and even at that time Pakistan was at Risk of Bankrupcy not Bankrupt,mainly because of loan payments and recession.

However your very rational mind is unable to Understand the difference between beeing bankrupt and beeing at risk of Bankrupt.And to add to your rational mind the foriegn reserves of Pakistan are.

KARACHI: Pakistan’’s total liquid foreign exchange reserves stood at $14,123.5 million on November 14, 2009, State Bank of Pakistan said Thursday.
According to break-up, forex reserves held by SBP were $10,494.0 million and net foreign reserves held by banks (other than SBP) were $3,629.5 million.

Pakistan’’s total liquid foreign exchange reserves | TheNewsPk

US $14,123.5 million means US$ 14.1235 Billion if your rational mind cant understand that either,they are sufficient for us,and If taking loans from IMF is beeing bankrupt then your very own India too was bankrupt years back when India took loans from IMF.

After milking US for 7.5 billion $, Pakistan was quick to blame US for any conditionalities. According to Pakistanis, they only believes receiving everything for free! No one came forward to reject the money but there were marches to remove the conditionalities!

These questions have been answered in various other threads and you can find answers there.BTW nice try to derail the thread do I have to remind you of thread title?

Yes, I remember the abudance of proof what Pakistan has that India is supporting Taliban lol and Balochis. Pakistan cannot provide it now and they have it and everyone in Pakistan knows it. They will provide it to the world later on.
That was the funniest parady I read in recent times!

Absolutely we have it,if its funny for you then let me tell you a more funny thing.
Your PM(Manmohan Singh) yells that he has prove that another Mumbai like attack is bound to happen but does'nt give Pakistan or world the prove,Funny isnt it? I am laughing out loud.

 

[The Patriot]

Why is India not serious in talks with Pakistan? Well, the answer may be beyond the traditional rhetoric, Mumbai incident, Indian hegemony etc. There is one aspect which nobody has so far discussed and which is quite important.

India and Pakistan have different political systems. India is a democracy where governments usually complete their tenures and there is usually little political crisis especially in the recent past. On the other hand Pakistan never witnessed a stable political and democratic government. instead, the army rule is found stable and longstanding. India saw the political crisis of 1990s in Pakistan and could not do any comprehensive dialogue with the governments in crisis. But they did with the Nawaz government, Kargil happened.

This showed that democratic governments were not in control in Pakistan and the real power lied within the establishment. India like anybody else realized that. that is why they were ready to talk to Musharraf, who was a dictator, and start composite dialogue. And it was the right decision for India because it knew the dialogue has the support of establishment and that the government of Musharraf also going to stay long.

Musharraf is gone now, Mumbai incident happened and Pakistan’s democratic government is facing political crisis. Such situation might suit india to put diplomatic pressure on Pakistan for arresting LeT men but it will never start serious dialogue until it gets assurance that the current government in Pakistan has the backing of establishment and is going to stay for its tenure.

So far, I don’t see the current government will be out of crisis any time soon and there wont be any dialogue with india.

 

[Spitfighter]

"Regarding Mumbai attacks, he stated that seven accused of Mumbai attacks are being prosecuted in Pakistan, therefore, India should wait for decisions of their cases."
Pak rules out Mullah Omer presence in Karachi : Business Recorder | LATEST NEWS

That's seven people, what difference is that going to make? What has the GoP done to wipe out the group, its leadership etc?

The group is still active, it still has connections within the ISI and PA, you've certainly come across the thread about the recent arrests made in the US have you not?

So far all the major operations have been against the TTP and not LeT. Why?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

That's seven people, what difference is that going to make? What has the GoP done to wipe out the group, its leadership etc?

The group is still active, it still has connections within the ISI and PA, you've certainly come across the thread about the recent arrests made in the US have you not?

So far all the major operations have been against the TTP and not LeT. Why?

That is the leadership in that these people were pinpointed as the 'masterminds' by India herself.

And IIRC, in the aftermath of the Mumbai attacks, the Indian media carried various interviews of LeT members who said that their ability to operate in Pakistan had been seriously impacted since the Parliament attacks.

I mean do we even have any hard evidence on 'terrorist training camps' as alleged by India or is it just more rhetoric to pander to the Indian electorate?

 

[MilesTogo]

You sure have a good supply of Kashmiris - keep them coming...

Then we would also not mind the photo session after all what meaningful dialogue Indians can offer other than usual BS tactics.

You continue blowing hot and clod and we would like to create new ways for Kashmiris to visit their own country Kashmir.

 

[Captain03]

FM asks India not to waste Pakistan's time​

Updated : Friday November 20 , 2009 5:25:19 PM



MULTAN: Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi has asked India not to waste Pakistan’s time if it was not serious in carrying out bilateral talks with its neighbor, reported ARY NEWS.

Talking to newsmen here Friday, the FM said Pakistan wants result-oriented dialogue with India, adding that the bilateral talks between the neighboring countries are in the greater interest of the region.

“Pakistan wants fruitful discussion with India for the resolution of all outstanding disputes between the two nations rather than carrying out just photo sessions,” Qureshi added.

FM asks India not to waste Pakistan time,11/20/2009 9:43:30 PM

India not serious for talks: FO​

Updated at: 1922 PST, Friday, November 20, 2009

ISLAMABAD: Foreign Office Spokesman Abdul Basit said India does not seem intent on initiating the composite talks with Pakistan, Geo News reports Friday.

In an interview today, the FO spokesman said if Pakistan and India do not hold talks, it would be tantamount to the accomplishment of the terrorists’ agenda.

Pakistan wishes the commencement of the composite talks with India, not just a photo session, adding his country wants fruitful negotiations with its neighbor.

The FO spokesman said if the negotiations are not jump-started, it would be a step forward towards the completion of terrorists’ agenda, adding it seems India does not want peace in the region and is not serious in resolution of issues relating Kashmir and water.

The FO spokesman Abdul Basit said India wants to dillydally the resolution of problems by jettisoning the negotiations.

India not serious for talks: FO - GEO.tv

finally people from FO grew some balls

 

[Iggy]

Well I think its the same dialogue India is saying to Pakistan..why wasting time in talking if innocent people are still dying??Tell me how can we achieve meaningful dialogue?look at the last three peace process..can you say that India didn't tried??who destroyed the Lahore peace process??your General and most the guys in these forum openly support in for Kargil debacle..we lost our soldiers..

Look at Agra summit??after that your home grown terrorists attacked our Parliament..Is it our fault ??and last look at the last peace talk we had..for one year not a single bullet being fired across the border and then 10 terrorists came to my country from your country and killed innocent lives..Dont tell conspiracy theories..Atleast 4 of them were identified as Pakistanis by your government and also dont tell that LeT is banned because to me changing the name of an organization doesn't change the intentions..

So all these happening in our country,. can you blame us for doubting the real intentions of Pakistani Government towards peace..and how can peace be achieved innocents still dies due to terrorist activites??Take some genuine steps in controlling the organizations then we can have peace talks