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Pakistan wants combat copters

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Pakistan wants combat copters
By Eli Lake
The Washington Times Online Edition

Pakistan is seeking advanced U.S. attack helicopters and other weapons as part of a comprehensive arms package to bolster preparations for what its military is calling a "silent surge" of more than 100,000 troops into the mountain lairs of al Qaeda's senior leadership in the country's Northwest Frontier Province.

"I have been ambassador here for two years, and all I have to show for it is eight secondhand Mi-17 transport helicopters for a war that requires helicopters to root out al Qaeda and the Taliban," Pakistan's ambassador to Washington, Husain Haqqani, said in an interview with The Washington Times.

The ambassador said, "Military operations would have been quicker and much easier to plan and execute if we had the equipment. We have had tremendous attrition and a lot of loss of lives because of not having the right equipment."

The $2.5 billion in arms that Pakistan has requested includes new helicopter gunships, including AH-1W and the Apache-64-D; armed helicopters, such as the AH-6 and MD-530 Little Bird; and utility and cargo helicopters, such as the UH-60 Black Hawk, the CH-47 D Chinook and the UH-1Y Huey.

Pentagon Press Secretary Geoff Morrell said the U.S. government is aware of its ally's military wish list.

"The Pakistani military's interest in additional lift is well-known, and we have tried to help meet their needs by providing several Mi-17s. We will continue to try to help them acquire the helicopters and other equipment they require to defeat the insurgents and terrorists in their midst," Mr. Morrell said.

Pakistan's military last year reversed its policy of signing cease-fire agreements with local tribal governors as it did in 2007 and 2008 in the regions thought to be hiding places for senior al Qaeda and Taliban leaders.

The new "silent surge," however, also has cost the lives of thousands of Pakistani soldiers, including generals. The ambassador said Pakistan has lost more than 600 officers affiliated with the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), its powerful and influential military intelligence arm.

Pakistan also has lost three one-star generals and one three-star general in combat. Five other generals have been killed in terrorist attacks.

Pakistani military officials have said their forces have a total of just 26 combat and transport helicopters for a counterinsurgency war in a mountainous region where helicopters provide a critical advantage.

But the Pakistani wish list also includes equipment that is not traditionally associated with counterinsurgency or mountain warfare. The Pakistanis are also requesting M1A1 tanks and M113A3 armored personnel carriers, as well as air-defense missiles, such as the Stinger, the Javelin and the Hawk.

The list also includes a request for unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), among the newest and deadliest high-tech arms.

The CIA operates UAVs in Pakistan for missile strikes against al Qaeda and Taliban leaders. The CIA operations, which are not publicly acknowledged by either government, have caused tensions in the past with Pakistan's military, which argues that it should take the lead in overseeing the drone war in the remote, largely ungoverned tribal provinces.

Sen. Carl Levin, Michigan Democrat and chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, told The Washington Times that he was waiting for an assessment from the State Department and the Pentagon before commenting on the Pakistani arms request.

"We have provided a lot of equipment to Pakistan," he said. "We have seen some progress from them in some areas of the country, and we have seen less willingness in other areas."

Pakistan has declined to send its troops into North Waziristan. Pakistani officials say they lack the helicopters to fight in the region. Some U.S. officials have pointed out political considerations for Islamabad if an offensive is launched in that region.

Sen. John McCain, Arizona Republican and ranking member of the Armed Services Committee, said in an interview that "we ought to at least consider this request." But he also added that the U.S. should provide "better training and maintenance for Pakistan's military."

The senator added, "There are continued concerns about this relationship between the ISI and the Taliban."

But he also noted that a year ago, no one would have predicted that Pakistan's military would take on the Taliban and al Qaeda redoubts in the Northwest Frontier Province. "There is a good argument to provide the equipment they need," he said.

Retired Army Lt. Gen. David W. Barno, who commanded coalition forces in Afghanistan from 2003 to 2005, said the helicopters Pakistan wants would be useful to counterinsurgency operations.
 
Pakistan can lease the equipment from US and return it after the operations are over. Pakistan only needs to buy weapons that can be useful in a war against India. Any of the US weapons cannot be used against the big Indian threat accumulating from the East.

Remember those useless American F-104s,B-57s and F-86 Sabres aircraft without spare parts scrapped after spending billions. Lets learn from the past and build the future with our experience.

We need to reduce this list and go for other sources.
 
Pakistan wants combat copters
By Eli Lake
The Washington Times Online Edition

Pakistan is seeking advanced U.S. attack helicopters and other weapons as part of a comprehensive arms package to bolster preparations for what its military is calling a "silent surge" of more than 100,000 troops into the mountain lairs of al Qaeda's senior leadership in the country's Northwest Frontier Province.

"I have been ambassador here for two years, and all I have to show for it is eight secondhand Mi-17 transport helicopters for a war that requires helicopters to root out al Qaeda and the Taliban," Pakistan's ambassador to Washington, Husain Haqqani, said in an interview with The Washington Times.

The ambassador said, "Military operations would have been quicker and much easier to plan and execute if we had the equipment. We have had tremendous attrition and a lot of loss of lives because of not having the right equipment."

The $2.5 billion in arms that Pakistan has requested includes new helicopter gunships, including AH-1W and the Apache-64-D; armed helicopters, such as the AH-6 and MD-530 Little Bird; and utility and cargo helicopters, such as the UH-60 Black Hawk, the CH-47 D Chinook and the UH-1Y Huey.

Pentagon Press Secretary Geoff Morrell said the U.S. government is aware of its ally's military wish list.

"The Pakistani military's interest in additional lift is well-known, and we have tried to help meet their needs by providing several Mi-17s. We will continue to try to help them acquire the helicopters and other equipment they require to defeat the insurgents and terrorists in their midst," Mr. Morrell said.

Pakistan's military last year reversed its policy of signing cease-fire agreements with local tribal governors as it did in 2007 and 2008 in the regions thought to be hiding places for senior al Qaeda and Taliban leaders.

The new "silent surge," however, also has cost the lives of thousands of Pakistani soldiers, including generals. The ambassador said Pakistan has lost more than 600 officers affiliated with the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), its powerful and influential military intelligence arm.

Pakistan also has lost three one-star generals and one three-star general in combat. Five other generals have been killed in terrorist attacks.

Pakistani military officials have said their forces have a total of just 26 combat and transport helicopters for a counterinsurgency war in a mountainous region where helicopters provide a critical advantage.

But the Pakistani wish list also includes equipment that is not traditionally associated with counterinsurgency or mountain warfare. The Pakistanis are also requesting M1A1 tanks and M113A3 armored personnel carriers, as well as air-defense missiles, such as the Stinger, the Javelin and the Hawk.

The list also includes a request for unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), among the newest and deadliest high-tech arms.

The CIA operates UAVs in Pakistan for missile strikes against al Qaeda and Taliban leaders. The CIA operations, which are not publicly acknowledged by either government, have caused tensions in the past with Pakistan's military, which argues that it should take the lead in overseeing the drone war in the remote, largely ungoverned tribal provinces.

Sen. Carl Levin, Michigan Democrat and chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, told The Washington Times that he was waiting for an assessment from the State Department and the Pentagon before commenting on the Pakistani arms request.

"We have provided a lot of equipment to Pakistan," he said. "We have seen some progress from them in some areas of the country, and we have seen less willingness in other areas."

Pakistan has declined to send its troops into North Waziristan. Pakistani officials say they lack the helicopters to fight in the region. Some U.S. officials have pointed out political considerations for Islamabad if an offensive is launched in that region.

Sen. John McCain, Arizona Republican and ranking member of the Armed Services Committee, said in an interview that "we ought to at least consider this request." But he also added that the U.S. should provide "better training and maintenance for Pakistan's military."

The senator added, "There are continued concerns about this relationship between the ISI and the Taliban."

But he also noted that a year ago, no one would have predicted that Pakistan's military would take on the Taliban and al Qaeda redoubts in the Northwest Frontier Province. "There is a good argument to provide the equipment they need," he said.

Retired Army Lt. Gen. David W. Barno, who commanded coalition forces in Afghanistan from 2003 to 2005, said the helicopters Pakistan wants would be useful to counterinsurgency operations.

if even 50% of this wish-list is provided it will indeed be a big step! but i have some 'lingering' doubts.
 


The $2.5 billion in arms that Pakistan has requested includes new helicopter gunships, including AH-1W and the Apache-64-D; armed helicopters, such as the AH-6 and MD-530 Little Bird; and utility and cargo helicopters, such as the UH-60 Black Hawk, the CH-47 D Chinook and the UH-1Y Huey.



Now this list is something surprizing for me.. i m not an expert so i would need someone's help here but why it includes different types of attack helos and transports helos?? i think whether one should buy Cobra or Apache or this MD-530. Also cargo helos UH60 or CH47 or UH1Y.
sorry my be im getting it wrong but why 3 different helos for one same role?

But may be they just wanted to have all option available so if one is not allowed they go for the other one.

But the Pakistani wish list also includes equipment that is not traditionally associated with counterinsurgency or mountain warfare. The Pakistanis are also requesting M1A1 tanks and M113A3 armored personnel carriers, as well as air-defense missiles, such as the Stinger, the Javelin and the Hawk.

Also cannot understand the reason for asking M1A1 tanks..... I think our Alkhalid is doing pretty well so why american tanks???
 
Also cannot understand the reason for asking M1A1 tanks..... I think our Alkhalid is doing pretty well so why american tanks???

In short, in the name of military aid, Pakistan wants to go with everything that they can lay their hands on, fighters, missiles, tanks, armoured brigades, choppers....

Making hay while the sun shines, huh!

Now don't tell me that you also guys also want the B-2's and the B-52's.
 
I highly doubt this report ... Pakistan asking Blackhawk, chinook and Apache all in one go also M1 Abram tanks... this report is nuts...
 
I dont think u people required special chopper to counter Taliban...even a simple civil chopper having gun attached to it can counter taliban...but if ur target is india...
then i will say....you will not get anything....lol
 
Leasing them, as somebody already mentioned, would be a good option. Saves on money and unnecessary usage clause hassles.
 
So , what's the exchange rate here.

Pakistan will take back 1000 square feet of its country for every F-16 it get's.

We can see the value of PAkistan to the people running it.
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This is something i don't get , if Pakistan is just buying these from America why don't they just buy them , why do they make excuses , saying we need them for this and that . Why link them together.

They are clearly trying to get them at reduced price or as part of aid for WOT ,
but in truth they are used to fight India.

Why you need stinger missiles for Taliban ?

In fact why are tehy linked with WoT

Why can't Pak just but them normally like anyother nation , if they want them so much.

They are not buying anything, its all donation/aid/charity. They want all the stuff in military aid.
 
Come on guys dont cry......

Javeline (Can be ours new Fire and forget missile :D)
Stinger
M1A2 (really love to have it in PA alone side AK2 and AK 1)
AMRAAM
M113
Chinook
Super Cobra



All are for taliban.......



Still anybody believe that F16 is not for India is real stupid.....
 
They are not buying anything, its all donation/aid/charity. They want all the stuff in military aid.

The usual Indian mentality. Nothing can stop it.

Its seems someone's arse in Pakistan's neighbor, ohhhh yeah remembers its India's, burning like hell.

:rofl::rofl:

Couldn't say anything else, start posting the cheap shots, typical & expected.
 
The usual Indian mentality. Nothing can stop it.

Its seems someone's arse in Pakistan's neighbor, ohhhh yeah remembers its India's, burning like hell.

:rofl::rofl:

Couldn't say anything else, start posting the cheap shots, typical & expected.

Cmon man, u r a moderator, u cant use such language. Only full members and senior members can use such language. :D
 
The usual Indian mentality. Nothing can stop it.

Its seems someone's arse in Pakistan's neighbor, ohhhh yeah remembers its India's, burning like hell.

:rofl::rofl:

Couldn't say anything else, start posting the cheap shots, typical & expected.

Is anything wrong or unreal in post?

And pak is getting weapons because of India indirectly and also directly.

As our govt. is just giving statements for public consumption and not opposing it in reality. Otherwise things would have been different.

Its 2010 not 70s, the things has been changed dramatically.
 
By the way the report seems way over exaggerated, Black Hawks, M1A1 Abrams, M113s, AW-1W & Apaches both at same time, MD-530, Hawk SAM and other stuff all for 2.5B only ?? They want one piece of each weapon system or what.

Very much improbable.

The major things which PA right now needs are attack helicopters and transport helicopters on priority. Other systems are not required and as per our past relationship with US, the sanctions thing, its highly unlikely Pakistan will equip itself so much with US weapons and in that large amount. And systems which are of no major use for us.

All the author wanted was to increase the length of the report, nothing else.
 
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