Pakistan Vs Saudistan

[Spring Onion]

Ok time out Ladies

 

[dr.umer]

Dear Neo,
When (means) faith Takes over (goal) of Humanity these problems occur in every society . Faith has to serve humanity and when faith and ethics collide its ethics which shall triumph .. for this Culture is an important tool ...

I disagree.

How did you reach this conclusion that "Faith takes over Humanity". You are getting it wrong here. Faith in any religion, if believed in with good intention, always bring prosparity to humanity.

Lets come to culture now. How it evolves? Cultures, apart from many things, comprise of customs and traditions. From where do you think these customs and traditions come? From one's faith partially if not compeltely.

It can never be Faith VS Humanity what you are trying to portray.

 

[xishan786]

Dear Neo,

When (means) faith Takes over (goal) of Humanity these problems occur in every society . Faith has to serve humanity and when faith and ethics collide its ethics which shall triumph .. for this Culture is an important tool ..
However the concept of Ummah tries to overload the Arab culture on the local people ..

What the hell do u mean by faith and ethics collide? and culture??? Islam in not a faith its a "deen" way of life and islamic culture is face to the world and faith and humainity is building brcks of islam.

without insulting any one but I feel it shame full that we all are more then avid to follow western dress code but when we talk about islamic culture this discussion of alien culture being imposed on local population? Wering ties pant tooo in not our culture similiarly talkingin english is not our culture and list goes on why is that when we talk about islamic values we rae told that they tend to be more Arabic then of Islamic??

Brothers I feel that this conflict between pro Islamic and Pro west is not going to end without its only logical result, totally dominance of islam and islamic values in Pakistan.

Do I need to take u t Tehreek Pakistan "Pakistan Ka mutlub kiya La Ila Ha ILLALLAH"? why are people allergic to islmic culture and values? point is it was not 30 years before but 60 years ago and it was not the government but People of subcontinenet who sacrificed a lot for this Islam.

I dont know why every one wants his own brand of Islam? some want consession for music some for dance some wouldlike to have liquor alllowed. Some like to see women without hiijab. yar come on immigration is open in canda australia go there leave this only country in the world made in the name of ALLAH. Dont try to define ISLAM it is in Quran and Explained by ALLAH's Prophet and 4 Khulfae Rashdenn if u have proble with it nobody is forcing Islam on you , go some where else let us pratice Islam here---- point is that you just cant take thoes 5 6 Ayyats about Jihad from Quran. So irritant element for west in syllabus is goingto remain weather some one likes it or not.

Sorry brothers but I think its wise for us , Pakistan to realise ourselves come over the crises of identity and become Momin and lets start thinking about Renisasnce of Islam, Ira of dominance of ISLAM.

... last but not least we all bow our heads toward Kaba house of ALLAH five times a day, Its in Saudi Arabia, If that land is so dear to ALLAH so i think we should not be that much allergic to their values.

 

[Kharian_Beast]

On another note, if someone enforces religion on me via punishment, or if there is a moral or religious police putting surveillance on people and beating people for missing prayers or being in public with a female or breaking down your door to arrest you because your little brother was looking at something dirty on the internet, I give every nation my consent to start all the wars they want on them.

Religion is a personal issue. I don't want anyone enforcing it on me, but I also don't want to see it blasphemed every time I get on the internet, especially not on a Republic of Pakistan's military forum. It goes both ways.

Use religion to better yourself. If you can't, stfu...simple.

 

[Neo]

Anyone who can speak Arabic is Arab, according to the Prophet (pbuh). I guess we have many "inferiors" among us. Adopting Arabic names is your parents choice, don't bring my parents into this or this thread will get real ugly.

Thank YOu Kharian for pointing to adoptation of names. I did not notice that what Neo was saying.

Now coming towards names well Neo i guess you forget that its not the Arab names rather its the matter of Islamic names.

Prophet (PBUH) said that adopt best of the name which has good meaning.

I dont know about other parts but in NWFP we still have familes that choose names from Quran and such names which are Islamic having good meanings.

SO Neo you are mistaken that people choose names of Arabs and their culture or dresses.

Look at the sharp difference between their culture and ours, their dresses and ours.

Ohh...I wasn't referring to arab names for humans, nothing wrong with that and mostly these names are not arab but Islamic as pointed out by Jana.
Whats wrong is that we've adapted arab names for buildings, shopping malls, business centers, weapons...etc.

Just go to any random city in Pakistan and you'll see arab names in real estate business.
Even here in Amsterdam some Pakistani business use arab names for their little enterprices. There's a small snackbar near my place in Amsterdam owned by a Pakistani family from Faisalabad who've never lived in any arab country as I was told. They named the place "Al-Khan"

Whats wrong with Pakistani names, why this obsession with arab?

 

[qaisar52]

What the hell do u mean by faith and ethics
Do I need to take u t Tehreek Pakistan "Pakistan Ka mutlub kiya La Ila Ha ILLALLAH"? why are people allergic to islmic culture and values? point is it was not 30 years before but 60 years ago and it was not the government but People of subcontinenet who sacrificed a lot for this Islam.

... last but not least we all bow our heads toward Kaba house of ALLAH five times a day, Its in Saudi Arabia, If that land is so dear to ALLAH so i think we should not be that much allergic to their values.[/quote]


Regarding this my dear Yes Kaba is in Saudi Arabia does not means that what ever Saudi say is right. Those peoples were also Muslim living in Madinah and Mackey who drove Prophet Mohammed peace be upon him grandson out of Madinah and Shaeed him and his Family members and took their Family (Ladies) with out abya city by city.

I am not a Shia religion but As a Muslim I study all the religion and history books which make some time Muslim crazy when they read these unfair thing happen to Prophet Family.

So plz don’t write this type of crap “Allergic". You can count on me about the Islamic history.

Thanks.

 

[Neo]

Why are you giving me this lecture? Am I the one that needs a briefing about the differences between a culture and a religion? I thought I hinted at that correction a few posts ago. Over and out.

Nobody is giving lecture, we're just having a debate. You know, people debate in forum, thats what its for.

 

[Kharian_Beast]

Ohh...I wasn't referring to arab names for humans, nothing wrong with that and mostly these names are not arab but Islamic as pointed out by Jana.
Whats wrong is that we've adapted arab names for buildings, shopping malls, business centers, weapons...etc.

Just go to any random city in Pakistan and you'll see arab names in real estate business.
Even here in Amsterdam some Pakistani business use arab names for their little enterprices. There's a small snackbar near my place in Amsterdam owned by a Pakistani family from Faisalabad who've never lived in any arab country as I was told. They named the place "Al-Khan"

Whats wrong with Pakistani names, why this obsession with arab?

Most of those "Arabic" names that have nothing to do with religion are our spineless politicians haphazardly naming cities and monuments after narcissist Arab kings because of donations and other usual corruption. "Faizalabad" is an example. I don't see any "Musharrafbad" in Saudi.

 

[Kharian_Beast]

Nobody is giving lecture, we're just having a debate. You know, people debate in forum, thats what its for.

Feel free to debate right on ahead. I must have misunderstood the context of what you had written earlier.

But the overall theme of this discussion is, choose Islam or choose Pakistan. I choose both. They can coexist and always have. Why now the sudden change? NWO ? Zionism? Feeling left out by the cool and swanky athiests? Loray maro subkho, apna mazhab aur apna watan Zindabad.

 

[muse]

Kharian

Please do not misunderstand, but the theme is SAUDIZATION - The choice is between our understanding if Islam and that of the Saudi.

To suggest that the theme of the debate is Islam or Pakistan is to suggest that the Saudi version or understanding of islam is Islam itself and that is simply an error.

The saudi version sees God as vengeful, and angry, whereas we are persuaded that while Allah has 99 names, Quran uses Rahman and Rahim with such frequency to describe Allah, so as to suggest that Allah is best understood as just that, Rahman and Rahim.

Religion is primarily for sinners - what use have saints for it?? And swho needs and be redeemed by the Mercy and compassion of Allah more than we sinners?

Let the Saudi keep any understanding they wish to have or are forced to have, we need not be persuaded by anything other the knowledge that we are recepients of a "invitation" to Mercy and Compassion and that Islam, the religion, not the brand name, is defined by a humane approach (Mercy and Compassion) to humanity.

 

[Kharian_Beast]

Kharian

Please do not misunderstand, but the theme is SAUDIZATION - The choice is between our understanding if Islam and that of the Saudi.

To suggest that the theme of the debate is Islam or Pakistan is to suggest that the Saudi version or understanding of islam is Islam itself and that is simply an error.

The saudi version sees God as vengeful, and angry, whereas we are persuaded that while Allah has 99 names, Quran uses Rahman and Rahim with such frequency to describe Allah, so as to suggest that Allah is best understood as just that, Rahman and Rahim.

Religion is primarily for sinners - what use have saints for it?? And swho needs and be redeemed by the Mercy and compassion of Allah more than we sinners?

Let the Saudi keep any understanding they wish to have or are forced to have, we need not be persuaded by anything other the knowledge that we are recepients of a "invitation" to Mercy and Compassion and that Islam, the religion, not the brand name, is defined by a humane approach (Mercy and Compassion) to humanity.

This debate requires a lot of thought, I respect your point of views and am with you against Wahabi practices and taliban frame of mind. But I just wanted to be sure to let my comrades know that I am both Pakistani and a Muslim who knows my religion well without any Saudi influence and that such fears are pretty redundant in a country that is already very Islamic. This issue holds more water in Europe to be honest.

One quick solution to minimizing a radicalization threat to Pakistan would be to standardize the religious schooling system and only allow licensed professionals to teach not only religion but science, history, art, etc.

Another would be to tackle poverty and illiteracy. Providing public or private school systems with more funds would be beneficial.

These are the true weapons against extremism. But when we start suppressing a nation with the army and lying infront of people's faces while jeopardizing national security, this is as close to Saudization as you can possible achieve.

 

[muse]

I just wanted to be sure to let my comrades know that I am both Pakistani and a Muslim

If they doubt that, are they friends??

 

[Kharian_Beast]

If they doubt that, are they friends??

Please stop taking my quotes out of context.

 

[Spring Onion]

Ohh...I wasn't referring to arab names for humans, nothing wrong with that and mostly these names are not arab but Islamic as pointed out by Jana.
Whats wrong is that we've adapted arab names for buildings, shopping malls, business centers, weapons...etc.

Just go to any random city in Pakistan and you'll see arab names in real estate business.
Even here in Amsterdam some Pakistani business use arab names for their little enterprices. There's a small snackbar near my place in Amsterdam owned by a Pakistani family from Faisalabad who've never lived in any arab country as I was told. They named the place "Al-Khan"

Whats wrong with Pakistani names, why this obsession with arab?

Then why we have this onsession over adopting Saudi trend in naming the shops or plazas when here in Pakistan rather in India too people are also obsessed with adopting Western trend of naming even their 2 marla house as "Villa"

I had seen that small houses are named Villas, castels and so on.


People in sub-continent even give nick names to their kids such as jimmy, whereas in West they at times name their dogs as jimmy, peter also.

BTW according to Western minded liberalism and freedom of expression

Are we justified to hate people for their birth right to adopt any culture or names they want.

 

[muse]

Arab TV channel owners concerned over fatwa calling for their murder
By Mariam Al Hakeem, Correspondent
Published: September 13, 2008, 22:11


Riyadh: Owners of Arab satellite channels have expressed concern over a fatwa by the chairman of the Saudi Judicial Council, Shaikh Saleh Al Luhaidan authorising the murder of owners of Arabic satellite TV channels that broadcast programmes considered immoral.

The fatwa came during a programme transmitted live by the Holy Quran Radio on Wednesday in which he said "satellite channels caused the deviance of thousands of people as they show seduction, obscenity and vulgarity".

He added: "Certainly it is permitted to kill those who encourage corrupt beliefs."

He was answering a listener's questions during the daily radio programme Light in the Path, about Islam's view on satellite TV channels that broadcast "bad programmes" during Ramadan.

The fatwa sparked controversy on websites while owners of TV channels expressed their concern.

Gulf News tried to contact Shaikh Al Luhaidan but all attempts failed. Shaikh Abdul Mohsen Bin Nasser Al Obaikan, adviser in the Ministry of Justice and member of the Shura Council, criticised the fatwa, saying it would lead to disorder.