PAKISTAN TO SPEND $12 BILLION ON ARMS IN 2016-2024

[Arsalan]

IHS Jane’s has projected that Pakistan could spend $12 billion U.S. on big-ticket weapon systems in the period of 2016 to 2024. For prospective arms vendors, the market of focus in Pakistan will likely center on a number of major land armament programs, such as main battle tanks (MBT), self-propelled howitzer (SPH), armoured personnel carriers (APC), and light armoured vehicles.

In terms of MBTs, the al-Khalid II is expected to be the leading program (at a projected value of $1 billion U.S.). The Talha tracked APC will continue to be inducted as well (at a value of $1.1 billion U.S.). According to Jane’s, possible “opportunities exist for a self-propelled mortar, an APC and a SPH” at values of $1.5 billion, $1.1 billion and $844 million, respectively.

Jane’s also noted that Pakistan’s economy is projected to continue struggling, with its GDP growth rate anchored to a little over 3.5% over the next five years. Despite that, Pakistan has increased its defence expenditure for the coming year from 2.3% of its GDP to 2.54%.

Comment and Analysis
Although Pakistan’s projected expenditure rate is on the lower side compared to that of other powers in Asia and the Middle East, it is a sizable amount in its own right. Pakistan is evidently looking to reinvest most of that money back into its domestic industry, specifically existing solutions.

The al-Khalid II main battle tank (MBT) has returned to the development pipeline. It is not a new program, but changes in the technology market will likely impact the improvements it will exhibit over the al-Khalid and al-Khalid I MBTs. For example, Pakistan could potentially consider acquiring Ukraine’s recently revealed 1500hp diesel engine, which is derived from the KMDB 6TD-2 currently used on the al-Khalid. Pakistan may also try to procure some of the technology onboard Turkey’s Altay MBT, most notably its electronics and Akkor self-protection suite, which is capable of soft and hard-kill defensive measures.

Well it is good to know that some source as respectable as Janes have thought on the same lines. I have been saying this for quite some time amid all those talks of Type99 and MBT 3000 and T84 and Altay.

This approach is the one that makes more sense than any other proposal our enthusiasts came up with. Just select a main body that is stable and fit your required specification for logistics etc. Fit in an engine from Ukraine, get Altay team on board for some electronics and other sub system, integrate sights, select protection systems and then fit it all in to make one compatible machine that serves you best. Excellent idea with lots of benefits other than this new talk itself. One thing that I would love to be added to this, as I have pointed in all those previous posts, is platform commonality. I hope the same engine supplier can supply a relatively smaller engine to be used in essentially same chassis/body to form the base of IFV, APC or mechanized mortar!! That would be perfect. Our own little Armata!

The expense of doing all this will be in same range as buying some hundred tanks from a supplier as some people have been suggesting but the benefits will be much more than getting a new tank. Just to highlight a few, selecting from all those subsystems available to find one that suites our needs the best will be a learning process in itself. The technical know how and insight in procuring and then making that system at home or even integrating with with the tank will be of great value. It will help make possible homemade derivatives and to also can be used to upgrade the existing pool of tanks. Not to mention if we can include that platform commonality which will be a huge achievement and will address our needs for quite some time to come.

This is what I have been trying to communicate with you @Zarvan

@Dazzler @Quwa @fatman17 you will find this article interesting.
@Slav Defence @TaimiKhan

 

[Darth Vader]

HEY!!!
Toyota za good

its a good as vehicle , Cheap . Good mileage , easy and fast but it doesnt provide protection in the modern warfare people sitting inside it are sitting ducks for attackers . ;minding Checking the history how many officers and soldiers has pakistan last against terrorist in these vehicles if they had decent vehicle which could atleast offer some better protection than these how many lives it would have saved You be the judge i know budget is tight but at least it you see whats around you IRAQ . AFG and Pakistan had previous experience with afg , They should have used APC , or mraps instead of these in the start

 

[Zarvan]

Well it is good to know that some source as respectable as Janes have thought on the same lines. I have been saying this for quite some time amid all those talks of Type99 and MBT 3000 and T84 and Altay.

This approach is the one that makes more sense than any other proposal our enthusiasts came up with. Just select a main body that is stable and fit your required specification for logistics etc. Fit in an engine from Ukraine, get Altay team on board for some electronics and other sub system, integrate sights, select protection systems and then fit it all in to make one compatible machine that serves you best. Excellent idea with lots of benefits other than this new talk itself. One thing that I would love to be added to this, as I have pointed in all those previous posts, is platform commonality. I hope the same engine supplier can supply a relatively smaller engine to be used in essentially same chassis/body to form the base of IFV, APC or mechanized mortar!! That would be perfect. Our own little Armata!

The expense of doing all this will be in same range as buying some hundred tanks from a supplier as some people have been suggesting but the benefits will be much more than getting a new tank. Just to highlight a few, selecting from all those subsystems available to find one that suites our needs the best will be a learning process in itself. The technical know how and insight in procuring and then making that system at home or even integrating with with the tank will be of great value. It will help make possible homemade derivatives and to also can be used to upgrade the existing pool of tanks. Not to mention if we can include that platform commonality which will be a huge achievement and will address our needs for quite some time to come.

This is what I have been trying to communicate with you @Zarvan

@Dazzler @Quwa @fatman17 you will find this article interesting.
@Slav Defence @TaimiKhan

The projects mentioned sorry but half of the were cancelled long ago and were replaced by other projects for example indigenous SP Artillery and APC with Mortar Fire capability. Jane's just repeated the decade old story

 

[Darth Vader]

Pakistan do have a habit off too little too late

 

[Arsalan]

The projects mentioned sorry but half of the were cancelled long ago and were replaced by other projects for example indigenous SP Artillery and APC with Mortar Fire capability. Jane's just repeated the decade old story

It did, just like we keep on repeating we are buying this and that. Also if you read the article, it mentions which projects have been "re initiated" and which can be and the things are not presented as definitive, that is how it should be especially in military procurement.
Furthermore with the thing with tanks, this makes much more sense and that is all i am saying Not that my sources have confirmed this as a universal truth.

And sir i am waiting for that private conversation if you can please drop me a message.

 

[Zarvan]

It did, just like we keep on repeating we are buying this and that. Also if you read the article, it mentions which projects have been "re initiated" and which can be and the things are not presented as definitive, that is how it should be especially in military procurement.
Furthermore with the thing with tanks, this makes much more sense and that is all i am saying Not that my sources have confirmed this as a universal truth.

And sir i am waiting for that private conversation if you can please drop me a message.

Only indegenious project running is AL KHALID that too is being developed with Turkish Help. As for APC no we are looking for new APC from China and Turkey mainly. Secondly AL HAIDER is new project and one Tank will be selected and produced in Pakistan. We can expect Navy and Air Force inductions also in fact we would see those

 

[Arsalan]

Only indegenious project running is AL KHALID that too is being developed with Turkish Help. As for APC no we are looking for new APC from China and Turkey mainly. Secondly AL HAIDER is new project and one Tank will be selected and produced in Pakistan. We can expect Navy and Air Force inductions also in fact we would see those

Perhaps you should read the post again sir. I am not stating what projects are running and neither it is my place to say that. I am just saying how it SHOULD be. This is one simple point that unfortunately you always fail to grasp my friend.

What about that private conversation? There are some important things that i need to talk about. Drop me a message please.

Oh, and just to add, i wont even quote that "ALKHALID project running with Turkish help" part if i were you!

 

[New World]

LOL. Read again and comprehend properly.

Not whole of the budget could be spend on buying new items. Only a small portion is and this $12 billion is cumulative of that small portion over a decade.

you should have to read it again..

$5.6 billions are just for procurement... and
$8.6 billions are for annual defence budget...

Cost of induction of local equipment is calculated in capital acquisition cost which this figure is stating. (Else US would be spending close to zero dollars on arms)

$5.6 billions are for the procurement of foreign hardware, some of them will be produced locally..

I would not say for show, but for power projection. The same reason why US spend 700 billion USD for its defence and I see no credible threat to US from anywhere to justify that much of money.

lolx.. And US is the most aggressive nation in the world, she has destroyed more than 10 countries and killed millions of people..
is this is what india is trying to do??

 

[BetterPakistan]

Well it is good to know that some source as respectable as Janes have thought on the same lines. I have been saying this for quite some time amid all those talks of Type99 and MBT 3000 and T84 and Altay.

This approach is the one that makes more sense than any other proposal our enthusiasts came up with. Just select a main body that is stable and fit your required specification for logistics etc. Fit in an engine from Ukraine, get Altay team on board for some electronics and other sub system, integrate sights, select protection systems and then fit it all in to make one compatible machine that serves you best. Excellent idea with lots of benefits other than this new talk itself. One thing that I would love to be added to this, as I have pointed in all those previous posts, is platform commonality. I hope the same engine supplier can supply a relatively smaller engine to be used in essentially same chassis/body to form the base of IFV, APC or mechanized mortar!! That would be perfect. Our own little Armata!

The expense of doing all this will be in same range as buying some hundred tanks from a supplier as some people have been suggesting but the benefits will be much more than getting a new tank. Just to highlight a few, selecting from all those subsystems available to find one that suites our needs the best will be a learning process in itself. The technical know how and insight in procuring and then making that system at home or even integrating with with the tank will be of great value. It will help make possible homemade derivatives and to also can be used to upgrade the existing pool of tanks. Not to mention if we can include that platform commonality which will be a huge achievement and will address our needs for quite some time to come.

This is what I have been trying to communicate with you @Zarvan

@Dazzler @Quwa @fatman17 you will find this article interesting.
@Slav Defence @TaimiKhan

Absolutely right

Why altay, MBT 3000 etc when we have Al Khalid tank. Pakistan shall focus on Al Khalid 2. Get 1500hp engines from ukraine and other specifications PA like in altay, MBT 3000 and fit everything in Al khalid 2 and produce it in mass numbers for PA and try to export it instead of importing tanks, AFVs from other countries.

 

[Arsalan]

Absolutely right

Why altay, MBT 3000 etc when we have Al Khalid tank. Pakistan shall focus on Al Khalid 2. Get 1500hp engines from ukraine and other specifications PA like in altay, MBT 3000 and fit everything in Al khalid 2 and produce it in mass numbers for PA and try to export it instead of importing tanks, AFVs from other countries.

I wish people could understand that all that glitters is not gold and we stop running all those shiny gadgets. A rough and robust hardware can do the job just fine in most of the cases. The advantages of what we are discussing in here far out reach the tank itself!

 

[BetterPakistan]

I wish people could understand that all that glitters is not gold and we stop running all those shiny gadgets. A rough and robust hardware can do the job just fine in most of the cases. The advantages of what we are discussing in here far out reach the tank itself!

Dude Altay will cost about 6 million each. Why don't we spend that much money on Al Khalid 2 and make it equal to or better than Altay? Can't we do it? We can make a nuke having yield about 300-500 kt but can't enhance our tank?

The money which will be used for al khalid 2 will economically advantage Pakistan but altay won't do it nor MBT-3000.

 

[Areesh]

thats right india will infact just keep building its economy and mailitarry strength and keep buying latest stuff and pakistan will have to buy the latest stuff to have some kind of parity in tech and quality and we all know where it will lead too

It would lead to a far stronger Pakistan against which India won't ever dare to mess with.

 

[Zarvan]

Perhaps you should read the post again sir. I am not stating what projects are running and neither it is my place to say that. I am just saying how it SHOULD be. This is one simple point that unfortunately you always fail to grasp my friend.

What about that private conversation? There are some important things that i need to talk about. Drop me a message please.

Oh, and just to add, i wont even quote that "ALKHALID project running with Turkish help" part if i were you!

Well in my opinion our focus should be Tanks SP Artillery for Army and Frigates with VLS tubes for Navy and around 40 High End Fighter Jets for Air Force along with getting more F-16 and increasing number of JF-17

 

[Quwa]

Well it is good to know that some source as respectable as Janes have thought on the same lines. I have been saying this for quite some time amid all those talks of Type99 and MBT 3000 and T84 and Altay.

This approach is the one that makes more sense than any other proposal our enthusiasts came up with. Just select a main body that is stable and fit your required specification for logistics etc. Fit in an engine from Ukraine, get Altay team on board for some electronics and other sub system, integrate sights, select protection systems and then fit it all in to make one compatible machine that serves you best. Excellent idea with lots of benefits other than this new talk itself. One thing that I would love to be added to this, as I have pointed in all those previous posts, is platform commonality. I hope the same engine supplier can supply a relatively smaller engine to be used in essentially same chassis/body to form the base of IFV, APC or mechanized mortar!! That would be perfect. Our own little Armata!

The expense of doing all this will be in same range as buying some hundred tanks from a supplier as some people have been suggesting but the benefits will be much more than getting a new tank. Just to highlight a few, selecting from all those subsystems available to find one that suites our needs the best will be a learning process in itself. The technical know how and insight in procuring and then making that system at home or even integrating with with the tank will be of great value. It will help make possible homemade derivatives and to also can be used to upgrade the existing pool of tanks. Not to mention if we can include that platform commonality which will be a huge achievement and will address our needs for quite some time to come.

This is what I have been trying to communicate with you @Zarvan

@Dazzler @Quwa @fatman17 you will find this article interesting.
@Slav Defence @TaimiKhan

Lol - Jane's just said there's an al-Khalid II, I added the finer details of discussion (e.g. 1500hp Ukrainian engine, new internals, etc). That said, we could also consider changing the turret for al-Khalid 2, especially if we manage to acquire improved armour technology. Ukraine did it with the Oplot and we even did it with the Zarrar, no reason why we can't with the al-Khalid. The new turret could be modeled off the K2 Black Panther and Oplot in terms of design.

 

[Tipu7]

AK is different weight category, it's space is limited, meaning you can arm it with limited sub systems.
I doubt it can support soft kill / hard kill APS at the same time + mm wave radar.
One of "prime" disadvantage of T series tanks is circular auto loading mechanism.
Crew sit in cupola with armaments surrounding it, once a anti tank shell manage to penetrate inside, it blew up entire turret by detonating tank own ammo.
We have seen this tragedy with T55 / T64 / T72 ......

Altay rule out this issue,.........

Dude Altay will cost about 6 million each. Why don't we spend that much money on Al Khalid 2 and make it equal to or better than Altay? Can't we do it? We can make a nuke having yield about 300-500 kt but can't enhance our tank?

The money which will be used for al khalid 2 will economically advantage Pakistan but altay won't do it nor MBT-3000.