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Pakistan to raise 12,000 Marines in a new branch of Navy

Hi,

With the expansion of the nautical boundaries, a new port, other security threats, the navy needs it oen force to command independantly of other forces.

Navy has not forgotten the treason, treachery and cowardice of 1971 of the pakistan air force heirarchy.

For that reason alone they wanted their own aircraft, they also should have batteries of their own SA missiles and their own troops under their command so that there is no delay in response time or strike.
 
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Bloody waste of money. What is the point of Marines? What seaborne attack are we contemplating? Attacking Oman? Or securing the sea?

First please, please please can we secure Karachi and FATA then we can think of the sea.


We already have a Marine Corps.

From what I have heard, these guys are not Marines in the traditional sense of the word but were rather interpreted as so by the media. They are actually an anti-piracy maritime force that is to be raised to ensure the safe passage of mercantile vessels through Pakistani waters and also guard the string of ports that have to be constructed or have been constructed at Gwadar, Pasni, Ormara and Karachi.
All of this is very Alpha phase stuff and the original plan will be subject to many changes before its implementation is carried out.
Or maybe expanding the Marine Corps... I just hope they get rid of that shitty camo n induct a new rifle!

Hi,

With the expansion of the nautical boundaries, a new port, other security threats, the navy needs it oen force to command independantly of other forces.

Navy has not forgotten the treason, treachery and cowardice of 1971 of the pakistan air force heirarchy.

For that reason alone they wanted their own aircraft, they also should have batteries of their own SA missiles and their own troops under their command so that there is no delay in response time or strike.
What keeps that navy from induct 1 or 2 sqds of JF-17s? Or perhaps 1 SQD of J-11s from China .. Instead they are relying on loaned pilots from PAF..
 
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I believe the purpose is to protect Gawadar port.
 
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We already have a Marine Corps.


Or maybe expanding the Marine Corps... I just hope they get rid of that shitty camo n induct a new rifle!


What keeps that navy from induct 1 or 2 sqds of JF-17s? Or perhaps 1 SQD of J-11s from China .. Instead they are relying on loaned pilots from PAF..
Navy budget is way to low
 
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We already have a Marine Corps.


Or maybe expanding the Marine Corps... I just hope they get rid of that shitty camo n induct a new rifle!


What keeps that navy from induct 1 or 2 sqds of JF-17s? Or perhaps 1 SQD of J-11s from China .. Instead they are relying on loaned pilots from PAF..


Hi,

Air force already has an established training and operation capability. But these sqdrns would be under direct control of navy. Like navy dont want to call air force and tell them thisis what we need.

As paf will manage and maintain the sqdrns, they can dictate what they want to do.
 
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Navy budget is way to low
Enough to get 8 subs and other stuff but not locally produced jets? Yeah right ...

Hi,

Air force already has an established training and operation capability. But these sqdrns would be under direct control of navy. Like navy dont want to call air force and tell them thisis what we need.

As paf will manage and maintain the sqdrns, they can dictate what they want to do.

Sir, I'm talking about the navy itself establishing a fighter wing.

2 sqds of JF-17 would be enough for now .. Training well the navy can always use PAF facilities and later establish its own with time and resources permit.


@niaz. @Rashid Mahmood @fatman17 Your valued opinions!
 
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Enough to get 8 subs and other stuff but not locally produced jets? Yeah right ...



Sir, I'm talking about the navy itself establishing a fighter wing.

2 sqds of JF-17 would be enough for now .. Training well the navy can always use PAF facilities and later establish its own with time and resources permit.


@niaz. @Rashid Mahmood @fatman17 Your valued opinions!


Hi,

Navy must force the issue.
 
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Enough to get 8 subs and other stuff but not locally produced jets? Yeah right ...



Sir, I'm talking about the navy itself establishing a fighter wing.

2 sqds of JF-17 would be enough for now .. Training well the navy can always use PAF facilities and later establish its own with time and resources permit.


@niaz. @Rashid Mahmood @fatman17 Your valued opinions!
Some one else is paying for them and by the way I think NAVY a year back ordered 30 JF-17
 
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I don't in reality but Pakistan Coast Guards should comes under PN control and must be merged with MSA to form just a single force of Pakistan Coast Guards. Pak Marines might have role of Air and Surface Defence which is a bit similar to Pak Coast Guards.

I think we need to put more money and emphasis on PN too. Increasing the numbers of Men from few thousands to 5 times. Revolving PN Men from regular PN force to Coast Guards and Pak Marines.
 
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Enough to get 8 subs and other stuff but not locally produced jets? Yeah right ...



Sir, I'm talking about the navy itself establishing a fighter wing.

2 sqds of JF-17 would be enough for now .. Training well the navy can always use PAF facilities and later establish its own with time and resources permit.


@niaz. @Rashid Mahmood @fatman17 Your valued opinions!

There are two points to consider:

1- Does PN need a modern anti-ship fighter?

2- Should Navy have a completely independent air arm?

Exocet Armed Mirage V’s are now quite old. With IN aircraft carriers now equipped with MIG-29K, ability of the odd squadron of AM-39 armed Mirage V is questionable. PN badly needs a modern aircraft capable of taking on Mig-29’s; I would think that a couple of squadrons of JF-17’s to say the least.

Answer to the 2nd question is not so straight forward.

Pak Navy has complete control over its helicopter fleet. Understand Maritime Patrol aircraft; even though maintained and flown by PAF personnel seconded to PN; are also under the PN command. However Mirages remain under the PAF control and stationed on PAF bases; probably because PAF has abundance of pilots & engineering staff with extensive experience on the Mirage aircraft, and having a separate section in the PN would put too much drain on the PN resources. However, there is a serious possibility that PAF command could employ the fighters dedicated to the anti-ship duties for the air defence of Karachi or for ground attack and the same many not be available when badly needed by the Navy.

Understand a Naval Forces Strategic Command has been in existence in Pakistan since 2004. A possible solution to the above problem could be that defence of the entire coastal region along with the assets in the region including air bases are placed under this command when the country is on war footing.
 
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What keeps that navy from induct 1 or 2 sqds of JF-17s? Or perhaps 1 SQD of J-11s from China .. Instead they are relying on loaned pilots from PAF..
Pakistan navy has been maintaining aircraft from the beginning. The only thing is that PAF pilots will have to train Fighter Pilots for the Navy. The transport and helicopter training is done by PN pilots.

This is wiki report so it can not be correct.
Dassault Mirage 5PA
1995 ASuW 34 Operated byPAF, then transferred toNavy[citation n

The Mirage V belongs to PAF inventory and are operated by PAF pilots, but some Navy pilots operate these too after completing a fighter pilot course at the PAF Combat Commanders School.

I don't in reality but Pakistan Coast Guards should comes under PN control and must be merged with MSA to form just a single force of Pakistan Coast Guards. Pak Marines might have role of Air and Surface Defence which is a bit similar to Pak Coast Guards.

I think we need to put more money and emphasis on PN too. Increasing the numbers of Men from few thousands to 5 times. Revolving PN Men from regular PN force to Coast Guards and Pak Marines.
The Pakistan Coast Guards is second line of defence, like Pakistan Rangers. The only thing is they are given some more Cutters and MRTP's. This would be enough fire power to get the kind of work they are assigned.

There are two points to consider:

1- Does PN need a modern anti-ship fighter?

2- Should Navy have a completely independent air arm?

Exocet Armed Mirage V’s are now quite old. With IN aircraft carriers now equipped with MIG-29K, ability of the odd squadron of AM-39 armed Mirage V is questionable. PN badly needs a modern aircraft capable of taking on Mig-29’s; I would think that a couple of squadrons of JF-17’s to say the least.

Answer to the 2nd question is not so straight forward.

Pak Navy has complete control over its helicopter fleet. Understand Maritime Patrol aircraft; even though maintained and flown by PAF personnel seconded to PN; are also under the PN command. However Mirages remain under the PAF control and stationed on PAF bases; probably because PAF has abundance of pilots & engineering staff with extensive experience on the Mirage aircraft, and having a separate section in the PN would put too much drain on the PN resources. However, there is a serious possibility that PAF command could employ the fighters dedicated to the anti-ship duties for the air defence of Karachi or for ground attack and the same many not be available when badly needed by the Navy.

Understand a Naval Forces Strategic Command has been in existence in Pakistan since 2004. A possible solution to the above problem could be that defence of the entire coastal region along with the assets in the region including air bases are placed under this command when the country is on war footing.
The Requirement of a fighter aircraft in the Navy is one which is capable of doing what Mirage V's are doing presently. JF-17 does not fulfil the the complete requirement, ie it is limited in air to air supremacy. JF-17 also lacks in the range department though stand off weapons and cruse missile could reduce the gap.

The Navy rightly requested for J-16's but that is a big aircraft.

It would have been interesting if the Navy asked for F-16's later blocks 50-52/60-61 which are capable of similar performance to Mirage V's. Unfortunatly the issue would be
There are two points to consider:

1- Does PN need a modern anti-ship fighter?

2- Should Navy have a completely independent air arm?

Exocet Armed Mirage V’s are now quite old. With IN aircraft carriers now equipped with MIG-29K, ability of the odd squadron of AM-39 armed Mirage V is questionable. PN badly needs a modern aircraft capable of taking on Mig-29’s; I would think that a couple of squadrons of JF-17’s to say the least.

Answer to the 2nd question is not so straight forward.

Pak Navy has complete control over its helicopter fleet. Understand Maritime Patrol aircraft; even though maintained and flown by PAF personnel seconded to PN; are also under the PN command. However Mirages remain under the PAF control and stationed on PAF bases; probably because PAF has abundance of pilots & engineering staff with extensive experience on the Mirage aircraft, and having a separate section in the PN would put too much drain on the PN resources. However, there is a serious possibility that PAF command could employ the fighters dedicated to the anti-ship duties for the air defence of Karachi or for ground attack and the same many not be available when badly needed by the Navy.

Understand a Naval Forces Strategic Command has been in existence in Pakistan since 2004. A possible solution to the above problem could be that defence of the entire coastal region along with the assets in the region including air bases are placed under this command when the country is on war footing.

Pakistan Navy requires a replacement of Mirage V's and is looking towards a similar aircraft that can do the tasks currently done by these aircraft. Mirage V's are both air superiority and anti ship bombers which also carry out nuclear strikes.

PAF would have liked an other French aircraft ie Mirage 2000-9 or Rafale but it is not going to happen.

Hence J-16 was chosen by the Navy which can do both the roles and also complement PAF. Though this was not how PAF was thinking they wanted PN to have JF-17's. JF-17 lacks in some fields.

It could have been interested if PN opted for F-16's block 50-52 /60 but the issue would be integration of weapons.
 
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Bloody waste of money. What is the point of Marines? What seaborne attack are we contemplating? Attacking Oman? Or securing the sea?

First please, please please can we secure Karachi and FATA then we can think of the sea.

Preparing for the next age of warfare, the Air, Sea battle doctrine?
 
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Preparing for the next age of warfare, the Air, Sea battle doctrine?
Don't know about that but this 12000 should be the start we should have at least 60000 Marines in future and much bigger Navy.
 
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I think it might have something to do with Saudia, a quick deployment force, maybe?
 
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Can anybody tell that who is funding defence projects recently?8 subs,Chineese,american,russian attack helis,Hellfires, new brach of navy and alot more. Its like $$$s are appearing from nowhere.
 
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