Pakistan to provide training

[Hammer]

Originally posted by Jana@Mar 20 2006, 05:01 PM
when you dont have pro-Indian government there you had this excuse how childish dear wht ISI had to do there man its all RAW out there trying hard to put democarcy (Indian stoogies )there which u havent yet succeeded yet .isnt it

[post=7407]Quoted post[/post]​

Believe me if RAW had really wanted to oust the King, they would've done it long time ago. The problem is that India wants Nepal to have both, a constitutional monarchy and a democratic govt while keeping the Maoists at bay.

 

[sword9]

Originally posted by SATAN@Mar 20 2006, 01:26 PM
I think your idea of a federation is quite absurd, since both countries are very different and nothing alike. However i would think that the only way indias poor down trodden people can live their way of life and culture...is to divide india into 2 parts, the states closer to Pakistan can form a seperate Moslem country and the hindus can go practice their ways in a pure hindu state . So why not let indias 150 millions moslems have Gujrat,Rajastan,Punjab,Kashmir form a seperate Unit ? 

That is the most absurd argument. Indian constitution is based on secularism not on religion. Pakistan was based on religion and the rational proved rather weak with the separation of its eastern wing in 1971.

 

[Spring Onion]

Originally posted by sword9+Mar 21 2006, 11:07 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sword9 &#064; Mar 21 2006, 11:07 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'>That is the most absurd argument. Indian constitution is based on secularism not on religion.

[post=7462]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b]

Well secularism yeh i wish if it was followed the way its promissed there.


<!--QuoteBegin-sword9@Mar 21 2006, 11:07 AM
Pakistan was based on religion and the rathional proved rather weak with the separation of its eastern wing in 1971.

[post=7462]Quoted post[/post]​

[/quote]
the breakup has nothing 2 do with the religion, it was follies of our politicians which were exploited by India and funded the breakup and attacked us.
And now the bengalis are threatened by the same force

 

[Hammer]

Originally posted by Jana+Mar 21 2006, 08:39 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jana &#064; Mar 21 2006, 08:39 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>Well secularism yeh i wish if it was followed the way its promissed there.
[/b]

A Sikh Prime minister,a Muslim President, a Congress party chief who is a Catholic and an Army Chief who again happens to be a Sikh&#33;. If this ain&#39;t secularism,what is? Something like this will never happen in Pakistan in a million years.

<!--QuoteBegin-Jana@Mar 21 2006, 08:39 PM
the breakup has nothing 2 do with the religion, it was follies of our politicians which were exploited by India and funded the breakup and attacked us.
[/quote]
Who called for a partition? Muslim League&#33; It has got everything to do with religion.

 

[Sid]

Originally posted by Hammer@Mar 21 2006, 10:46 AM
A Sikh Prime minister,a Muslim President, a Congress party chief who is a Catholic and an Army Chief who again happens to be a Sikh&#33;. If this ain&#39;t secularism,what is? Something like this will never happen in Pakistan in a million years.  


Who called for a partition? Muslim League&#33; It has got everything to do with religion.

[post=7489]Quoted post[/post]​

I agree with the first part of your statement. It is quite an achievement to have all faiths represented in higher offices of the establishment. Bravo&#33;

The seond part, not so well informed my friend. It was CONGRESS that FORCED Muslim League to accept partition as the next best alternatives after it refused &#39;parity&#39; in the legislature and refused to safeguard the fears of the Muslim minority. I know what they teach you in your primary, secondary schools and I know what they teach in our schools. The one word to describe what those books say is: Pathetic. Indians have their &#39;legends&#39; about partition and Pakistanis have their&#39;s so I ventured on a quest to find the truth and it turns out that Jinnah was RIGHT&#33; Even though Mountbatten and Gandhi tried to lure him out of his position by even offering him the first prime-ministership of India, he refused, rightly so.

It was NOT Jinnah who was responsible for the partition of India as your local history books would have you believe or for that matter, the pathetic movie made on Gandhis live would have you believe. Read some books by &#39;acknowledged&#39; authors and you will find that reality is far from the legend you have grown up with.

Read up
"Jinnah of Pakistan" by Stanley Wolpert (excellent book on everything you need to know about Jinnah)
"Partition of India: Legend and Reality" by H. M. Seervai who was Advocate General of Maharashtra, India from 1957 to 1974 and one of the most respected lawyers in India and beyond (the 1994 Edition is the most recent).
"The Sole Spokesman, Jinnah, the Muslim League and the Demand for Pakistan" by Dr. Ayesha Jalal

I will personally use Mr. Seervai&#39;s book to quote his findings based on REAL confidential documents de-classified by the British government to show you that ONE Indian atleast FOUND the truth about partition&#33;

 

[Hammer]

Originally posted by Sid+Mar 22 2006, 12:45 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sid &#064; Mar 22 2006, 12:45 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'>I agree with the first part of your statement. It is quite an achievement to have all faiths represented in higher offices of the establishment. Bravo&#33;
[/b]

Thank you&#33;.

<!--QuoteBegin-Sid@Mar 22 2006, 12:45 AM
It was NOT Jinnah who was responsible for the partition of India as your local history books would have you believe or for that matter, the pathetic movie made on Gandhis live would have you believe. Read some books by &#39;acknowledged&#39; authors and you will find that reality is far from the legend you have grown up with.

I will personally use Mr. Seervai&#39;s book to quote his findings based on REAL confidential documents de-classified by the British government to show you that ONE Indian atleast FOUND the truth about partition&#33;

[post=7497]Quoted post[/post]​

[/quote]
All this is vague. Please do quote Mr.Seervai to support your claims.I am sure it will be interesting. And Man, I &#39;ve been a history buff all my life.I &#39;ve not read one word blaming Jinnah for the Partition of India. All it says is that the Lahore declaration of Muslim League demanded a separate state for the Muslims. And thats why i refute Jana&#39;s claims that partition was not based on religious lines. It was full and full based on religion and nothing else.

 

[sword9]

Originally posted by Jana+Mar 21 2006, 08:39 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jana &#064; Mar 21 2006, 08:39 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>Well secularism yeh i wish if it was followed the way its promissed there.[/b]

There maybe flays but the system works here much better than in any other part of the world.
<!--QuoteBegin-Jana@Mar 21 2006, 08:39 PM
the breakup has nothing 2 do with the religion, it was follies of our politicians which were exploited by India and funded the breakup and attacked us.
And now the bengalis are threatened by the same force
[/quote]
You are looking at it the otherway around. The formation of (East) Pakistan was based on religion, but religion could not bind the two wings together. Hence, SATAN&#39;s statement that some Indian states be given to Pakistan based on the religion is absurd. There are other factors that bind a nation - nationalism being a primary factor.

It may be quite a surprise to you that Indian muslims in general do not want to be part of Pakistan.

 

[Sid]

Originally posted by sword9@Mar 21 2006, 11:15 PM
It may be quite a surprise to you that Indian muslims in general do not want to be part of Pakistan.

Thats not surprising at all. Almost every Christian and Hindu that I&#39;ve met in Pakistan, don&#39;t want to be a part of India and consider themselves as much Pakistani as anyone else.


P.S. Hammer, a response to your post has been made in a NEW thread in the History Forums area under the title "Partition Reality". Please continue there. Thnx

 

[Bull]

Originally posted by Jana@Mar 21 2006, 07:09 PM
Well secularism yeh i wish if it was followed the way its promissed there.
the breakup has nothing 2 do with the religion, it was follies of our politicians which were exploited by India and funded the breakup and attacked us.
And now the bengalis are threatened by the same force

[post=7488]Quoted post[/post]​

Jana dear, dont worry its thousand times better in India than in pakistan, we have here all sorts of people, than in pkaistan.And still we hear abt more violonce and killing from the muslim state than the secular state of India.

How many muslims gets killed in pakistan and India,if you take out a statistics u will come to know.

 

[Bull]

Originally posted by SATAN+Mar 20 2006, 11:56 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SATAN &#064; Mar 20 2006, 11:56 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'> However i would think that the only way indias poor down trodden people can live their way of life and culture...is to divide india into 2 parts, the states closer to Pakistan can form a seperate Moslem country and the hindus can go practice their ways in a pure hindu state . So why not let indias 150 millions moslems have Gujrat,Rajastan,Punjab,Kashmir form a seperate Unit ?  [/b]

We already gave our western part which the willing moslems took and created Pakistan.India was created into two one for hindus and one for muslims ,muslims crated the land for muslims while Hindus decided to go for a secular state.So this land to the west of rajastan is ours.If u feel so symphatic to the muslims then why dont u call them across to pakistan.

AND ALSO WHATS THE RELATIONSHIP WITH DOWN TRODDEN PEOPLE CULTURES AND CREATING A SEPERATE LAND FOR MUSLIMS.

<!--QuoteBegin-SATAN@Mar 20 2006, 11:56 AM
This way theres no pretending to be a "democracy" and india can fullfill its age old dream of being a purist hindu state. That way theres Total and complete peace on the subcontinent.  :love:

[post=7388]Quoted post[/post]​

[/quote]

PRETENDING TO BE A DEMOCRACY,U SAY THAT TO BUSH WHOSE ## UR LEADERS ARE ##.

 

[sword9]

Originally posted by Sid@Mar 22 2006, 10:15 AM
Thats not surprising at all. Almost every Christian and Hindu that I&#39;ve met in Pakistan, don&#39;t want to be a part of India and consider themselves as much Pakistani as anyone else.

That holds true for those living in either nation. And that proves that SATAN&#39;s statement that Indian states of Gujrat,Rajastan,Punjab,Kashmir be formed into a seperate Unit for the 150 million India moslems, to be quite illogical.

I have some relatives from my mother&#39;s side who life in Karachi, and her cousin is a retired PAF officer. He served Pakistan well, and we met him for the first time in 1981-82 after he had retired during a family wedding.

My post regarding solving the Indo-PAk dispute (over Kashmir) by forming a federation is based on the proposals that the India and Pakistani govts were discussing before in 1963-64. But after Nehru&#39;s death the proposal got shelved.

This seems to be the only way in which either country walks away without a defeat and J&K gets united.

 

[RAPTOR]

Speaking of india&#39;s role in spreading terrorism in Nepal and neighbouring countries, i found an interesting collection of websites and news blogs on this subject on the net. Heres an article........

Avash Sharma said:

June 9th, 2005 at 8:26 am
Stop India from Exporting Terrorism to Nepal

India has been creating economical as well as political problems for Nepal for the last 58 years it has become Independent from the British. Nepal wanted to become trade free zone just like Singapore, it pressurized Nepal to abandon the idea. It wanted to turn to market economy 20 years ago but India forced it to have high custom tariff. India is building dams in the border area to flood Lumbini the birth place of Lord Budha so no tourist will visit this submerge area.

Nepal has to endure Indian arm twisting because it is landlocked so it has to use Indian port for sea cargo. It took ten years to convince India to allow Nepal to link India port with railway and another three years for the train to star service after completion of the railway link. Even after 15 years the railway link in not functioning properly. India has denied Nepal right of transits numerous times and dictating its terms on Nepal economy, as a result it is now one of the poorest country in the world. Now Indian foreign minister is threatening Nepal that it has leverage against Nepal which is noting but Nepal geographical compulsion to ship cargo through India.

India has been exporting terrorism to its neighbouring countries to keeps these countries in line to the Indian wishes. Terrorism as been the inbuilt nature of Indian politics. According to very credible numbers published by human-rights groups and the Punjab judiciary, the government of India has murdered more than 250,000 Sikhs since 1984, in excess of 200,000 Christians in Nagaland since 1947, almost 75,000 Kashmiri Muslims since 1988, and tens of thousands of Assamese, Tamils, Manipuris, Dalits, and others. In 1994, the US State Department reported that the Indian government paid out over 41,000 cash bounties to police officers for killing members of the Sikh minority.

An Indian Prime Minister was killed in office resulting from hobnobbing with terrorist. A former Prime Minister Mr. Rajib Ghandi who supported and armed one of the deadliest terrorist LITTE against Sri Lanka and as result was killed by them. In 1985 it armed and trained Ramraja P. Singh in India to conduct various terrorism activities in Nepal the result was several innocent civilian were killed.

After fourteen years of corruption and misrule by corrupt politicians King of Nepal has taken a popular step and assumed direct rule. The result has been positive. Whith the polular support of the general public peace in returing to the country. Kathmandu has seen four months without bombing or innocent people being killed. It this the first time in decade three months have gone without any kind of forced strikes in Kathmandu and other towns of the country. Gradually situation in becoming normal in the country side.

Normal Nepal has chance of being out of grip of India. So now India in supporting terrorist Nepal Communist Party (Maoist) to fight against the Nepal Army. It is repeating the same story it did with Sri Lanka. Recently several terrorist who have red corner notice from the Interpol have been reported holding meetings with Indian Intelligence Agency and Politicians. India is planning to arm and train terrorist to teach Nepal a lesson.


Link

 

[sword9]

Originally posted by SATAN@Mar 28 2006, 11:00 AM
Speaking of india&#39;s role in spreading terrorism in Nepal and neighbouring countries, i found an interesting collection of websites and news blogs on this subject on the net. Heres an article........

The veracity of your posts are suspect if you don&#39;t post links. We would link to know if the source of your article is credible. So don&#39;t pick up your arguments from forum posters who post the same article is each and every forum they visit. Looks more like a biased and anti-Indian internet campaign.

We don&#39;t deny that India has not been high handed at times and has tried to browbeat Nepal, but at the same time Nepal has tried to play the China card with us. While in the current Nepali situation it is Pakistan and China who are responsible for the mess and not India.

 

[RAPTOR]

"We don&#39;t deny that India has not been high handed at times and has tried to browbeat Nepal, but at the same time Nepal has tried to play the China card with us. While in the current Nepali situation it is Pakistan and China who are responsible for the mess and not India."




I truly understand your Fustrations.

 

[sword9]

What makes you think U am frsutrated? You are the one who hase not provided a link. You are the the one unable to prove the credentials of your post.