Pakistan to install air defence system at Pak-Afghan border

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Good job general

u earned my respect

Please auction off any remaining assets by US and give the funds towards a good cause - and time to confiscate the oil in truck , for unpaid fines and damage to road and donate all the proceeds from sales to Soldier benefits fund

 

[karan.1970]

Instead of shooting down the drones, we should look into arming some "non state elements" with cold war era MANPAD. And then blame it on Talibans...so PA can come out hands clean!

I believe Pakistan govt is way ahead of you in thinking on those lines

 

[Pakistani Dragon]

Salaam,

Pakistan did obliterate the scary Soviet Empire into 14 republics. And Amreeka ain't scary as the Soviet Empire.

Those who doubt Pakistani power, should refrain from doubting.

Salaam.

 

[T-Rex]

Whats yours ?

Certainly not an israeli showing the indian flags.

 

[venu309]

I think Pakistan has played the right move & caught NATO/US's bluff. An escalation of the war into Pakistan could have dire consequences for the NATO & US Forces in Afghanistan, they'd lose all they have gained in Afghanistan, & could also endanger the Islamists in Pakistan taking over: everything that the US doesn't want & can't afford. The dire economic conditions in the US dictate the same fact. Plus, as JayAtl mentioned, elections are coming up, & the Obama regime has to be seen to be coming towards an end-game in the AfPak region, not open a new front multiple times bigger than that of Afghanistan.

Someone in PA seems to be poker player....

 

[krash]

The difference may be in case you try & fail. An unarmed drone cannot retaliate against the attack.

Now your just playing around with us. Please do elaborate on what the retaliatory options are for any of the armed drones that the US has.


ps: The PAF has in fact once downed a predator some years ago. The matter was kept extremely hush hush and was settled with "This was an unfortunate mistake". I did not mention it before since I doubt you'll be able to find any links to it. The official cause was stated to be a 'technical fault'.

 

[Windjammer]

how on earth can Kiyani order to shot down drones ???

If I am not mistaken then Chief PAF Rao said we can shot drones, if government orders.


can anyone explain when and where did the Government ordered Kiyani to pass this verdict ??

just curious !!

Well one doesn't expect the information minister to make the announcement, obviously after conferring with the government, th e Army Chief issued the order...... now even confirmed by NBC.

Pakistan says U.S. drones in its air space will be shot down
By NBC News, msnbc.com staff and news service reports
Updated at 8 p.m. EST
ISLAMABAD -- Pakistan will shoot down any U.S. drone that intrudes its air space per new directives, a senior Pakistani official told NBC News on Saturday.

According to the new Pakistani defense policy, "Any object entering into our air space, including U.S. drones, will be treated as hostile and be shot down," a senior Pakistani military official told NBC News.
The policy change comes just weeks after a deadly NATO attack on Pakistani military checkpoints accidentally killed 24 Pakistani soldiers, prompting Pakistani officials to order all U.S. personnel out of a remote airfield in Pakistan.
Pakistan told the U.S. to vacate Shamsi Air Base by December 11.
A senior military official from Quetta, Pakistan, confirmed to NBC News on Saturday that the evacuation of the base, used for staging classified drone flights directed against militants, “will be completed tomorrow,” according to NBC’s Fakhar ur Rehman.
Pakistan's Frontier Corps security forces took control of the base Saturday evening after most U.S. military personnel left, Xinhua news agency reported. Civil aviation officials also moved in Saturday, Xinhua said.
Pakistani Military Chief Gen Ashfaq Pervez Kayani had issued multiple directives since the Nov. 26 NATO attack, which included orders to shoot down U.S. drones, senior military officials confirmed to NBC News on Saturday.
It was unclear Saturday whether orders to fire upon incoming U.S. drones was part of the initial orders.

The Pakistani airbase had been used by U.S. forces, including the CIA, to stage elements of a clandestine U.S. counter-terrorism operation to attack militants linked to al-Qaida, the Taliban and Pakistan's home-grown Haqqani network, using unmanned drone aircraft armed with missiles.
President Barack Obama stepped up the drone campaign after he took office. U.S. officials say it has produced major successes in decimating the central leadership of al-Qaida and putting associated militant groups on the defensive.
Since 2004, U.S. drones have carried out more than 300 attacks inside Pakistan.
Pakistani authorities started threatening U.S. personnel with eviction from the Shamsi base in the wake of the raid last May in which U.S. commandos killed Osama bin Laden at his hide-out near Islamabad without notifying Pakistani officials in advance.

World News - Pakistan says U.S. drones in its air space will be shot down

 

[Tangent]

...this 'shadow boxing' will go on for some time and media will publish on their front page or give it prime time, and pages of opinions on the forums..
...but after 2 months it will be business as usual.
Unfortunately for PA, it's actions has never been in synchronization with it's words...

 

[Bang Galore]

The situations in Iran and Pakistan have both been different. One needs only logic to see that clearly. Comparing them and then claiming them to be analogous is juvenile.

My point exactly.

If you think that the Iranians are more capable of downing US drones then you are delusional.

Not my point. Not even convinced that it was shot down since it is largely intact.

If you think that the US would restrain itself from attacking Iran before restraining itself in case of Pakistan then you are direly mistaken.

Silly point. The drone over Iran was unarmed, it was purely being used for surveillance. A preparation for an attack that may or may not happen, if you will. Not so in Pakistan, the drones are armed & are already in a position to take out targets & that could include any threat that might show itself.

If you think that the drones cannot be shot down then you, my dear friend, are deliberately and desperately trying to play everything down and are in effect trolling (You can find camera footage from a predator being effectively downed by a Stinger missile launched by a Talib and another by an Iraqi jet. There have been others shot down by light AAA as well. Please be a dear and search for them yourself).

Don't waste your time with sermonising on points that I have not made. I never suggested that drones cannot be shot down, however some drones do have the capacity to strike back & there is plenty of doubt on the will of the Pakistani establishment to actually take on the Americans not withstanding any grandiose statements which are deliberately publicised. There was nothing stopping the Pakistani establishment from quietly spreading the word internally & informing the Americans, again discreetly about their intentions. Seems more of a case of whipping up emotions than an actual military deterrent. Plenty of reason given past history that Pakistan won't go beyond talking, little to the contrary.

The nature of the drone captured by the Iranis (RQ-170) is indeed different than the ones flying over Pakistan (Predator and/or Reaper) in the sense that the RQ-170 is a lot more sensitive. Its a program still denied by the Americans. The RQ-170 employs technology far superior and sensitive than anything on the Predator or the Reaper. The mere notion that "the nature of the drones flying over Pakistan would warrant a response by the Americans" is, again, ill conceived.

True about the nature of the drone on Iran, also true that if Pakistan actually shot down a drone, the response from the Americans such an event might be similar to that in Iran, still was pointing out that in the event of a failed attack or an ongoing attack, it would be foolish to assume that the Americans are going to stick around & await being shot down rather than taking all necessary evasive measures including dealing with a particular, localised threat.

Now for the bold part. Where the Americans have threatened the Iranians they have still not so much as squeaked against Pakistan, at least not officially.

Not necessary, they are doing what they need to & why use threats if you can get your way by pretending to be great allies.

Where they openly accuse Pakistan of being in cahoots with the Taliban through every unofficial channel there President has kept on repeating "Pakistan is our foremost ally in the WoT" like a broken 12-inch vinyl. Furthermore your reference to the recent attack on the PA check post also does not hold ground. Its easier to punch a friend and claim an honest mistake than to hit an enemy. The enemy will not cater any "mistakes". Show me one statement where the Yanks have accepted any malicious intent behind the attack. "Its all an unfortunate mistake" isnt it?

True. Agree.

Now what these orders do is change the playing the field and the situation itself. Where before the Pakistani authorities including the military claimed inability or complacency now they are openly proposing opposition followed by action (if you cant see the seriousness in that then no one can help you). This puts us in the same set as the Iranians, only with some stronger muscle to back up our position. One thing the Americans can no longer claim is an unfortunate mistake or collaboration by the Pakistani authorities. So unless the Americans desire another confrontation, against someone a lot more powerful than anyone they have faced openly for ages, they would be well advised not to misbehave from now onwards. Keep in mind that their forces are already standing a foot away from the gallows in Afghanistan and their main life source is in our hands.

Now you are no longer arguing on the same plane of thought that you & I both might have been resident of before. This part of the argument is (to non-Pakistani mind) simply silly & to use your favourite word; juvenile! Not going to address this because it is simply a matter of perception & of some great leaps of both faith & fantasy. We will have to agree to disagree with your interpretation on this part.

In conclusion, unless the Americans are complete imbeciles this "Talking about giving orders to do this or that should definitely impress them". It would be wise for them to not disregard it as just a fantasy. As for the rest, their opinions and claims hardly matter.

Well, I can hardly speak for the Americans but if I were to put myself in their shoes, I don't think that it is feasible to back down in the face of a threat of hostile action. Doing so would set a bad precedent & one that would then sought to be repeated by others wherever they be. You would be wise to factor that thinking in any proposition, a fantasy or otherwise.

 

[JayAtl]

They can still buy it from China.

is that your expert opinion ... let me burst ya bubble.. answer is NO

 

[Al Bhatti]

December 10, 2011

Islamabad, Pakistan (CNN) -- Pakistan, in a bid to bolster its border with Afghanistan, has installed anti-aircraft guns and radars to monitor air activity, a senior Pakistani military official told CNN.

"We had to do it after being deceived by our so-called friends," said the official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity.

The move comes in response to a NATO airstrike last month that killed 24 Pakistani soldiers.

The official declined to say how many anti-aircraft guns and radars were installed along the country's western border.

On Friday, the Pakistani government released a statement that said Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani had been briefed by army chief of staff Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani on national security issues.

"The Army Chief apprised the Prime Minister of the steps taken on the western borders to revamp the defense capabilities aimed at effectively countering the recurrence of the incursion into the Pakistan territory," it read.

"The Prime Minister said that the government and the people of Pakistan were ready to provide the Armed Forces all the necessary resources to bolster its defense and professional capabilities," the statement said.

The NATO airstrike strained relations between Islamabad and Washington.

The United States has insisted that the attack was not deliberate and expressed regret over the deaths of the soldiers.

But in the aftermath of the attack, the Pakistani government has shut down NATO supply routes through Pakistan, boycotted a conference on the future of Afghanistan and also asked the United States to vacate an air base on its territory.

The attack prompted widespread outrage in Pakistan; the military is conducting an investigation.

Pakistan boosts border security after airstrike - CNN.com

------

"The Army Chief apprised the Prime Minister of the steps taken on the western borders to revamp the defense capabilities aimed at effectively countering the recurrence of the incursion into the Pakistan territory," it read.



So Kayani gave a lecture to that silly donald duck (sorry i mean Prime Minister), after the meeeting was over he surely forgot what he was apprised about, "not to his knowledge".

 

[JayAtl]

I think Pakistan has played the right move & caught NATO/US's bluff. An escalation of the war into Pakistan could have dire consequences for the NATO & US Forces in Afghanistan, they'd lose all they have gained in Afghanistan, & could also endanger the Islamists in Pakistan taking over: everything that the US doesn't want & can't afford. The dire economic conditions in the US dictate the same fact. Plus, as JayAtl mentioned, elections are coming up, & the Obama regime has to be seen to be coming towards an end-game in the AfPak region, not open a new front multiple times bigger than that of Afghanistan.

I can almost see the glee in your heart - Now that you cited my brillant post ( mention about how this binds the US) ...I'll tell you why this is a bad move for pakistan. Purely from a foreign policy perspective void of any bias ...

1. Pakistan risks this escalating much more because slowly Pakistan has taken away it's leverage . It stopped NATO supplies, it will stop drone attacks and I'm sure as you know CIA is severely restricted now .

2. If the US aid stops, yeah yeah we know you don't care and want to live on love and fresh air, but if it stops- that would spell a spiraling of your economy downward . Right now American dollars, regardless of how many lives you lost, still sustains the military effort, which regardless of US, still needs to clear a cluster you know what of a mess.

3. This makes afghan border triple dangerous, because if one single rogue army man decides he is going to fire at a NATO aircraft, thinking the guy might have gone over the border( remember, actual line is murky in that area) and hits a NATO aircraft. There will be a sh1t storm of retaliation.

4. Because of these enhanced , heightened threats , Pakistan will need to pull more troops from its eastern borders. The onus of keeping terrorists out of afghan becomes much more important and critical to avoid the full onslaught of the americans...

 

[krash]

Good for pakistan's own sake.
But dont just talk. do something, If above warning is true then in one week we should see 3-4 drones shot to the ground. As everybody knows drones still fly over pakistan everyday.

Coming days are really interesting for pak. If they downed few drones then supply of spare parts get halted for sure for US made weapon systems. Currently Pak is in some kInd of jeopardy. Let's wht time unfold for all of us

ya ya ya same thing has been said many times before, ill wait to see Pakistan actually shoot down a drone first.

I think it is good decision(if only it were to be implemented ASAP) at least from the Indian perspective... Pakistan making an enemy of the worlds only superpower...it will dynamically tilt the scales in Indian favor.

What most of the people here have failed to realize is that the statements being issued and the actions being taken are not so as to shoot down a couple of birds or to start off hostilities. In fact the intentions behind all of this is so as not to have to do exactly that. Neither the Americans nor the Pakistanis are stupid. Neither of them want open hostility between them. They both work on the bases of need for the other. What these statements and actions are saying is 'behave' not 'bring it on'. So it would be foolish to expect any drones being downed any time soon, unless the situation and the relations really take a nose dive. What will happen is that the US will refrain from such activities, at least till the relations normalize. That is something quite apparent considering that there haven't been any drone strikes since the 27th of November.

If U.S. dare to use missiles to attack Pakistan, the relationship will be irreversible. That will really push Pakistan to the other side of U.S.

If that happens, I think those who make decisions in U.S. side are really beyond stupid.

Golden words. This is the most important premise that everyone is seemingly ignoring (btw it works just as well for the Pakistani side too). And no the Americans are not that stupid hence the whole dance going on here.

 

[kawaraj]

Enjoy the Nation till it lasts.

Are you on some kind of high?

We will shoot down any invasion, take that word, if this administration want to last.

 

[JayAtl]

Are you on some kind of high?

We will shoot down any invasion, take that word, if this administration want to last.

this is not a kite flying competition, before the US enters your space it will destroy every radar, major missile threat and military airport/station from hundred miles away, hell from the indian ocean if need be. you will cease to have 80 or 90% of your communications in the first 48 hrs ...