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Pakistan to be ruined if a war with India happens

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In any war with Pak, India's superiority will prevail

New Delhi: The Pakistan government has failed to respond satisfactorily to India's demands to convincingly end terrorism emanating from its soil and to hand over terrorist leaders and fugitives from Indian justice.

Though both governments have toned down the political rhetoric and war clouds are no longer hovering on the horizon, the palpable anger of the people after the terror attacks on Mumbai has not been assuaged and a future conflict with Pakistan remains a possibility.

Most analysts and commentators know that war is not a good option - it will add to the complexity of the challenge of cross-border terrorism without in any way helping to resolve it.

Yet, there is widespread agreement that limited military measures and covert intelligence operations are necessary to raise the cost for the Pakistan Army and Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) to wage a proxy war against India through terrorism.

Unless some punishment is inflicted on the real perpetrators, they will not be persuaded to terminate their low risk-high payoff strategy to destabilise and weaken India by "bleeding it through a thousand cuts".

The military measures that are actually adopted have to be carefully calibrated to ensure that escalation can be controlled short of all-out war.

These include precision strikes by artillery, rocket and missile forces and air-to-ground strikes by fighter aircraft and attack helicopters against purely military targets in Pakistan-administered Kashmir so as to inflict punishment on the Pakistan Army, ISI and the leadership of the terrorist organisations acting against India.

Special Forces raids will also be viable under certain circumstances. In case conventional conflict does break out, the endeavour should be to limit the fighting to the Line of Control in Kashmir so as to avoid risking escalation to nuclear levels.

There is, of course, some risk of conventional conflict spilling over from Kashmir to the plains.

Though the Indian Army and Air Force still enjoy an edge over their Pakistani counterparts despite the slow pace of modernisation and numerous operational deficiencies, Pakistan may choose to escalate the conflict for political reasons.

The Pakistani armed forces have received considerable aid from the United States to fight the so-called global war on terror but are in no shape to successfully fight a war with India because of their large-scale commitment in the NWFP, FATA and Swat Valley and because of the recent battering that they have received at the hands of militant groups like the Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP).

If conventional conflict does spill over to the plains, India's army and air force will plan to take the fight into enemy territory through their new concept of joint air-land offensive operations.

This has been tested in a series of annual exercises that have included Poorna Vijay (2001), Vijay Chakra, Divya Astra, Vajra Shakti (May 2005), Desert Strike (November 2005), Sanghe Shakti (May 2006) and Dakshin Shakti-Brazen Chariots (March 2008).

All of these exercises were aimed at concentrating and coordinating the firepower of all available assets and fine-tuning army-air force joint operations in a strategic setting premised on conventional operations in a nuclear environment.

The doctrine for offensive operations prior to Operation Parakram (2001-02) was to employ the massive combat potential of India's Strike Corps to advance deep into Pakistani territory to capture strategic objectives and to bring to battle and destroy Pakistan's Army Reserve (North) and Army Reserve (South), so as to substantially degrade its war machinery.

This concept was evolved in 1981-82 and tested in Exercise Digvijay when General Krishna Rao was army chief.

It was further refined during the famous Exercise Brass Tacks IV in 1987 by General K Sundarji as chief of the army staff and was accepted as the army's doctrine for offensive operations in the plains.

While the option to strike deep and call Pakistan's nuclear bluff remains on the table, a new concept of offensive operations now under consideration is a combination of "cold start" and integrated battle groups (IBGs).

During Operation Parakram the Strike Corps had taken too long to move to their concentration areas. The aim of Cold Start is to move rapidly from the cantonments directly to battle positions to launch a number of potent strikes all across the western border without prior warning to give India strategic advantage.

IBGs based on combinations of infantry divisions and armoured brigades are offensive battle groups capable of penetrating across the border over a wide front. Supported by massive firepower, IBGs can launch multi-pronged offensive operations into Pakistan without presenting large targets for nuclear strikes.

India's strike formations are now better capable of launching offensive operations quickly.

Within 72 to 96 hours of the issue of the order for full-scale mobilisation, a large number of IBGs based on strike divisions may be expected to launch offensive operations even as the defensive divisions are still completing their deployments on the border.

Such simultaneity of operations will unhinge the adversary, break his cohesion and paralyse him into making mistakes from which he will not be able to recover.

Each strike division battle group will be specifically structured to achieve designated objectives in the terrain in which it is expected to be launched and yet be flexible enough for two or more of them to be grouped for concentrated operations under a corps HQ.

This will enable them to bring to bear the combined weight of their combat power on a common military objective deep inside Pakistani territory.

The "pivot" or holding Corps has been provided significant offensive capability that is now integral to them. The then army chief, General JJ Singh, had stated that "they have been assigned roles, which are offensive as well as defensive..."

Should the Pakistan army find itself unable to stop the Indian juggernaut, it may consider launching nuclear strikes against India's mechanised forces operating inside its territory.

However, Pakistan has a lot to lose by initiating nuclear strikes. Its military leaders are well aware that while India will sustain considerable damage in a Pakistani first strike, India's massive retaliatory strike will completely destroy major Pakistani cities, industry and combat forces and Pakistan will cease to exist as a nation state.

Under the circumstances, Pakistan's "red lines" are not as close to the border as the Pakistan army has been trying to convince Indian military planners to believe.

Obviously, the red lines vary according to the terrain. For example, in the developed state of west Punjab, Pakistan's nuclear threshold will be much lower than in the Cholistan or Thar deserts, which are relatively less developed and, consequently, more thinly populated.

The nuclear tipping point in a conventional conflict is a matter of fine military judgement. A rational Pakistani approach would be to opt for a graduated response in case push comes to shove.

Lt Gen Sardar FS Lodhi (Retd) has written about a demonstration warning shot followed by a low-yield nuclear explosion over Indian forces advancing inside Pakistani territory.

If that fails to stop Indian offensive operations, Pakistan may choose to target a small border town in India. However, it will risk total annihilation.

In the end, India's conventional superiority will prevail and a future conflict in the plains may be expected to end on terms favourable to India.

Hence, while war is not a rational option, there is no need to fear war and act timidly. India must act in its national interest and not continue to suffer the adverse consequences of Pakistan's interminable proxy war.

In any war with Pak, India's superiority will prevail

is it just me or anyone else think indians are being over confident
 
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so u think u r doing perfectly right by killing your muslim brothers in FATA.
Kindly do not provoke further by inserting religious comments and stick to topic.


You have no clue whats happening in FATA...you people live far away from FATA I thought or maybe you know exactly whats going on knowing you have 8 consulates in the eastern border of Afghanistan.
Our Pakistani troops are well aware why Indians are in Afghanistan and what kind of things they are doing.
We know whose the real enemy, and we will take revenge on you all for what you did and what are you are doing to us.
I could give you 100 example why India is the one that is preventing peace in teh region but you people will just continue to close your eyes and ears and claim you are perfect.
 
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In any war with Pak, India's superiority will prevail

If they actually believe that BS why dont they shut their mouth and just try to attack. They talk big but in reality they are too afraid.
 
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You have no clue whats happening in FATA...you people live far away from FATA I thought or maybe you know exactly whats going on knowing you have 8 consulates in the eastern border of Afghanistan.
Our Pakistani troops are well aware why Indians are in Afghanistan and what kind of things they are doing.
We know whose the real enemy, and we will take revenge on you all for what you did and what are you are doing to us.
I could give you 100 example why India is the one that is preventing peace in teh region but you people will just continue to close your eyes and ears and claim you are perfect.
Not as far as USA!!!! We Live in India which is technically closer to FATA. lol rofl, and I didnt know u where the pointman for the Pakistani army in FATA
 
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If we go down we're going to take Indians down with us.
Pakistan recently tested a nuclear missle capable of attacking any area in India so dont talk **** indians.

Please understand that usage of Nukes are IMPOSSIBLE by Pakistan unless Pakistan doesn't mind the international community tearing it to pieces and treating it like Iraq.

All the talk of using nukes are nothing but talk to seed psychological fear in the minds of Indians.

Also impossible is the thought of taking down India after losing a war, there is no example in the entire history of the world of a loser taking the winner down (I sincerely do not wish a war).
 
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Please understand that usage of Nukes are IMPOSSIBLE by Pakistan unless Pakistan doesn't mind the international community tearing it to pieces and treating it like Iraq.

All the talk of using nukes are nothing but talk to seed psychological fear in the minds of Indians.

Also impossible is the thought of taking down India after losing a war, there is no example in the entire history of the world of a loser taking the winner down (I sincerely do not wish a war).
So you're saying in order to avoid getting attacked by the international community we should allow India to attack us?

India will be nothing more than a wasteland, a biohazard, a hell on Earth after our strike is completed. Of course all of this is in the event that India imposes war upon us. The gloves comes off then.
 
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Over the past 60 years of thaw between India and Pakistan, it has always been Pakistan who was belligerent…All its misadventures (including 1947, 1965, 1971 and Kargil) have backfired.

How is it possible, no matter what principle you use, to suggest that Pakistan ‘started’ the 65 as well as 71 wars? The Indians say that 65 was our fault because of Gibraltar which was infiltration of irregulars into a Indian occupied Disputed Territory whereas the Indians did the same thing with trainloads of Bengali rebels into sovereign international Pakistani territory? At BEST we started 1, while the other was completely India’s instigation and gain.

China and USA have always kept the supply lines running.

The US imposed a sanction on both India and Pakistan at the start of the war the result of which was that we were low on artillery and aircraft ammunition the whole time. This almost cost us the war and was the reason we turned to China. Same thing happened in 71, furthermore for obvious reasons the US and China were hesitant to help us out militarily in East Pakistan. So the supply lines during wars were anything BUT running.

It has only one Strike Corps, Mangla Corps based out of *** that is also expected to be put in a defensive role.

WTF is the matter with this retarded editor? Pakistan has 2 Strike Corps, the second being based in Multan, Punjab.

While Pakistan officially claims that it has over 20,000 missiles,

Pakistan has “officially” claimed no such bloody thing. Nor has it been claimed un-officially or anything because the figure is almost as retarded as the 50,000 targets one provided by the Indians. A claim of this nature would be all over the net, can any Indian provide me with any proof or links that Pakistani officials have officially or unofficially stated these figures?

Nuclear stockpile of Pakistan is totally in US control. It will be difficult to exercise the nuclear option without the consent of USA, which is very unlikely.

In all, if a full-scale war breaks, Pakistan is doomed.

I beg you, please try these 2 theories out. Let’s see where it gets you.

I’m not joking, I’m bloody serious, can someone please post this ‘article’ in the jokes section? This belongs there. Titled “Indian Modesty and Lack of Confidence” backed by authentic and irrefutable data.
 
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So you're saying in order to avoid getting attacked by the international community we should allow India to attack us?

India will be nothing more than a wasteland, a biohazard, a hell on Earth after our strike is completed. Of course all of this is in the event that India imposes war upon us. The gloves comes off then.

I never said that India should attack Pakistan.

It is in Pakistan's interest to tame their charity organisation just to think about doing real charity in Pakistan. Hope you would have known about a charity organisation that after taking over Swat has now issued an ultimatum that there will no education for girls in that region after Jan 15. Now you military has not said a word about it in public. Do you think this ostrich like behaviour will help your country.

Now when these charity organisations take interest it India, it is in legitimate right of India to ask Pakistan to act on these organizations, bcoz India knows the consequences of appeasing these organizations.
 
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Pakistan to be ruined if a war with India happens
Submitted by editor on Tue, 12/23/2008 - 19:15

Everything is not so rosy in Pakistan. Over the past 60 years of thaw between India and Pakistan, it has always been Pakistan who was belligerent. All its misadventures (including 1947, 1965, 1971 and Kargil) have backfired. It has been continuing to wage war against India through drugs, illegal currency, insurgency and terrorism. However, the entire Pakistani Military and Government seems to be badly shaken this time. In the cover of a tough posture, all is not so well with Pakistan.

India has always been alone in the war against Pakistan with China and USA strongly supporting it, although not directly. In 1971 war, USA was very close to interfering and had sent its infamous 7th fleet to participate. China and USA have always kept the supply lines running.

However, now India is a lot more important to both China and USA. Notwithstanding previous relationship with Pakistan, it is a source of continuous economic strength to both countries.

Apart from economic factors, Pakistan remains exposed to the whole world with the role that it is playing in global terrorism. Jihadi factories have produced terrorists who have waged war against not just India but also USA, China, UK, Spain, etc. The claims of ‘we don’t know anything’ have not gone favourably with anyone. USA is striking at will in NWFP and US agents are all over Pakistan.

Pakistani Military is also in no condition to fight. It is heavily deployed in the Afghan border. Majority of Pakistani Army have soldiers that are of Pathan and Baluch origin. They are strongly against Pakistani Army’s operations in Balochistan and Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA). Morale of the fighting forces is extremely weak. In Pakistani Army, XI Corps and XII Corps comprise mostly of Baluchs and Pathans, and are expected to break quickly.

Entire operations of Army are now highly corrupted. There are many businesses controlled by the Army. War is least of the focus.

Modern wars are fought on ‘oil’. Pakistan has not learnt from Kargil debacle, where it had fuel only for a week if a full-scale war broke out. India has built a stockpile of oil and is located in operational areas.

Entire focus of Pakistani Army was to train insurgents. This can help a little in actual war. Al-Khalid Tank or MBT 2000 that is jointly developed by China and Pakistan has not been induced fully. Type 88 tank, that is the mainstay, is over 30 years old in technology. It lacks the agility and firepower of T-90 or Arjun tanks of India. M113 and M109 armoured carriers are based on a 50 year old model.

Main Pakistani cities such as Lahore, Islamabad, etc. are well within the striking distance of Indian forces. Once Indian Army is deployed, Pakistani Army will be more focused on defending. It has only one Strike Corps, Mangla Corps based out of *** that is also expected to be put in a defensive role.

Pakistani missiles that have been demonstrated in media are imported from North Korea as an exchange to nuclear technology. The source for missiles has dried-up. China has been reluctant to share its missiles. While Pakistan officially claims that it has over 20,000 missiles, the real number is less than 1/10th.

Nuclear stockpile of Pakistan is totally in US control. It will be difficult to exercise the nuclear option without the consent of USA, which is very unlikely.

Pakistan Air Force has no answer to advanced Indian fighters such as Sukhoi-30 MKI and Mirage 2000 that are built with modern avionics and assault systems. The battle for air supremacy will be one way.

Pakistani Navy has many old ships that were purchased through a non-transparent mechanism and what is deployed is, at times, complete junk. Pakistan has claimed to induct few indigenously build submarines with French assistance. It also does not have an aircraft carrier.

In all, if a full-scale war breaks, Pakistan is doomed.

:tsk: ohhh finaly the article is over does anybody has an aspirin ?
 
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I never said that India should attack Pakistan.

It is in Pakistan's interest to tame their charity organisation just to think about doing real charity in Pakistan. Hope you would have known about a charity organisation that after taking over Swat has now issued an ultimatum that there will no education for girls in that region after Jan 15. Now you military has not said a word about it in public. Do you think this ostrich like behaviour will help your country.

Now when these charity organisations take interest it India, it is in legitimate right of India to ask Pakistan to act on these organizations, bcoz India knows the consequences of appeasing these organizations.
Look we've already told you, we need proof to take action against them. You have no proof, we're trying to find some proof... If we find any then definitely they'd be shut down.
 
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