Pakistan soldiers killed by friendly fire in ambush !

[air marshal]

 

[nescafe]

1. as far as i know the govt is paying ransom money crores of rupees from public money for freeing many people including journalists (just come and ask the Peshawar media how a media person was freed after billions were paid)

[CJCSC 's son in law was a civilian. he was not press, not an alim , not a maulvi. it was a safarshi act (most likely)]

2. When was the last time you were told about each and every court martial. that has nothing to be disclosed. they broke the rules of the institution and were dealt accordingly.

[we were told when the PAF court marshalled 116 men for musharraf assassination plot. 6 were given death penalty]
3. GHQ kidnappers ??? and when did GHQ started kidnapping ?

[lashkare jhangvi leader Abdul Rauf Azhar and brother of prominent maulana masood azhar was called to negotiate with kiddnappers who abducted atleast 42 persons inside GHQ. he was flown in from bahawalpur from a special plane.]

4. NLC is in the open and probe has already been started

[it has started. but they will never go through. the money was drowned in stock market. they will never courtmarshall a general ]

5. neo liberals like you so far had been calling those two persons as thieves so what happened now and howcome you started believing in ISI tail ?

[well, if they were not ISI , then who were they. you want to let me know those were mobile snatchers. come on please...i beg for common sense here. if they were thieves then what is the blood money for. the self defence was justified. general ali kuli's son shot dead a mobile snatcher in karachi while sitting in is mercedes!! did he pay blood money?? he never even went for a trial!!]

6. surely they are always not right neither we are saying they are right nor the anti-Army people are always right.

[i have proof of every bit of it. i dont want to start a new thread,because my IP will be traced and it can become an issue. i know , some people have untamed ego.]

ps: i know how to behave, i will take care next time. but dont challenge me for proofs.

 

[nescafe]

i belong from army. the news is sad . May Allah bless the departed souls. they were just like another brick in the wall. another book in the shelf in the greater scheme of this nasty wicked world.

 

[Xeric]

If the army inquires (that is to say put in a formal court of inquiry) when a tyre tube is raptured while driving cross country, then i can only term it sheer stupidity to think that this case will go unnoticed.

Mahinay mai 3-4 inqurian to bhai mujhy karni par jati hain on stupid issues like; lost a bullet during a 15 mile run, coming back 1 hour late from leave, two chickens died due to extreme heat at the langer (soldier's mess), was found sleeping (not exactly sleeping, just not roaming around when on sentry duty) etc. And here Musey tells us that there would be no inquiry in this case. Hats off, sire!

And oh yes, you will never know the outcome of the inquiry, why should you know? Oh because we are paid via your taxes, right? Ahhh..unfortunately the Army dont run a tv channel (as the US do - yes they have a dedicated cable network which is dedicated to military news, people living in the US can contact their cable operators for subscription), nor does we have a printing press at every base/cantonment where upon the base/garrison commander would publish his weekly/monthly new letter/bulletin that would include basic news like; Staff Srgt Red Neck got injured while he was mowing his lawn, or SFC Long Nose saved the day when he sprung into action on seeing a 3-year-old playing amidst the road who was just going to be hit by that car, or the grandson of Major Brainy scored an 'A' in his XYZ exams. Yes, that's the news which when complied is issued in shape of a weekly magazine by the western militaries. How? Well as i have mentioned earlier, there every base, cantonment in our case has it's own public relations/affairs office, almost all of them maintains a website particular to that base and then the US military runs a dedicated tv channel which includes every tom, dick and harry news 24/7. The results of inquiries and investigations are also released via these news letters, web updates, tv reports.

On the other hand we have One ISPR who is responsible for the three services, now if only start counting the Court of Inquiries (C of Is) that i have conducted alone in the previous 6 months, well we might require to raise a dedicated IT section for compilation of my inquiries alone. Now how many officers were there in the Army? 30,000 i guess. Believe me Musey, your pockets just cant pay for it come what may!! And most importantly, nobody reads ISPR now, who would read it when the entire web page is like; Lance Naik Bagar Billa was given 7 days RI as he was scratching his balls while he saluted his passing CO?!

No Shyt!

 

[muse]

Xeric


Thank you for confirming that if there is an investigation, it certainly will not be independent and even if it should be investigated, the only assurance we can have that there has been an investigation, regardless of it's quality, is that we have to take basically the army's word for it because we cannot read any such report of any such investigation.

And of course we all understand the Pakistan army is not "rich" (wink wink, nudge, nudge) to afford IT and TV stations (yet) - but it can publish the report can't it?? It can make it's methodology of investigation and the complete record of it's finding and investigators open to public - what does it have to hide ?

 

[53fd]

Fourteen troops killed in Khyber Agency ambush | Pakistan | DAWN.COM


a blunder on the part of the militants...a blunder they will regret very soon.



RIP to the martyrs who died defending the country. Death to the enemies of Pakistan Nation..




إِنَّا لِلّهِ وَإِنَّـا إِلَيْهِ رَاجِعونَ

The end for the militants is about to come very soon, these are desperate measures from them. They have been reduced to "rubble" in most parts of the country, & this is their last dying breath.

 

[Secret Service]

إِنَّا لِلّهِ وَإِنَّـا إِلَيْهِ رَاجِعونَ

 

[Truth Teller]

 

[Xeric]

Xeric


Thank you for confirming that if there is an investigation, it certainly will not be independent and even if it should be investigated, the only assurance we can have that there has been an investigation, regardless of it's quality, is that we have to take basically the army's word for it because we cannot read any such report of any such investigation.

And of course we all understand the Pakistan army is not "rich" (wink wink, nudge, nudge) to afford IT and TV stations (yet) - but it can publish the report can't it?? It can make it's methodology of investigation and the complete record of it's finding and investigators open to public - what does it have to hide ?

Ahh...

Pehlay inquiry he nahai hoge, tu ab indepedent nahi hoge..What?

It's the military, not WAPDA. Do you think the military is answerable to you only? Let's not be stupid. The Army is MORE responsible to the kins of those who died in this incident. Even before you demand an inquiry or an answer the relatives of those who died would ask question even before you people can open your beaks.

Now why would the military not conduct an inquiry, or for that matter if an inquiry is conducted it would not be biased? Hmmm..is it because:
1) It doesnt want to show that it cannot make such mistakes

2) It wants to favor the culprits (by sparing them)

Well, if it wanted to do the same, it wouldnt even have told you guys that it was due to friendly fire. You just cant imagine how easy it is to hide things during battles.

Oh...i know now you would say that the Army would not hide the incident as it faces the possibilities of infractions from some 'righteous dudes (RDs)' within the Army, right? So now if we agree that there are indeed these RDs within the Army and the Army cant just bury the incident, why is so that you believe the the same RDs would not forces the top brass to conduct a fair inquiry?

You know what, it's the Army, if i am questioned by my troops if i do something (minutely) wrong, though i happened to be 'owner' of their a$$ which i can kick anytime, how do you expect that the Army would just bury the issues just like that.

i wish you could attend the conferences with senior commanders, or the addresses by the COASs (the current one and the previous ones), or the unit durbars (where the COs interact with the troops) and may be you would come to know how today's soldiers ask 'difficult and impertinent questions' and at the same time 'think critically'. It's 2011, damn it!

BTW, Musey, have you ever heard of a punjabi saying which goes like; mootar mai say machliya pakarna (to fish in urine). Just asking...

 

[muse]

Xeric

You got talent - a couple of rough edges, but we'll have you polished up in no time.

And yes, damn straight, this army will learn or it will be made to learn -- kinda depends really, lets see how this CJP and ZAB come out.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Internal investigation will be made?? How will we know?? Because they said they investigated??

Sorry,you wont know. army is not obliged to make the findings public unless it is instructed by law or if there is any public interest in doing so

This is purely an internal matter of the army which is not obliged to make the findings public as it doesn’t concern it as the dead are actually army personnel. But if you feel so strongly about it then instead of just bashing the army and suggesting a white wash over the incident why don’t you gather a group of like minded people and petition an open public inquiry in the supreme court?

A small request, perhaps someone can points us to other internal investigations in the army and where we may access such reports??

You are doubting army’s intention of launching an investigation about an incident which is clearly blue on blue situation. Whereas the history tells us that it didn’t cover up multiple murders during Sindh operation (against dacoits) when an army major was involved in the killing of 7 people in the name of operation which was latter found out to be a family feud. The army not only punished the guy responsible but also his CO and the brigade commander as well. I myself am personally aware of a case where an officer was arrested and then handed over to civilian courts after getting court marshelled. it involved the stealing and using the G3 in a domestic dispute. ask me more if you want to know.

So, now all the "usual suspects" are sitting on their thumbs and mouthing condolences - yet had they cared for the lives of those in uniform, they would have been vigilant to ask questions about core proficiencies, it might have prevented these deaths -- make sense??

this was an unnecessary comment and somewhat insulting. please educate yourself with the NATO friendly fire incidents. not sure if even NATO falls short of your "core proficiencies" crieteria?

Friendly fire

friendly fire incidents are an unavoidable fact and byproduct of war. no matter how proficient their risk can be minimised but not totally eliminated. no force can claim with confidence. not even uncle Sam's army

 

[S-2]

My sincere condolences and prayers to the families and friends of these deceased constabulary officers and troops. Soldiers at the brigade level and below aren't much different than civilians. They too are caught in wars not of their making and too often suffer the consequences of decisions made by others.

God bless them all.

Present arms!

 

[Xeric]

Sorry,you wont know. army is not obliged to make the findings public unless it is instructed by law or if there is any public interest in doing so

This is purely an internal matter of the army which is not obliged to make the findings public as it doesn’t concern it as the dead are actually army personnel. But if you feel so strongly about it then instead of just bashing the army and suggesting a white wash over the incident why don’t you gather a group of like minded people and petition an open public inquiry in the supreme court?



You are doubting army’s intention of launching an investigation about an incident which is clearly blue on blue situation. Whereas the history tells us that it didn’t cover up multiple murders during Sindh operation (against dacoits) when an army major was involved in the killing of 7 people in the name of operation which was latter found out to be a family feud. The army not only punished the guy responsible but also his CO and the brigade commander as well. I myself am personally aware of a case where an officer was arrested and then handed over to civilian courts after getting court marshelled. it involved the stealing and using the G3 in a domestic dispute. ask me more if you want to know.



this was an unnecessary comment and somewhat insulting. please educate yourself with the NATO friendly fire incidents. not sure if even NATO falls short of your "core proficiencies" crieteria?

Friendly fire

friendly fire incidents are an unavoidable fact and byproduct of war. no matter how proficient their risk can be minimised but not totally eliminated. no force can claim with confidence. not even uncle Sam's army

Or alternatively he can just go to 11 Corps HQ and contact the PRO there and ask about the outcome of the inquiry.

But he should make sure one thing, that is, he must tell them that he being the most patriotic Pakistani on the face of this earth and being part of an open world where freedom and human rights are the talk of the day, he has the right to know what happened to them who were responsible for this incident, or else he might land himself in one of the quarter guards of 11 Corps.

 

[Rafi]

Blue on Blue is unavoidable part of war.

 

[pakdefender]

May the Fallen Rest in Peace.

Such like incidents , unfortunately do happen in wars , similar incident happened in Siachin where two of our posts shelled each other for more than a day.

and there is no doubt that there will be an inquiry into this , there are inquiries into smallest things like being missing from parade state.
This is loss of troops and officers so there is no question about an inquiry not taking place into this.

Although I must point out that squabbling over inquiry/no-inquiry doesnt change the fact that we lost 13 of the finest men.
Their sacrifices must not go in vain.