Pakistan snubs US over Osama informer

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

How do you equate helping catch the biggest terrorist in the world to selling your mother ??

The Doctor apparently knowingly cooperated in an intelligence operation being conducted by a foreign intelligence agency without the knowledge and sanction of the Pakistani government.

How did the Doctor know for certain that the foreign intelligence operation he was cooperating with was not using a cover story of 'identifying OBL', while the actual purpose of the intelligence operation could have been something detrimental to Pakistan's National Security?

Regardless of what the outcome was, or what the Doctor THOUGHT he was helping accomplish, the facts are that the Doctor willingly cooperated with a foreign intelligence agency in carrying out intelligence operations in Pakistan.

 

[VCheng]

...............
Regardless of what the outcome was, or what the Doctor THOUGHT he was helping accomplish, the facts are that the Doctor willingly cooperated with a foreign intelligence agency in carrying out intelligence operations in Pakistan.

Then let the facts be presented in court!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Then let the facts be presented in court!

They have been pretty much accepted by the US through Panetta's interview, and the accounts about the Doctor's behavior by his colleagues.

That said, I agree, they should be presented in court - but if the Pakistani constitution allows, I would prefer he be tried in a military court for espionage and treason,

 

[foxbat]

The Doctor apparently knowingly cooperated in an intelligence operation being conducted by a foreign intelligence agency without the knowledge and sanction of the Pakistani government.

How did the Doctor know for certain that the foreign intelligence operation he was cooperating with was not using a cover story of 'identifying OBL', while the actual purpose of the intelligence operation could have been something detrimental to Pakistan's National Security?

Well we wont know the answer to either of these till we get to hear the good doctor's side of story in the Pakistani courts..Provided he does get produced there. May be we will get to hear some more information as well which Pakistan establishment does not want the world to hear and thats why the doc is not being charged or produced in court..

Regardless of what the outcome was, or what the Doctor THOUGHT he was helping accomplish, the facts are that the Doctor willingly cooperated with a foreign intelligence agency in carrying out intelligence operations in Pakistan.

Is this proven in a Pakistani court yet? or are you convicting him without a trial?

 

[VCheng]

.....................
That said, I agree, they should be presented in court - but if the Pakistani constitution allows, I would prefer he be tried in a military court for espionage and treason,

If Pakistani law allows for a military trial of a civilian, then I can agree with that too. The venue is not important. A fair and speedy trial, followed by a verdict and punishment as prescribed under the law of the land is the correct thing to do. Delaying it is NOT.

 

[foxbat]

They have been pretty much accepted by the US through Panetta's interview, and the accounts about the Doctor's behavior by his colleagues.

That said, I agree, they should be presented in court - but if the Pakistani constitution allows, I would prefer he be tried in a military court for espionage and treason,

Arent military courts reserved for military personnel ?

 

[fd24]

I think they left him in Pakistan on purpose.. Now if Pakistan punishes him, they will get a bad name internationally and if they dont punish him, the establishment will look like towing the American line.. Damned if you do, Damned if you dont...

I think you will find internationally in THIS particular case Pakistan hold the moral ground. He is a Pakistani citizen being trialled in Pakistan under the Pakistani judiciary system. I dont think anyone should have an issue with this. Only people it concerns is Americans as it makes them look immoral. They have approached a Pakistani national to carry an act out behind his governments back. They asked him to carry an illegal act in another sovreign nation. They perhaps are making noises now to avoid further embarassement.
What the EVENTUAL outcome was and is irrelavant - he is going to be trialled in Pakistan for treason - good riddance is my gut feeling.

 

[VCheng]

....................
What the EVENTUAL outcome was and is irrelavant - he is going to be trialled in Pakistan for treason - good riddance is my gut feeling.

The old Zen Master (a.k.a. The Sphinx) says to wait and see!

 

[fd24]

Arent military courts reserved for military personnel ?

This is a unique case of crimes for espionage and treason AGAINST the nation. Its an act he was fully aware of and if the constitution allows the severity of his crime is such that if it befits a military court then so be it - i dont think its an issue - i think what is an issue is the evidence is heard and the correct decision is made.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Well we wont know the answer to either of these till we get to hear the good doctor's side of story in the Pakistani courts..Provided he does get produced there. May be we will get to hear some more information as well which Pakistan establishment does not want the world to hear and thats why the doc is not being charged or produced in court..


Is this proven in a Pakistani court yet? or are you convicting him without a trial?

Unless Panetta was lying and making a fool out of the American people, media and legislators (who are introducing Bills to grant the Doctor Citizenship because of his assistance and cooperation with the CIA) he pretty much admitted to all the above in his interview.

---------- Post added at 12:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:56 PM ----------

Delaying it is NOT.

I agree, and had someone like Imran Khan been the PM/President, a lot of the things happening now would not be occurring.

 

[fd24]

The old Zen Master (a.k.a. The Sphinx) says to wait and see!

but the zen master wasnt wise - he was a wanabe wiseman - you use his name well. In fact in many fables he is a mislead fool.You hold his title well.
It may be a case of waiting and seeing - here i am giving my own personal opinion and sharing that with friends on the forum. I am allowed to air an opinion - thats all im doing. I think there is a strong case that he will be found guilty.

 

[foxbat]

I think you will find internationally in THIS particular case Pakistan hold the moral ground. He is a Pakistani citizen being trialled in Pakistan under the Pakistani judiciary system. I dont think anyone should have an issue with this. Only people it concerns is Americans as it makes them look immoral. They have approached a Pakistani national to carry an act out behind his governments back. They asked him to carry an illegal act in another sovreign nation. They perhaps are making noises now to avoid further embarassement.
What the EVENTUAL outcome was and is irrelavant - he is going to be trialled in Pakistan for treason - good riddance is my gut feeling.

As I said, Damned if you do...

---------- Post added at 11:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:31 PM ----------

This is a unique case of crimes for espionage and treason AGAINST the nation. Its an act he was fully aware of and if the constitution allows the severity of his crime is such that if it befits a military court then so be it - i dont think its an issue - i think what is an issue is the evidence is heard and the correct decision is made.

True.. Agree with you.. But I dont think Pakistan will do this in Military court and PA itself wouldnt want to convey an impression of rigging the court proceedings by taking over the proceedings..

 

[VCheng]

........................
I agree, and had someone like Imran Khan been the PM/President, a lot of the things happening now would not be occurring.

Well, it looks like IK will soon get his chance at proving himself. Let's wait and see!

but the zen master wasnt wise - he was a wanabe wiseman - you use his name well. In fact in many fables he is a mislead fool.You hold his title well.
It may be a case of waiting and seeing - here i am giving my own personal opinion and sharing that with friends on the forum. I am allowed to air an opinion - thats all im doing. I think there is a strong case that he will be found guilty.

The journey on the road to wisdom is never ending, some are farther along than others surely, but all have more to learn, including old Zen masters!

 

[foxbat]

Unless Panetta was lying and making a fool out of the American people, media and legislators (who are introducing Bills to grant the Doctor Citizenship because of his assistance and cooperation with the CIA) he pretty much admitted to all the above in his interview.

So if you are taking Panetta on face value on his word, why wouldnt you extend the same trust towards Mullen who said ISI and terrorists work hand in hand. Just because this time a senior American official's word backs what you want to be true, it automatically shouldn't become irrefutable truth..

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

So if you are taking Panetta on face value on his word, why wouldnt you extend the same trust towards Mullen who said ISI and terrorists work hand in hand. Just because this time a senior American official's word backs what you want to be true, it automatically shouldn't become irrefutable truth..

Same lame old attempts to equate two different kinds of statements:

1. Mullen offered an opinion about the ISI, based on whatever information, speculation or gossip the NDS/CIA had provided him with - Mullen had no concrete evidence of anything, he was not part of the ISI and therefore could not and cannot speak directly or credibly on the ISI's relationships with any entity, save the US military of which he was JCOS.

2. Panetta, as the man in charge of the CIA and the intelligence operation run to identify OBL and raid his hideout, spoke directly about one of the assets his organization, the CIA, used - the Doctor.

Understand the difference yet?