Pakistan should persuade world to sign nuclear deals

[Neo]

NSG agree for waiver only after satisfying themselves with measures taken up by India for non - proliferation.

Partly true....half the members got bullied by USA to pass the waiver.

Neo, China could also referring to North Korea or Iran, China has good office with them too.

Iran is a signatory to NPT, her isolation is politically motivated by mainly USA.
North Korea is already engaged in negotiations with USA to recieve two small civil light water nuclear reactors in trade for the termination of her military nuclear programme. China doesn't need to advocate her case.
She clearly meant Pakistan.

 

[Neo]

why would al-Qaeeda buy uranium from india when they r in "safe haven" where they can get ready made nuke bomb and a delivery system to.

Cut the crap and safe it for some Indian Forum. Unless you have prove to support your claim refrain from posting bs!

Consider this a warning.

 

[Neo]

Talk for deal with China was already in progress.

Yes indeed, Musharraf visited China just ahead of Bush's South Asia Tour in IIRC in 2005. Six new 350MW reactors were discussed.
We had to await the outcome of the Indo-US deal before starting a compaign of our own.

By passing nuclear waiver to India the NPT is vitually dead and NSG has lost all credibility or morality on the non proliferation issue. Pakistan too is an emerging economy with energy demand growing by 15% annually. In few years we'll be claiming our share of oil pushing oil prices up in the global market and it will be hard to ignore this newcomer.

The real game is yet to begin.

 

[ashfaque]

Yes indeed, Musharraf visited China just ahead of Bush's South Asia Tour in IIRC in 2005. Six new 350MW reactors were discussed.
We had to await the outcome of the Indo-US deal before starting a compaign of our own.

By passing nuclear waiver to India the NPT is vitually dead and NSG has lost all credibility or morality on the non proliferation issue. Pakistan too is an emerging economy with energy demand growing by 15% annually. In few years we'll be claiming our share of oil pushing oil prices up in the global market and it will be hard to ignore this newcomer.

The real game is yet to begin.

In that sense NPT and NSG may not hold any value as evey thing available from black market.
As far as Pakistan-China deal is concern then there is already all possible nuclear technology passed to Pakistan, so both can come in open with a formal deal. But I do not think NSG memebers will buy China and Pakistan's argument, and even if you assume NSG has no value now, unless Pakistan get waiver from them, it will not have any meaning for Pakistan, because this is not the question of energy, main aim to end the denial regime.

As for as your comment about NSG has lost credibility on proliferation, is not true. Actually by giving waiver to India they have taken the N-P to next level.

 

[Neo]

In that sense NPT and NSG may not hold any value as evey thing available from black market.
As far as Pakistan-China deal is concern then there is already all possible nuclear technology passed to Pakistan, so both can come in open with a formal deal. But I do not think NSG memebers will buy China and Pakistan's argument, and even if you assume NSG has no value now, unless Pakistan get waiver from them, it will not have any meaning for Pakistan, because this is not the question of energy, main aim to end the denial regime.

Nobody knows whats discussed between China and USA before India was granted a waiver. China could have blocked the deal, she's one country that can not be bullied by anyone but she didn't block it. Pakistan is definitely in the picture.

As for as your comment about NSG has lost credibility on proliferation, is not true. Actually by giving waiver to India they have taken the N-P to next level.

Isn't it comic that the NSG' (NPT) policy was referred to as discriminatory by every single India just a few days ago?

NSG made history by passing the waiver, we have our precedent now to take it to next level.

After three decades of struggle and hard work you should give us some credit and atleast realise now that if we really want something, we get it!
Simple as that!

 

[Climax]

Why is everbody banned in this thread?

 

[Climax]

Interesting views but not without flaws. Firstly Pakistan already operates three reactors, two purchased (Kanupp, Chasnupp) and one locally built (Khushab), none of these was gifted and yes we have money to buy more.
Learn from the past, we've spent more than est. $30 billion on our nuclear programme since 1969 with much much weaker economy and less resources.
Current economy crisis will eventually settle down, our market is strong enough to deal with ongoing issues. Nuclear infrastructure has our top priority, money will not be an issue.

As far as the political capital is concerned I think we're spending it wisely. There's a reason why USA hasn't attacked Pakistan, not will it ever come sofar. Pakistan is gradually shifting to Chinese Camp, thats the best political investment we've ever made, should have been done decades ago.

US trippling non military aid, clearing sanctions for military hardaware and praising Pakistan for her support in WoT etc indicate that US is not ready to let Pakistan go into Chinese Camp yet, if we play our cards right we can cash in support from both parties.

Great reply old friend.

 

[cooldude]

It is very naive to believe that India got the deal only because of economic reasons. Reasons for this deal are very strategic. This deal provides India access to world class technology and status of power in the world. US has already started talking about making India a full member of the NSG. In long term I wont be surprised if US backs India for a permanent position in UN security council. India can be a strong supporter for US in the future because of the help it is receiving today.

The reason Pakistan might not get such a deal is that Pakistan is not perceived to be a future global power. Pakistan by trying to be friends with both US and China is not helping its cause in getting strategic deals. Pakistan needs to get out of India centric framework, needs to maintain a stable political situation for many years to show that it has maturated as a country and needs to grow economically at 6+% rate to have a diplomatic case to think about getting such deals.

 

[Goodperson]

Nobody knows whats discussed between China and USA before India was granted a waiver. China could have blocked the deal, she's one country that can not be bullied by anyone but she didn't block it. Pakistan is definitely in the picture.

Bush is a straight guy does not believe much in explaining, He would have said
do you agree to waiver or should I open can of worms .

(Newspaper Articles: China tested nukes for Pakistan in ’90)

Isn't it comic that the NSG' (NPT) policy was referred to as discriminatory by every single India just a few days ago?

NSG made history by passing the waiver, we have our precedent now to take it to next level.

Remember why was NSG created ? and now the waiver if one reads in between it is simple to understand.

After three decades of struggle and hard work you should give us some credit and atleast realise now that if we really want something, we get it!
Simple as that!

Most of the time in those three decades US was with you and china was always with you. Pakistan could have worked for something similar and got it.

 

[nitesh]

Nobody knows whats discussed between China and USA before India was granted a waiver. China could have blocked the deal, she's one country that can not be bullied by anyone but she didn't block it. Pakistan is definitely in the picture.

Neo, I think this is what must have been discussed between Mr. Bush and Mr. Hu

quoting some excerpts

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/05/b...gin&adxnnlx=1220677313-bpQ34mD5L3xbpjAYdO5szg

It has been on a buying binge in the United States over the last seven years, snapping up roughly $1 trillion worth of Treasury bonds and mortgage-backed debt issued by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

Those investments have been declining sharply in value when converted from dollars into the strong yuan, casting a spotlight on the central bank’s tiny capital base. The bank’s capital, just $3.2 billion, has not grown during the buying spree, despite private warnings from the International Monetary Fund.

Given the poor performance of foreign bonds, the Chinese government could decide to shift some of its foreign exchange reserves into global stock markets.

The central bank started making modest purchases of foreign stocks last winter, but has kept almost all of its reserves in bonds, like other central banks.

The finance ministry, however, has pushed for investments in overseas stocks. Last year, it wrested control of the $200 billion China Investment Corporation, which had been bankrolled by the central bank. That corporation’s most publicized move, a $3 billion investment in the Blackstone Group in May of last year, has lost more than 43 percent of its value.

For instance, a Chinese blogger complained last month, “It is as if China has made a gift to the United States Navy of 200 brand new aircraft carriers.”

Bankers estimate that $1 trillion of China’s total foreign exchange reserves of $1.8 trillion are in American securities. With aircraft carriers costing up to $5 billion apiece, $1 trillion would, in theory, buy 200 of them

China spent more than one-eighth of its entire economic output last year on foreign bonds, and then picked up the pace during the first half of this year. Chinese officials have suggested in recent comments that they are increasingly interested in stopping the yuan’s rise, and thus are willing to continue buying foreign securities to support the dollar. In fact, the yuan weakened slightly against the dollar last month after 26 consecutive months of gains.

Along with Treasuries, China has invested heavily in mortgage-backed bonds from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the struggling mortgage finance giants that are sponsored by the United States government. Standard & Poor’s estimates China’s holdings at $340 billion. (Lehman is trying to junk it's real estate debt into another company.. sort of like dropping the mill stone that is dragging it down).

I think some sort of economic package must have been discussed as US is planning to buy most of the stocks.

 

[donrahul]

Daman Yar why are Pakistanis not listening to the President of US donrahul

Why they dont stop eating when there are many problems and US attacks in NWFP??

Why dont they stop taking bath till the time they get country out of taliban mess ?

I dint say that the Deal is a crazy idea! I said that asking for such a deal when the country is swaying like a house of cards is crazy! Dear girl! Read the lines and between the lines!

 

[Neo]

‘China supported Pakistan at NSG’​

NEW DELHI, Sept 8: Foreign ministers of India and China met on Monday amid accusations by India’s main security official that Beijing tried to torpedo last week’s decision by the Nuclear Suppliers’ Group to lift a 34-year old ban on India for civil nuclear commerce.

Meanwhile, Indian newspapers highlighted comments by the Chinese delegation in Vienna, which they said insinuated that Beijing wants a similar NSG waiver to be given to Pakistan too.

Another report quoted Chinese Foreign Minister Yang Jiechi as saying ahead of his meeting with Indian counterpart Pranab Mukherjee that it was “also China’s hope that the NSG would equally address the aspirations of all parties for the peaceful use of nuclear power while adhering to the nuclear non-proliferation mechanism”.

The possibility that the Chinese comment may have been made to represent Iran’s perspective on the matter as well did not seem to get any hearing from the Indian media.

On his part, Mr Yang, after closed-door meetings with Indian leaders, denied that Beijing had tried to block the waiver at the NSG meeting.

“The Chinese side adopted a responsible and positive attitude... with regard to discussions at the NSG and now we see a consensus was reached,” he told reporters. “We didn’t do anything to block it. We played a constructive role,” he said.

There were mixed signals about how far India wanted to go to express its disappointment with Beijing for apparently dragging its feet on the India-specific waiver given by the NSG. Mr Mukherjee parried a question on China’s role, saying: “It is their internal matter, and in any case, every country has its right to express its sovereign will.” The impression is that India’s National Security Adviser M.K. Narayanan was less circumspect in slamming China. There has been no reaction from Prime Minister Manmohan Singh on the issue.

 

[Goodperson]

China-Pak nuclear deal not possible: India
9 Sep 2008, 1008 hrs IST,AGENCIES

NEW DELHI: Amidst reports that Asif Ali Zardari, the president-elect of Pakistan, will visit China next week to negotiate a nuclear deal similar to the one between India and the US, govt sources have said that India is confident that the Sino-Pak deal will not happen. ( Watch )

Pakistan’s poor non-proliferation record will make it difficult for the deal to get through NSG or IAEA, sources said adding that A Q Khan’s record will also make it difficult for the country.

On Monday, a Pakistan official on condition of anonymity said, "Pakistan is already in touch with China for the nuclear deal to meet its energy crisis and the talks would start during Zardari's visit.”

The official said under the proposed deal, China will supply nuclear material to Pakistan to meet its energy crisis

On Saturday, the Chinese government not only nearly toppled India's Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG) bid in Vienna, but went a step further by advocating a similar nuclear deal for Pakistan

China made the case for Pakistan in a veiled statement, saying it hoped the NSG would ‘equally address the aspirations of all parties.’ A number of analysts have taken the phrase ‘of all parties’ to mean a reference to its ally Pakistan.

Chinese Foreign Minister, Cheng Jingye, head of Chinese delegation scheduled to visit on Sunday said, “It is also China's hope that the NSG would equally address the aspirations of all parties for the peaceful use of nuclear power while adhering to the nuclear non-proliferation mechanism.”

China-Pak nuclear deal not possible: India-India-The Times of India

 

[dr.umer]

China-Pak nuclear deal not possible: India
9 Sep 2008, 1008 hrs IST,AGENCIES

NEW DELHI: Amidst reports that Asif Ali Zardari, the president-elect of Pakistan, will visit China next week to negotiate a nuclear deal similar to the one between India and the US, govt sources have said that India is confident that the Sino-Pak deal will not happen. ( Watch )

Pakistan’s poor non-proliferation record will make it difficult for the deal to get through NSG or IAEA, sources said adding that A Q Khan’s record will also make it difficult for the country.

On Monday, a Pakistan official on condition of anonymity said, "Pakistan is already in touch with China for the nuclear deal to meet its energy crisis and the talks would start during Zardari's visit.”

The official said under the proposed deal, China will supply nuclear material to Pakistan to meet its energy crisis

On Saturday, the Chinese government not only nearly toppled India's Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG) bid in Vienna, but went a step further by advocating a similar nuclear deal for Pakistan

China made the case for Pakistan in a veiled statement, saying it hoped the NSG would ‘equally address the aspirations of all parties.’ A number of analysts have taken the phrase ‘of all parties’ to mean a reference to its ally Pakistan.

Chinese Foreign Minister, Cheng Jingye, head of Chinese delegation scheduled to visit on Sunday said, “It is also China's hope that the NSG would equally address the aspirations of all parties for the peaceful use of nuclear power while adhering to the nuclear non-proliferation mechanism.”

China-Pak nuclear deal not possible: India-India-The Times of India

What else one can expect from Pakistan phobic Indian Press?

 

[Always Neutral]

Dear All,

I think China is making all empty sounds as their strategy of not allowing the deal to go thru by letting small countries like Ireland and NZ in the NSG raise objections failed. These countries have very vocal anti-Nuclear presssure groups and are not ususally suseptible to US pressures.

The Chinese took a very calculated guess that these countries would hold out in the NSG, however with George Bush taking personal interest most countries were won over. Even if today China promises a similiar deal to Pakistan I am not sure whether they have the same clout as the US has with the NSG and without the US the deal will be a non-starter. Also in this process the only other country like Russia was silently supporting India and will definately not help Pakistan.

I am sad that India got waiver from the NSG without signing the NPT as now dual technology equipment especially test and re-search equipment can be imported and mis-used for developing other areas of the Defnce Sector and lead to an arms race in the continent.

Lastly I doubt Zardari has the sauve ness needed to charm the NSG.

Regards