Pakistan Sets Eyes on China’s New J-35 Fighter Jet

[khanmubashir]

Not even UK Italy
and France Germany
the biggest economies of EU
Can make next Gen jets individually
They have formed pairs and trying to get more partners for their JV

Pakistan would need foreign partner for azm

China looks more feasible
But issue is their tech isn't at par with NATO standard yet and we always want Chinese weapons augmented with NATO tech which would be hard for FC 31 with current and foreseeable geopolitics

And since Chinese have already developed alot of FC 31 technology they perhaps won't share that much technology

An issue that even exits between UK and USA over f35


Turkey is other option
They already worked on f35 Project and their tfx is in infancy

So JV with em will give us alot more experience and tot

But it would take much more time thus money

 

[KaiserX]

What if j35 is the project Azm? What if these customization are being done according to the input provided by PAF and TAF regarding j31/FC31? What if j35 is only meant for Pakistan. May be a different variant might be used by Chinese navy.

FC-31 will be procured off the shelf and most likely a portion of the JF-17s production line will be geared towards producing the Fighters.

AZM is a completely separate domestic program which may use similar engines as the FC-31, and JF-17 block 3.

This is all old news... it was stated since 2005 that Pakistan was interested in the "FC-31", most members at that time assumed FC-31 was the PAF name for the J-10 when in fact it turned out to be a secret program that was only revealed a decade later. Various PAF air chiefs have stated we are getting FC-31s...

Most likely PAF will go with an initial order of 42-50 then follow on orders and domestic production of certain parts.

 

[IceCold]

I think the PAF will take the FC-31 design as-is, i.e., with a Chinese AESA radar, Chinese EW/ECM, and Chinese AAMs. That will solve one-half of the equation right away.

Just a thought why cant we start working on our own items while the project itself takes shape? What i mean to say is if FC-31 is what we are targeting at, than at least by the time it gets ready it should incoporate our own radar, ECM suite with a domestic AAM. If not possible for all 3 than maybe some of the stuff like radar. with our own missile or the ECM suite with our own AAM. Just like what Israelis do with their F-16s. They have no restrictions from the US on end user or transfer of technology yet they buy the plan and put in their own stuff. We need to be thinking a head as well. Solely relying for everything on a third party source is never a good idea no matter how far fetched the idea of Pakistan China seperating their ways may sound at this stage. We were once in a similar relation with the US.

 

[KaiserX]

Just a thought why cant we start working on our own items while the project itself takes shape? What i mean to say is if FC-31 is what we are targeting at, than at least by the time it gets ready it should incoporate our own radar, ECM suite with a domestic AAM. If not possible for all 3 than maybe some of the stuff like radar. with our own missile or the ECM suite with our own AAM. Just like what Israelis do with their F-16s. They have no restrictions from the US on end user or transfer of technology yet they buy the plan and put in their own stuff. We need to be thinking a head as well. Solely relying for everything on a third party source is never a good idea no matter how far fetched the idea of Pakistan China seperating their ways may sound at this stage. We were once in a similar relation with the US.

Take a JF-17, give it twin engines, a more stealthy design, advanced avionics and you pretty much end of with the FC-31.

Im guessing many of the same parts would be used apart from the airframe. Building a 5th generation airframe is completely different from the modular panels that are put together to develop a 4th generation airframe.

5th generation airframes are developed in a single piece composed of advanced stealth fibers.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

What if j35 is the project Azm? What if these customization are being done according to the input provided by PAF and TAF regarding j31/FC31? What if j35 is only meant for Pakistan. May be a different variant might be used by Chinese navy.

We have to remember that the J-35 is meant for the PLAN. So, a lot of the key changes can't have anything to do with the PAF because the PAF doesn't have aircraft carriers. Stuff like a specific landing gear, stopping salt erosion, etc don't apply to 80%+ of the PAF's fighter fleet. It's unlikely we'd recommend or foot the bill for those.

I don't think we could've offered much input to the Chinese either. The FC-31 was probably fine the way it was, but because the PLA hadn't adopted it, the PAF wasn't sure of its viability. It's one thing to co-fund the JF-17, but to just complete a FGFA is a whole other ballgame, financially speaking.

But now that the PLAN is moving ahead with the J-35, I think the FC-31 has enough 'lift' from China for the PAF to seriously consider it.

 

[RedHulk]

FC-31 will be procured off the shelf and most likely a portion of the JF-17s production line will be geared towards producing the Fighters.

AZM is a completely separate domestic program which may use similar engines as the FC-31, and JF-17 block 3.

This is all old news... it was stated since 2005 that Pakistan was interested in the "FC-31", most members at that time assumed FC-31 was the PAF name for the J-10 when in fact it turned out to be a secret program that was only revealed a decade later. Various PAF air chiefs have stated we are getting FC-31s...

JF17 block lll and j35 both will use WS19 engine. So there you go one problem solved. I believe j35 is Azm project. I also believe Turkey have something to do with its designing. J35 airframe will be different from FC31.

 

[LKJ86]

I think the PLAN and J-35 has given the FC-31 the momentum it would need to reach fruition.

Everyone would forget the name "FC-31", just as to "FC-20".

 

[The Eagle]

There can be a twist in situation, expect always; we can't settle for less than V's type for next decade since most of fighters will be nearing retirement or already did so. Since, the talks on other side can't be predicted and anything is possible; one will never stop looking for a potent platform to fill the gap so either call it stop gap measure or a supplementing platform which will also help us building our own 5th Gen.

I don't see any relation to project Azm with any sort of procurement as such. My idea is like we flew Falcons, mirages & F7/Ps and we have one of our own called Thunder. Similarly, Project Azm is a giant leap forward which is not bound to build merely a 5th Gen fighter but in-fact it is a whole set of program including R&D, Science & Tech, local manufacturing and includes UAVs as well.

FC-31/J-31 or J-35, if someone smells the interest, could be the only reason to have an option if we aren't getting hands on Vipers/Block-72. That is just my opinion. Furthermore, that would have been a sight if EFT could have joined the fleet.

J-35 or FC-31 will definitely help a lot in regard to fill the gaps, moving forward with generation procurement and then a good start for own product in the end. It is a fact that we aren't going solo for Azm rather, coalition will be sought and who knows things progressed a lot. But all that doesn't relate to any fighter procurement such as J-35/FC-31. Remember the words "East & West".

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Just a thought why cant we start working on our own items while the project itself takes shape? What i mean to say is if FC-31 is what we are targeting at, than at least by the time it gets ready it should incoporate our own radar, ECM suite with a domestic AAM. If not possible for all 3 than maybe some of the stuff like radar. with our own missile or the ECM suite with our own AAM. Just like what Israelis do with their F-16s. They have no restrictions from the US on end user or transfer of technology yet they buy the plan and put in their own stuff. We need to be thinking a head as well. Solely relying for everything on a third party source is never a good idea no matter how far fetched the idea of Pakistan China seperating their ways may sound at this stage. We were once in a similar relation with the US.

It's an issue of controlling cost and slashing timelines.

I get the sense that if the PAF signs onto the FC-31, it'll want the fighter ASAP. So, customization is probably off the table for at least the first tranche of fighters. It could be an option for later tranches.

I think the PAF needs to separate R&D from near-term requirements. By merging the two, R&D will always lose as the PAF will always be predisposed to getting an off-the-shelf solution.

So, let it take up the FC-31 as is (with zero complications), but on the side, continue AZM as a more high-level R&D effort. In other words, slowly (without rush or pressure) build-up the capacity and expertise to just create your own technology demonstrator. Use that demonstrator to learn about fighter development at a much deeper level.

If we let AvRID do this for about 10-15 years without interruption, then the 6/7 generation of fighters could actually be a true indigenous project. But the key is to give our R&D space to breathe and make mistakes. Every R&D failure is actually a step forward, but only in the sense of developing technology. If we tie it to a real-world need (like India does with its projects), then we'll be stuck with DRDO-like complaints.

 

[Bossman]

And we are working also on project AZM, if FC-31 or its modified version will induct into PAF then it will be a bonus for Pakistan but i don't think it will happen because it would kill project AZM prospect

Project Azm is actually a strategic political stunt with clear message to the US and the US knows it. China will not sell stealth aircraft to Pakistan. However, if the US sells F35s to the Indians. Pakistan will quickly get a stealth fighter under the Azm project supposedly a JV but basically a J35 or the JF35.

 

[The Eagle]

JF17 block lll and j35 both will use WS10 engine. So there you go one problem solved. I believe j35 is Azm project. I also believe Turkey have something to do with its designing. J35 airframe will be different from FC31.

J-35 could be different due to carrier based design, as I observe. FC-31 had the versions 1 and 2. I was keeping an eye of FC-31/V2 for a while. Then I felt like there are no side-bays for side winders but in the end, we now have a new fighter apparently designated as J-35. However, Project Azm is totally different thing.

 

[LKJ86]

FC-31 had the versions 1 and 2.

They are just technology demonstrators, just like YF-22 and YF-35.

Even can't be called prototypes...

 

[The Eagle]

They are just technology demonstrators, just like YF-22 and YF-35.

I agree. My intention to understand, was that FC-31 V2 was especially land based yet born a J-35 for carrier based fighter. I don't if we are going to pay, just for the sake of argument in this case, for a wing folding carrier based J-35 as compare to land based Fc-31 V2.

By the way, you might know more than me but I saw that there was a foreign delegation visiting FC-31 home during or around that period of China Airshow 2018.

 

[RedHulk]

Project Azm is actually a strategic political stunt with clear message to the US and the US knows it. China will not sell stealth aircraft to Pakistan. However, if the US sells F35s to the Indians. Pakistan will quickly get a stealth fighter under the Azm project supposedly a JV but basically a J35 or the JF35.

We gave china access to American stealth helicopter crashed in abbotabad. Some part Chinese stealth technology is reverse engineered from there as well.
https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/pakistan-returns-stealth-us-chopper/story?id=13676083
So I don't think there is problem in getting j35 from China.

 

[KaiserX]

There can be a twist in situation, expect always; we can't settle for less than V's type for next decade since most of fighters will be nearing retirement or already did so. Since, the talks on other side can't be predicted and anything is possible; one will never stop looking for a potent platform to fill the gap so either call it stop gap measure or a supplementing platform which will also help us building our own 5th Gen.

I don't see any relation to project Azm with any sort of procurement as such. My idea is like we flew Falcons, mirages & F7/Ps and we have one of our own called Thunder. Similarly, Project Azm is a giant leap forward which is not bound to build merely a 5th Gen fighter but in-fact it is a whole set of program including R&D, Science & Tech, local manufacturing and includes UAVs as well.

FC-31/J-31 or J-35, if someone smells the interest, could be the only reason to have an option if we aren't getting hands on Vipers/Block-72. That is just my opinion. Furthermore, that would have been a sight if EFT could have joined the fleet.

J-35 or FC-31 will definitely help a lot in regard to fill the gaps, moving forward with generation procurement and then a good start for own product in the end. It is a fact that we aren't going solo for Azm rather, coalition will be sought and who knows things progressed a lot. But all that doesn't relate to any fighter procurement such as J-35/FC-31. Remember the words "East & West".

There is absolutely 0, none, null chance of getting the F-16v. Whether PAF is getting J-10 or not whether PAF is getting FC-31 or not. None of that matters because PAF WILL NOT EVEN CONSIDER NEW F-16s at the point in time.

I agree with the rest of your point tho. FC-31 procurement is completely separate from our own domestic 5th generation program. The procurement of the FC-31 will help Pakistan adopt technologies for its own domestic program.

JF17 block lll and j35 both will use WS10 engine. So there you go one problem solved. I believe j35 is Azm project. I also believe Turkey have something to do with its designing. J35 airframe will be different from FC31.

More than likely Azm will also use the same engine as the FC-31 esp if its a Chinese engine. PAF will have its own design requirements. Turks/Chinese will provide technical inputs for avionics (Only Related to AZM).

Turkey in no way will be allowed to touch the FC-31 nor would China ever allow that so FC-31 will be purely a COTS procurement.