Pakistan Seeks Thales Damocles Targeting Pod For JF-17 Aircraft

[HAIDER]

Pakistan is assessing the Thales-made Damocles targeting pod to be mounted on its JF-17 aircraft for giving the fighter precision-targeting capability.

Pakistan Air Force deputy chief Muhammad Ashfaque Arain, currently in Paris to discuss the possibility of acquiring the Domacles pod was quoted by Reuters today as saying, “the Damocles is a battle- proven system and the other options are not. If we do not get the Damocles pod for example, then we will need to look for alternate options that may not be proven.”

The JF-17 is a China- Pakistan joint venture manufactured in Pakistan. Arain said that the JF-17 with the Pakistan Air Force had been performing well but its usefulness in current operations was limited because it lacks precision-targeting, a need which would be fulfilled if Thales sold it the Damocles pod.

Arain revealed that 16 JF-17s will be produced this year in Pakistan and a further 20 in 2017. The aircraft are equipped to carry air-to-air and air-to-ground missiles and bombs.

The Damocles is a 3rd generation targeting pod, modular, eye-safe laser and a high performance pod. It is currently operated by Malaysia’s Su-30MKM jets, UAE Mirage 2000-9 jet, Saudi’s Tornado and Typhoon aircraft, as well as France’s Rafale and Mirage 2000D jets.
Pakistan Seeks Thales Damocles Targeting Pod For JF-17 Aircraft

 

[Tameem]

Its primary usage is for a pin point targeting avoiding collateral damage, something ideal for our War on Terror in Tribal Areas. If France really sincere fighting terror then it should provide this equipment to PAF as early as possible.

 

[HAIDER]

Its primary usage is for a pin point targeting avoiding collateral damage, something ideal for our War on Terror in Tribal Areas. If France really sincere fighting terror then it should provide this equipment to PAF as early as possible.

French has bad track record fulfilling commitments with Pakistan. Because, India has bad habits of adding anti Pakistani clues in their French defence companies agreements. In other words Indian made bound French companies, if they are selling any big ticket item to India , then can not sell any similar item to Pakistan. Obviously , its question of buying power.

 

[araz]

French has bad track record fulfilling commitments with Pakistan. Because, India has bad habits of adding anti Pakistani clues in their French defence companies agreements. In other words Indian made bound French companies, if they are selling any big ticket item to India , then can not sell any similar item to Pakistan. Obviously , its question of buying power.

The french have sold to anyone who can pay the money. The real question that needs answering is whether there is comparable product which has comparable parameters. ASEL POD seems like a decent bet. I wonder how much it will cost and what the integration cost would be. The french would be very expensive. If @bilal khan is to be believed

A

 

[RAMPAGE]

The french have sold to anyone who can pay the money. The real question that needs answering is whether there is comparable product which has comparable parameters. ASEL POD seems like a decent bet. I wonder how much it will cost and what the integration cost would be. The french would be very expensive. If @bilal khan is to be believed

A

Aselsan CATS has more advanced sensors. I wonder if a pod version is being made. @Quwa

Electro Optic Systems | Capabilities | ASELSAN

 

[araz]

Aselsan CATS has more advanced sensors. I wonder if a pod version is being made. @Quwa

Electro Optic Systems | Capabilities | ASELSAN

I think there is an Asel pod. From its specs on youtube it looked good but how it is in relation to Democles and whether there is a price difference between the two and integration time and the possibility of it. There are more questions than answers. It is very interesting as to why PAF went to the french in the first place given the RF400 debacle. Any ways it could irk our Chinese friends into com8ng up with something comparable.
A

 

[shah1398]

If PAF wants to get this POD then its the ideal time. Never was before and who knows when wud we get a best chance time like this bcz of two main factors.

1: We are getting most of the stuff from west and US in context of WOT but its actually building our capacity. Its evident from the fact that the BVR tech we got along block-52s had almost no role to play in WOT. Getting this POD in context of WOT wud not be a big problem. Just show Frenches money.
2: France can use this ploy of giving this POD to PAF in context of pressing India for Rafale deal to go ahead with.

France is even willing to supply Pakistan with upgraded Mirages of UAE at quite good price tag and the main reason behind this is not they love us but keeping some balance between PAF and IAF is substantial for France as it wud be selling weapons to both parties. Win win situation for France. Other than Govt, French companies like Dassault and SNECMA really value decades old association with Pakistan and wud never want to lose PAF from its list and hence are pressing French Govt not to sideline Pakistan totally.

Yes France as a country means business and is tilted more to a customer who shows more cash. There is no doubt about that.

 

[araz]

If PAF wants to get this POD then its the ideal time. Never was before and who knows when wud we get a best chance time like this bcz of two main factors.

1: We are getting most of the stuff from west and US in context of WOT but its actually building our capacity. Its evident from the fact that the BVR tech we got along block-52s had almost no role to play in WOT. Getting this POD in context of WOT wud not be a big problem. Just show Frenches money.
2: France can use this ploy of giving this POD to PAF in context of pressing India for Rafale deal to go ahead with.

France is even willing to supply Pakistan with upgraded Mirages of UAE at quite good price tag and the main reason behind this is not they love us but keeping some balance between PAF and IAF is substantial for France as it wud be selling weapons to both parties. Win win situation for France. Other than Govt, French companies like Dassault and SNECMA really value decades old association with Pakistan and wud never want to lose PAF from its list and hence are pressing French Govt not to sideline Pakistan totally.

Yes France as a country means business and is tilted more to a customer who shows more cash. There is no doubt about that.

I think what you said was true pre 1999. Post 2000 things have taken a turn for the worse. The suitable price you quoted for M2K5s of Armie de air was 60 million $ a plane for 59 planes. That too for a plane whose supply line and assembly line is shut since 2002. I think the breaddown of the RC400/MICA deal was the real litmus test for PAK/France relations. Once the trust element goes it can never be restored. I think the price quoted for full integration of Democles Pod is quite high,which is what makees me wonder why we have specifically quoted the product which is something which PAF officials have not done to my knowledge? I also think Aselsan pod aught to be tested againstDemocles to see real advantage of going for one or the other. The real question is who has a stake in the Aselpod and whether they would allow it or not.
I would love to hear from Bilal khan or Oscar on the issue.
A

 

[Abingdonboy]

Pakistan is assessing the Thales-made Damocles targeting pod to be mounted on its JF-17 aircraft for giving the fighter precision-targeting capability.

Pakistan Air Force deputy chief Muhammad Ashfaque Arain, currently in Paris to discuss the possibility of acquiring the Domacles pod was quoted by Reuters today as saying, “the Damocles is a battle- proven system and the other options are not. If we do not get the Damocles pod for example, then we will need to look for alternate options that may not be proven.”

The JF-17 is a China- Pakistan joint venture manufactured in Pakistan. Arain said that the JF-17 with the Pakistan Air Force had been performing well but its usefulness in current operations was limited because it lacks precision-targeting, a need which would be fulfilled if Thales sold it the Damocles pod.

Arain revealed that 16 JF-17s will be produced this year in Pakistan and a further 20 in 2017. The aircraft are equipped to carry air-to-air and air-to-ground missiles and bombs.

The Damocles is a 3rd generation targeting pod, modular, eye-safe laser and a high performance pod. It is currently operated by Malaysia’s Su-30MKM jets, UAE Mirage 2000-9 jet, Saudi’s Tornado and Typhoon aircraft, as well as France’s Rafale and Mirage 2000D jets.
Pakistan Seeks Thales Damocles Targeting Pod For JF-17 Aircraft

I thought the Chinese had developed their own LDP for the JF-17? It might not be "battle-proven" but I'm guessing it is cheap and available to the PAF at short notice.

 

[shah1398]

I think what you said was true pre 1999. Post 2000 things have taken a turn for the worse. The suitable price you quoted for M2K5s of Armie de air was 60 million $ a plane for 59 planes. That too for a plane whose supply line and assembly line is shut since 2002. I think the breaddown of the RC400/MICA deal was the real litmus test for PAK/France relations. Once the trust element goes it can never be restored. I think the price quoted for full integration of Democles Pod is quite high,which is what makees me wonder why we have specifically quoted the product which is something which PAF officials have not done to my knowledge? I also think Aselsan pod aught to be tested againstDemocles to see real advantage of going for one or the other. The real question is who has a stake in the Aselpod and whether they would allow it or not.
I would love to hear from Bilal khan or Oscar on the issue.
A

Agreed Sir. But our association with France till date is ON and wud be ON till last Mirage is flying. Even Thunder Avionics Suit got buckled under Indian pressure and our delay in finalizing the deal. I think PAF wants to renew the prospects of French Avionics suit bid for Thunder and this Damcole Pod might be a litmus test thrown by PAF to know whats the mood going on in France. Nevertheless I am confidently saying that France wud gladly sell us the UAE Mirages and that too after overhauling and upgrading them and that too on defer payment. All PAF has to do is to start the negotiations with them.

 

[araz]

Agreed Sir. But our association with France till date is ON and wud be ON till last Mirage is flying. Even Thunder Avionics Suit got buckled under Indian pressure and our delay in finalizing the deal. I think PAF wants to renew the prospects of French Avionics suit bid for Thunder and this Damcole Pod might be a litmus test thrown by PAF to know whats the mood going on in France. Nevertheless I am confidently saying that France wud gladly sell us the UAE Mirages and that too after overhauling and upgrading them and that too on defer payment. All PAF has to do is to start the negotiations with them.

The time for the M2ks has come and gone. I love the plane but it is not worth PAF spending the money on it. My personal opinion and feel free to disagree with it. PAF may well try but the problem remains as to how the French will not do a repeat of the same again.
What news if any have members got about other options available to PAF other than the Chinese one.
A

 

[shah1398]

The time for the M2ks has come and gone. I love the plane but it is not worth PAF spending the money on it. My personal opinion and feel free to disagree with it. PAF may well try but the problem remains as to how the French will not do a repeat of the same again.
What news if any have members got about other options available to PAF other than the Chinese one.
A

Ofcourse Sir thats the main BUT point. May be members familiar with issue and current on topic can throw some light.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

I thought Pakistanis considered everything the Chinese provided to be the best going by the statements in pdf?
But I think Pakistanis should try Chinese version first before trying others. Its cheap and may prove to be good.

 

[salarsikander]

Chinese provided to be the best going by the statements in pdf?

Hi,

There is the difference between the opinion of defense enthusiasts and that of actually making deals.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Hi,

There is the difference between the opinion of defense enthusiasts and that of actually making deals.

I know. I am just trolling those defence enthusiast

The bottom line is China as well as Pakistan would rush to fill up their aircrafts with western sensors and suite if given an chance. And they are hampered by the non availability of it