Pakistan Reaches Out for Russian Arms

[Neo]

Trust me, India is way above everyone including the chinese when it comes to the Russians. The relationship have been on mutual respect, that is not something Pakistan have had with US

Don't be naive, alliances are based on national interests rather than mutual respect. China and India are equally important to Russia.

And I can see that you dont know much about India-Russian Ties, as well as China-Russian Border disputes. Russia doesnt see India as future threat, while sees China that way.

You obviously don't have a clue about real politik. Plaese explain why China has almost unlimited access to Russian weapons and technology if she imposes a threat to Russia?

 

[fatman17]

like one of my colleague said "Good Luck". Euphoria can be mis-leading at times. any we wish india well.

 

[josh21x]

Don't be naive, alliances are based on national interests rather than mutual respect. China and India are equally important to Russia.

Taking it out of context. Funny thing is, it is in Russia's national interest(no threat, lot of money) to deal with India in a more comprehensive manner than China. Let the SCO not fade your vision. That is just short term strategy.

You obviously don't have a clue about real politik. Plaese explain why China has almost unlimited access to Russian weapons and technology if she imposes a threat to Russia?

I have more than you for sure. What is this state of the art Russian weapons, the Chinese have recieved from Russians. Read about 1970 Chinese and Russia stand off. As well as their contiuned border disputes. Siberia. Forget the nixon visit. When it comes to weapons understand the difference between strategic battlefield changing weapon to just tactical weapon.

While I can name some from India.

 

[josh21x]

like one of my colleague said "Good Luck". Euphoria can be mis-leading at times. any we wish india well.

We are Euphoric. really? I think not. We are euphoric about our success, not our American Friends or Russian Friends.
I think we have a lot work to do.
But as Pakistani's you may wish to see, India being over enthusiasitc and euphoric..and not seeing the evil amerikki intentions...lol...and therefore falling harder than Pakistan has...
Well I cant blame you, but it is utterly naive in your part to believe that other people will do exactly what you did(ie get used) and they cant do a better job than you.

Can you for one second believe, that your present situation is not because of America, but because of your inept leaders and their raping of your democratic systems. Its not America fault that you got to this point, but rather your leaders fault.

 

[Neo]

Taking it out of context. Funny thing is, it is in Russia's national interest(no threat, lot of money) to deal with India in a more comprehensive manner than China. Let the SCO not fade your vision. That is just short term strategy.

There are no future guarantees for any alliance. Growing Indo-US ties can have a positive impact on Siono-Rus relationship. SCO is no threat, its will take decades to mature and become a military bloc.

I have more than you for sure. What is this state of the art Russian weapons, the Chinese have recieved from Russians. Read about 1970 Chinese and Russia stand off. As well as their contiuned border disputes. Siberia. Forget the nixon visit. When it comes to weapons understand the difference between strategic battlefield changing weapon to just tactical weapon.

While I can name some from India.

It only shows how fast the winds change. Again no future guarantees for alliances, they're made or broken to serve national interests.
Unlike India, Russian modern doctrine isn't based on countering neighbors with hostility, they're offering technical support and fuel to all major neighboring economies including China, South Korea and Japan.

 

[fatman17]

i have not blamed the americans for our prediciment, however lets see what
inept leadership has given us...
if 7.5 avg economic growth from a so-called failed state is inept then so be it.
if highest FX reserves (US 16b) in the history of the so-called failed state, inept then so be it.
if record export receipts (US 20b) performance from a so-called failed state, inept then so be it.
if nuclear assets belonging to a so-called failed state, inept then so be it.
like india we need to work harder on some issues.
we live in a tough neighbourhood (read history) but we will get out of it. democratic systems will get better.
i am a realist not naive.

 

[josh21x]

There are no future guarantees for any alliance. Growing Indo-US ties can have a positive impact on Siono-Rus relationship. SCO is no threat, its will take decades to mature and become a military bloc.

Who gets the maximum number of reactor sales from Indo-US nuke deal, Russia and France.

It only shows how fast the winds change. Again no future guarantees for alliances, they're made or broken to serve national interests.
Unlike India, Russian modern doctrine isn't based on countering neighbors with hostility, they're offering technical support and fuel to all major neighboring economies including China, South Korea and Japan

Actually it is. Just that Russia is now bothered about the Western Europe, wait till she sets her eyes to the east. China has always been a threat unless they back up from their claims.
Technical supports of out-going russian tech. While India is a partner in most of their future projects.

The whole argument of all yours and your comptraiet posts where who India will get foxed by the US and forget its true ally Russia, who will then feel sad and fall into Pakistani Lap.

Moscow- Delhi ties goes far beyond your clearly amateur ramble.

How did India buy the Viraat(Ex-Hermes), Jaguars, Mirages, Bofors, Leander Frigates etc. Why didnt the Russians offer support to Pakistan then?
According to your wonderful theory, what happens if India goes Euro for MMRCA.
Do you know Russian Captains, Lt, of the Afghan war, are now Generals and decision makers. They will not forget what Pakistan did to them along with the US?
Who is the biggest profitteer of the Indo-US Nuclear Deal? Answer: France and Russia.
Do you know India is the partner of Russia with PAK-FA, a far bigger contract than MMRCA.
Do you know Russians alone are selling us nearly 3.5 billion dollars worth of equipments yearly.
Indian Defence Market for the next 5 years (read again 5 years)is valued at 70 billion dollars, Can pakistan match that. Russia is India's Best Friend Numero-Uno, India's no.1 Arms supplier. Russia is going to squander that away, oh puhleese.
How do you think India gets Uranium for its reactors?
India buys more than China for pete's sake, even China doesnt have access to what India has from Russia, Indias has far more access to the best russian tech.
I quote a Russian Diplomat "Moscow wont hear anything remotely anti-India".
Do you think Russians are obivilious to that fact, current Indian Airforce fleet is 75% Russain, and therefore any sane country will make it 50% or less. And it is also their good interest, that India gets more western tech, which will then trinkle down to the PAK-FA. Imagine Russians get info on Shornet and the likes.
Do you know India is getting strategic weapons such as Akula-2 SSN, Gorshkov, MiG-29K, Just ordered 3 more Kirvak 3 vessels.
India has a big Economy, world recognition and doesnt pose any threat to Russia, While China does.
Last not least, you grossly under-estimate Indian Diplomats and their Diplomatic skills, India's internal factors and its zeal for Independent forigen policy. You dont run coalition in India by being the lapdog of Soviet Union or USA.
Why wasnt India a lapdog of the Soviet Union?
And you think Pakistan can replace India in the slightest.

PS: Please dont bring the Iran vote, China and Russia, US voted against Iran along with India.

 

[josh21x]

Yet Beijing is trying. It is even trying to put into Moscow's ears a few good words about Pakistan, which is getting increasingly estranged from the US over the fight against terror. Beijing recently tried to gift Russian-made aero-engines to Islamabad. Islamabad asked for spares for a few Mi-17 helicopters it had acquired second-hand from Central Asian countries; and Pakistan Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz recently told a Russian newspaper that Russia, being a world power, should avoid linking its relations with just one country (India) over other states.

While Indians, like the 'samajhdar Lalitaji' of the Surf commercial, have been extremely choosy customers in the Russian military supermarket, the Chinese have been behaving like cash-rich yuppies buying up everything that fancies them. While India bargained hard and got many special and unique Russian, Indian, French and Israeli features in the Sukhoi-30MKI and the MiG-29K, the Chinese bought the already available Sukhoi-30MK planes in bulk. Thus the Russians merely had to switch on an already existing assembly line to meet the Chinese order; on the contrary, to meet the Indian requirements, they had to shop all over Eurasia, and integrate the often-mutually incompatible components into unique air-weapon platforms.

As Konstantin Makiyenko, deputy director of the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies, pointed out, "Both China and India are our principal strategic partners." The difference is that Indian purchases stress quality rather than quantity. "China has opted for serially-made, tried-and-tested and relatively unsophisticated systems. India buys armaments which Russia strains its technological capability to develop and manufacture."

Russian experts discount any possibility of Russia having to make a strategic choice between China and India. At the political level, Moscow is trying hard for a trilateral understanding with Beijing and Delhi, though Delhi has shown no interest in developing it to the strategic level. Thus, Russia has had no quarrels with India extending its strategic reach into Central Asia, with its increasing presence in Afghanistan and even an IAF MiG-29 base in Tajikistan which has worried both China and Pakistan. At the same time, Moscow has been asking the US to vacate the air bases in the region, which it occupied during the war in Afghanistan.

Thus, despite all the Sino-Russian sabre-rattling against the west, Russian experts believe that India has little to worry. As Alexander Khramchikhin, head of research at the Institute of Political and Military Analysis, put it recently, "India is an ideal ally, but China is the main opponent because it has real reasons for external expansion." Even the Indo-US rapprochement, in Moscow's view, should concern Beijing more than itself. Moscow's only concern is about the Americans trying to snatch away a few of India's defence purchase contracts.

Indian diplomats agree. "India is the only country with which Russia has not had any problems throughout its history. Similarly, Russia is the only big power with which India has never had a problem," said Dr A.V.S. Ramesh Chandra, counsellor in the Indian embassy in Moscow. "The relationship between the two is not factored on any one or two aspects." So much so that when India protested against China gifting a couple of Russia-supplied aero-engines to Pakistan, Moscow immediately recalled the engines

Russian officials concur. Even at the height of the Cold War with the west, Moscow was constrained to keep nearly half its army on its China border, and the distrust has not yet melted away. Russia is concerned about the growing Chinese migration into its underpopulated, snow-covered but resource-rich east. With no Stalin to force-populate the region with Russians, Moscow wonders whether China would one day claim its east, along with Vladivostok, Russia's safest outlet to the seas. With his eyes trained on the west and Central Asia, is Putin ignoring the Russian bear's not-so-soft eastern back?

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[josh21x]

India and Russia discuss pace of implementation of deals

Moscow, Sept 11: India and Russia have discussed the pace of implementation of agreements reached between Moscow and New Delhi during President Vladimir Putin's India visit in January.

The discussions took place during a lunch hosted by Deputy Foreign Minister Alexander Losyukov for the outgoing Indian Ambassador Kanwal Sibal, who is leaving next week.

The two also discussed bilateral issues and Indo-Russian interaction on the global scene and expressed satisfaction at the substantial advancement of bilateral multi-plane and strategic partnership between the Russian federation and India in the recent years, a Foreign Ministry release said here.

Sibal, a seasoned Indian diplomat and a former Foreign Secretary, was appointed India's Ambassador in 2004 by the Congress-led UPA government to carry forward the strategic partnership with Russia at the time of visible tilt in New Delhi towards mending fences with Washington.

Senior diplomat Prabhat Shukla, a 1974 batch IFS officer, will take over the Indian mission in Moscow later this month when the country would be going through two election campaigns to elect the Parliament and a new President in December and next March.

:: Bharat-Rakshak.com - Indian Military News Headlines ::

 

[josh21x]

i have not blamed the americans for our prediciment, however lets see what
inept leadership has given us...
if 7.5 avg economic growth from a so-called failed state is inept then so be it.
if highest FX reserves (US 16b) in the history of the so-called failed state, inept then so be it.
if record export receipts (US 20b) performance from a so-called failed state, inept then so be it.
if nuclear assets belonging to a so-called failed state, inept then so be it.
like india we need to work harder on some issues.
we live in a tough neighbourhood (read history) but we will get out of it. democratic systems will get better.
i am a realist not naive.

I wasnt talking about Musharraf, I am his supporter. You guys need him more than anything. Like to backtrack 5 years ago. Has Pakistan reached, where it was supposed to have reached?
SOuth Koreans came and learned economics from you, and where are they and where are you.

 

[fatman17]

good for you josh21x
we r not trying to match what india does - overkill.
we buy what we need and use it well.

 

[ied_blast]

i dont know y u guys r very keen in indo-usa, pak-russ senario.
it will be disastarous for pakistan which needs load of investment....& russia
is not the answer. infact russia itself is opening its economy for usa.

 

[ied_blast]

good for you josh21x
we r not trying to match what india does - overkill.
we buy what we need and use it well.

no mate there is a differance between buying and receiving.

 

[IceCold]

no mate there is a differance between buying and receiving.

And what did we receive that we did not paid for. If you are talking about the f-16s they were old and outdated and to bring them up to the block52 standard the cost of the MLU will be paid by pakistan. The new F-16s C/D type that we will get, we are paying for them, though the payment methods are different but that does not mean we are getting it for free or under some humanitarian aid from the US.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi ice-blast,

The weapon does not know if it has been paid for in coin or is stolen or a charity. Its only job is to kill and that too, without prejudice of race, color, creed or gender.

Pakistan's importance will have a multiplier effect once the gateway to russian alliance is opened up and the war in afghanistan ends. There will be nations lined up to invest in pakistan andseek its resources. So that is not the issue. The issue is that would america would let go of pakistan at that stage.

The russian bear has suddenly woken up from its hybernation----bear flights close to Guam---then around finland uk and norway. Russia is ready to make a statement. The beast is marking its domain one more time and leaving its scent behind.