Pakistan raises issue of F-16 sale with visiting US commander

[New Resolve]

Just get the J-16 and be done with it.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

1. Chinese copies of Russian aircraft actually Chinese, they have been modified, and are built from scratch using Chinese parts.

Pakistan's has no experience maintaining Russian aircraft.
All PAF can hope for is their maintenance is similar to Chinese aircraft, which it is unlikely, because Su are very different from the Migs, Chinese copied,and very very different from the Migs Chinese sold to Pakistan.

2. Money is the most important factor here, and PAF does not have much. As I said, before, it took PAF 3 years , before it had enough funds available to contemplate these 8 F-16s.

The fact is PAF simply does not have enough funds to simultaneously acquire, two separate lines of aircrafts, unless they are being subsidized by the seller, one of the main reason J10 B were cancelled , despite a deal being signed in 2006 itself.

3. Only the initial cost acquiring Russian and Chinese aircraft is low, they are maintenance intensive machines, who's life cycle costs far exceeds, those of Western aircrafts.

4. Yes PAF wants to replace 190 aircrafts by 2020, but it simply does not have the money to buy so many planes, Its budget is little more than $1.5 Billion a year, for operating it entire air force.

Even if entire budget is spent on acquisition over next 4 years(something that is never possible). Pakistan can not afford even 2 squadrons of Russian aircraft, with all its bells and whistles and maintenance.

5. Su 35 was never a part of MMRCA, it is a heavy air dominance fighter with limited multi role capabilities.



PAF can not even imagine spending that amount of money on aircraft acquisition, which IAF is about too.
So yeah, it takes time to extract the best deal possible, with the amount of money, IAF is spending.



Travelling from Russia, through entire breadth China and then entire length of Pakistan by road.
Somehow its not realistic or economical.

Things were different, when it was Soviet union. They wanted access to warm waters, because their whole naval fleet use to get bottled up by Arctic ice or black sea, due to Turkish controlled Bosphorus straits.

Hey kid you just made my day... China copies are Chinese... LOL
This is the same as what your Prime Minister says Made in India means it is Indian...

Go back to the Indian Map that you have posted earlier and try to get the shortest possible route. You have to draw a line North to South not West to East.

Go take an admission in one of the schools that teach geography. Turkey left USSR alone in yester years because they did not pose any threat but today Turkey and Russia are more hostile towards each other.

 

[Cool_Soldier]

Su 35 is not the option, that we just wishing and thinking to opt.
After green signal from Moscow, PAF and govt official has mentioned it as an option.So, There no way of Indian multi billion market.
Russia now deals in a same way as USA deals keeping both sides in hand.
PAKISTAN and INDIA both are buyer of high tech item from USA.

Now, both will be buyer of high tech equipment from Russia too.

Just wait a little more, answer will be there automatically.

Just get the J-16 and be done with it.

Third Party sale issue due to engine is involved, I think so.

Why not go for latest type of SU series, as J 16 is modified form of SU 27 or SU 30.

 

[帅的一匹]

USA ask Pakistan to pay full price is a indirectly way to turn down the deal. Even a three years old kid can know the meaning behind it.

 

[aziqbal]

Cancelling the 36 units after the earthquake was a big mistake it did not make any difference to the funds for the victims as the deal was covered by foreign military aid anyway

And you can never build a country by cutting military budget

They put the order on hold for 11 years now deal has changed and now Pakistan wants 36 units

They had from 2001 till 2016 that's 15 years to buy up as many F16 as they liked only now Pakistan government woke up and said "chalo lets get more " well it's too late now

This is a failure of Pakistan government not US policy

Who told them to order 18 then 8 and now 10

If you want it buy 36 don't try and trickle them out for free over 15 years situations change

 

[jhungary]

Read my post #32. Why would we choose to get more sales for the F-16? When the F-35 is selling like hotcakes? @gambit and @jhungary may I get your inputs here? Again I am asking, "WHICH MUCH BETTER OPTIONS DO YOU HAVE?" as @Dalit put it aside from Chinese birds?

Don't want to get into this.........

You should have noticed that the man said Pakistan won't be dictated by an American, yet he tried to dictate the term with Russia. That should be your cue to leave this discussion.

 

[nang2]

I don't understand why they call it "war on terror" which is actually a local insurgency of some sorts

A fancy name put on a project. For example, war on drug, war on cancer, etc. Pretty much every country likes to do this thing, US particular.

 

[Dalit]

Don't want to get into this.........

You should have noticed that the man said Pakistan won't be dictated by an American, yet he tried to dictate the term with Russia. That should be your cue to leave this discussion.

Let's not over complicate things. It's very simple, really. It isn't rocket science.

- The American administration came up with the deal for subsidized F-16s.

- They changed the initial deal after the congress didn't approve.

- Pakistan would do better by spending 700 million dollars elsewhere. That's my personal opinion..

As for the alternatives. Everyone can count them on one hand. If not the Russians, certainly the Chinese. If not the Chinese, last option is upgrading the JF-17.

End of discussion.

 

[PAFMAN]

I Don't know how to react here. Cry or laugh.
F16 ...... F16 ...... F16 ........F16 ...... F16

 

[leftfordead]

The defense minister of Pakistan has already said that this deal's over and that they won't pay the entire thing out of their pocket.

Its time that Pakistan quit bringing this issue up and go sign a contract with someone else. You have plenty of cash in your savings account. A two-three billion can be given to acquire a new, higher end platform.

how many EFT's we can buy with 2-3 billion $ as you claim that Pakistan can spare for New platforms ?
please give a detail answer , with Setting up new Facility , Over-hauling , Spare Parts, Pods , Weapons , Training etc. .

 

[monitor]

Just Add F-16 in place of football .

 

[haviZsultan]

After more than $100 billion in losses to the national economy (which is an old figure and may have multiplied) and 60000 + dead in the war on terror we still get ill-treatment from the US. We have to ask ourselves if aligning with the US was in any way beneficial to us at all. None of Pakistan's basic problems have been solved. In fact fanaticism has risen to great magnitude. I am not saying we should not kill Taliban LEJ ISIS or Al Qaeda. We should do so on our own terms not as slaves of the US.

I think being with US gives the militant groups moral sympathy and the excuse to keep killing innocents. If US is becoming more arrogant I think we need to think about our own path too. Not suppliying subsidized F16's is a problem and works against our efforts against terrorism. US led us to support terrorism in the 80's. Now is trying to destroy it. US has always bullied us.

 

[jhungary]

Let's not over complicate things. It's very simple, really. It isn't rocket science.

- The American administration came up with the deal for subsidized F-16s.

- They changed the initial deal after the congress didn't approve.

- Pakistan would do better by spending 700 million dollars elsewhere. That's my personal opinion..

As for the alternatives. Everyone can count them on one hand. If not the Russians, certainly the Chinese. If not the Chinese, last option is upgrading the JF-17.

End of discussion.

PLEASE.........Do not EVER quote me again

There were NEVER a discussion, my post wasn't even address to you, do feel free to believe whatever you want the Chinese and Russia to be. Just don't EVER quote me again,

 

[Dalit]

PLEASE.........Do not EVER quote me again

There were NEVER a discussion, my post wasn't even address to you, do feel free to believe whatever you want the Chinese and Russia to be. Just don't EVER quote me again,

LOL everyone has just lost their mind LOL

After more than $100 billion in losses to the national economy (which is an old figure and may have multiplied) and 60000 + dead in the war on terror we still get ill-treatment from the US. We have to ask ourselves if aligning with the US was in any way beneficial to us at all. None of Pakistan's basic problems have been solved. In fact fanaticism has risen to great magnitude. I am not saying we should not kill Taliban LEJ ISIS or Al Qaeda. We should do so on our own terms not as slaves of the US.

I think being with US gives the militant groups moral sympathy and the excuse to keep killing innocents. If US is becoming more arrogant I think we need to think about our own path too. Not suppliying subsidized F16's is a problem and works against our efforts against terrorism. US led us to support terrorism in the 80's. Now is trying to destroy it. US has always bullied us.

It is their loss. They always have a wish list for Pakistan. They know it is their loss, but I think this is a blessing in disguise. We need to move away from American influence. It is harmful and toxic.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

how many EFT's we can buy with 2-3 billion $ as you claim that Pakistan can spare for New platforms ?
please give a detail answer , with Setting up new Facility , Over-hauling , Spare Parts, Pods , Weapons , Training etc. .

It depends on how many PAF wants...Here is a scenario...
110 EFT cost approximately 10 billion USD.

PAF has a delivery date starting 24 months from today for the next 7 years , the cost would come down to 1.5 billion per year. Now if this is to be increased by procuring more stuff from the same country selling the EFT like Naval equipment. The total cost of 15-20 billion USD can increase the time of acquiring these over 20 years bringing the per annum cost to even lower.