Pakistan possesses various ICBMs which have a range of 9000+ kilometres

[CorporateAffairs]

Awesome Pak

Congrats to all my Pak brothers

rougue states trying to use and throw you aganist us, will now start having sleepless nights

 

[MilSpec]

Why do you think they were a game changer?

As an Indian, you will always say that India was victorious in 1965 & 1971 war and had air superiority over PAF too.

One of these statements needs to be incorrect for you to be correct, either F-86 & F-104 Starfighters were not game changers or India lost the wars or at least did not have air superiority in those wars.

Which one do you choose?

Well your comprehension skills are not my problem. With 2:1 numerical advantage in mid 60's pakistan needed a potent, proven dogfighter, f86 gave you technolgical edge over whatever india had back then.

With india's MIG 21 in the 70's mach2 fighter capability was matched by starfighter, despite the results...

F16's given to pakistan were the only potent fighters to stand up to mirages and fulcrums of IAF.

To this date the most capable platform in your arsenal is Blk52 with AIM 120C which can finally counter the BVR threats of IAF.

just because germans had technological edge didn't mean they won the world war, get it!

Perhaps not an ICBM...but a nuke...any nuke would have !

true you would have nuked east pakistan...

 

[King Solomon]

Perhaps not an ICBM...but a nuke...any nuke would have !

I seriously doubt. For one thing, if you had nuke, it is more logical to assume that India would have nukes too. Now, in december 1971, you had the choice to:

- Grant independence to east pakistan and surrender to India.

- Nuke india and risk annihilation of west pakistan as well.

Which one would you chose?

I have studied the situation and India's plan was perfect. The most perfect. THough it received much help from USSR.

 

[Android]

Interesting. Explain how having ICBM could have made you win 1971 war?

they would have threaten ussr to prevent them from interfering
or threaten usa or china to come to their aid

 

[monitor]

Well the news is based on a unknown newspaper . they may hype the issue to get attention .so i am not getting excited but do wish Pakistan achieved such capability soon . best of luck

 

[user1]

Well your comprehension skills are not my problem. With 2:1 numerical advantage in mid 60's pakistan needed a potent, proven dogfighter, f86 gave you technolgical edge over whatever india had back then.

With india's MIG 21 in the 70's mach2 fighter capability was matched by starfighter, despite the results...

F16's given to pakistan were the only potent fighters to stand up to mirages and fulcrums of IAF.

To this date the most capable platform in your arsenal is Blk52 with AIM 120C which can finally counter the BVR threats of IAF.

just because germans had technological edge didn't mean they won the world war, get it!

You are saying that Pakistan had technological edge (due to US Assistance) in 1965 - 1971 but it still didn't win just like Germans had technology and they couldn't win. So, if Pakistan couldn't win then how could it be a game changing technology?

The real game changers are Nuclear and Missile technology; it was every intention of US to stop Pakistan in it's tracks to develop any of these and because, being an Indian you will say that Pakistan could not have developed those without China's help then, it turns out to be China which has provided us the game changers not US.

Which one do you want to accept now?

Pakistan indigenously developed it's Nuclear/Missile technology
or
US helped Pakistan
or
China helped Pakistan.

 

[Armstrong]

I seriously doubt. For one thing, if you had nuke, it is more logical to assume that India would have nukes too. Now, in december 1971, you had the choice to:

- Grant independence to east pakistan and surrender to India.

- Nuke india and risk annihilation of west pakistan as well.

Which one would you chose?

I have studied the situation and India's plan was perfect. The most perfect. THough it received much help from USSR.

Thats exactly how the 'Nuclear Deterrence' works ! In '71 India would have had the choice to :

- Cross into East-Pakistan and fight a Pakistani Army trying to quell popular uprising and armed resistance, knowing full well that in such a scenario, Pakistan's nuclear threshold wouldn't be the same as otherwise.

- Risk Pakistan using tactical nukes if that threshold is breached i.e Pakistan Army is loosing significant land in the East or that the Pakistani pre emptive offensive in the West makes use of tactical nukes.

- Or when worst comes to worst, risks Pakistan nuking one of their cities, when Dhaka is about to fall ? In such an instance whether Pakistan is bluffing or not...is going to be massively important !

Think of the Cuban missile crisis and how even the Soviet Union backed down when Kennedy threatened Nuclear retaliation if the nukes reached Cuba ! Even the Soviets had to consider the ever so integral question 'What if they're not bluffing ?'

So my friend this is exactly how the Nuclear Deterrence works. A more recent case in point could be North Korea or even Iran...both of them with a much bigger nuisance value then either Libya or Syria and yet the US doesn't start any military overtures against either because 'a nuke is involved' ! So I do think that if Pakistan had a nuke in '71...India-Pakistan would have fought a small border skirmish on the East or had a Military stand-off because of Indian support for the Mukhti Bahini and Pakistan's military crack-down but never an all out war like the one we had ! Heck we probably wouldn't have clashed in '65 had either of us 'a nuke' - Pakistan wouldn't have initiated Operation Gibraltor and India wouldn't have crossed over the International Border in response !

 

[MilSpec]

You are saying that Pakistan had technological edge (due to US Assistance) in 1965 - 1971 but it still didn't win just like Germans had technology and they couldn't win. So, if Pakistan couldn't win then how could it be a game changing technology?

The real game changers are Nuclear and Missile technology; it was every intention of US to stop Pakistan in it's tracks to develop any of these and because, being an Indian you will say that Pakistan could not have developed those without China's help then, it turns out to be China which has provided us the game changers not US.

Which one do you want to accept now?

Pakistan indigenously developed it's Nuclear/Missile technology
or
US helped Pakistan
or
China helped Pakistan.

these were "game changers" because they gave you parity with India which you didn't have .... hope that makes it clear...

bottom line:
Pakistan's missile program did receive help from china and NK, that doesn't discount any of pak's indigenous effort.
Pakistan's missile program has had immense success and the capability they possess now places their scientist and engineers among world's best.

USA has aided pakistan with weapon system which have been back bone of minimal credible deterrence against India.

Apart from that, if you insist that china's role has been more crucial than that of US, then it is your opinion, but me (and your own military) differ in that. If that was the case, pakistan would start putting its eggs in chinese basket, wouldn't they.

 

[lightoftruth]

a popularity seeker source its like put pakistan some icbm and voila !! u got multiple views

 

[SQ8]

these were "game changers" because they gave you parity with India which you didn't have .... hope that makes it clear...

bottom line:
Pakistan's missile program did receive help from china and NK, that doesn't discount any of pak's indigenous effort.
Pakistan's missile program has had immense success and the capability they possess now places their scientist and engineers among world's best.

USA has aided pakistan with weapon system which have been back bone of minimal credible deterrence against India.

Apart from that, if you insist that china's role has been more crucial than that of US, then it is your opinion, but me (and your own military) differ in that. If that was the case, pakistan would start putting its eggs in chinese basket, wouldn't they.

I think the support has been equal..
Its never been a case of cake batter from there and icing from there.
Its been a mix of both to make the whole cake.

The initial guidance systems were based of an amalgamation of Chinese and European designs..
Current ones have no input whatsoever.
The US's input was greatest with that tomahawk.. and some part of the harpoon.
Since they both provided a learning example of where to start from and what to include.

The Shaheen series for eg.. was initially developed by people who were nuclear scientists by profession!...who literally had to pick up a book on basic rocketeering and begin reading about it.
And as much as the crap about M-11's being the Shaheen posted.. there was very little input from the M-11 into the Shaheen apart from the usual hands on example to look at.
Ideas from it.. and other sources(literature, sourced plans..etc).. were used into the Shaheen series.

The NK hand has been mostly just purchase and deploy...nobody likes the liquid fuelled variety that much.
and the Nodongs were only needed as a quick fix to the need for a deployment system.

 

[Viper0011.]

I seriously doubt. For one thing, if you had nuke, it is more logical to assume that India would have nukes too. Now, in december 1971, you had the choice to:

- Grant independence to east pakistan and surrender to India.

- Nuke india and risk annihilation of west pakistan as well.

Which one would you chose?

I have studied the situation and India's plan was perfect. The most perfect. THough it received much help from USSR.

Well my fried, not sure where you've done your 'studies' at. But you need to find a better school. if there were nukes in 1971.....there wouldn't be a war!!! US strategy & think tanks have already concluded that and other military institutions have also done that.
The whole 'annihilation of Pak' deal sounds a line from the movies. Just so you know. The worst scenario is MAD all the way. There is no such thing as one get annihilated and the other looses just one city. I PRAY TO GOD things NEVER get to this point and that India and Pak become like European union and friends....helping around 1.5 billion people get better health, education and a prosperous future (majority of these 1.5 billion people are poor btw)

 

[IceCold]

It's your ignorance that you live in lala land where big bad indian are out for blood of pakistanis. You did not have nuke capability and we still were a a bigger power, Never did once we even think of invading or attacking pakistan. It is not you nukes that have stabilized the region, but the responsibility of well being of 1/6th of world population that ensures our hands are tied down despite the nuisance value of your tactics.

I agree with you that the region should maintain peace despite differences and even occasional flare ups, too much is at stake here.

It is high time you lay off from your moral high horse. Your post makes me laugh, really without any pun intended. So India does not attack us out of it sheer good will and well being of 1/6th of world population. I just cant stop laughing. You made by day thanks.

reality check, before you guys bring your smack talk against US, remember that they are barely 10mins away from your border. As far as the big devastation you are talking about, please zip it, they have been bombing you at will, and your military cannot do jack.

My military can or cannot do anything is something we don't need any Indian lecturing us, so shut up. I am not interested in your gibberish about what my military can or cannot do.

 

[MilSpec]

I think the support has been equal..
Its never been a case of cake batter from there and icing from there.
Its been a mix of both to make the whole cake.

The initial guidance systems were based of an amalgamation of Chinese and European designs..
Current ones have no input whatsoever.
The US's input was greatest with that tomahawk.. and some part of the harpoon.
Since they both provided a learning example of where to start from and what to include.

The Shaheen series for eg.. was initially developed by people who were nuclear scientists by profession!...who literally had to pick up a book on basic rocketeering and begin reading about it.
And as much as the crap about M-11's being the Shaheen posted.. there was very little input from the M-11 into the Shaheen apart from the usual hands on example to look at.
Ideas from it.. and other sources(literature, sourced plans..etc).. were used into the Shaheen series.

The NK hand has been mostly just purchase and deploy...nobody likes the liquid fuelled variety that much.
and the Nodongs were only needed as a quick fix to the need for a deployment system.

sir,
The previous member whom I was responding to, like many others here on the forum are very quick to discount America's support to pakistan to ensure there is stability in the region.

To ensure regional stability, it is necessary that pakistan's military must be strong enough to thwart any threat from India. Same is for India vis-a-vis china. As many members here a quite vocal about sending ICBM's to the big apple, my view is american friendship has longterm benefits and but depending on america has short term losses, but enmity purely stupid. The reason for chiniese hardware being purchased by pakistan is more financial than strategic, If pakistan could easily afford f18's or f15's would they still be buying JF's and j10's, i highly doubt it, but others may disagree. In the end your government needs to do ensure all is well" between islamabad and Wn DC

 

[MilSpec]

It is high time you lay off from your moral high horse. Your post makes me laugh, really without any pun intended. So India does not attack us out of it sheer good will and well being of 1/6th of world population. I just cant stop laughing. You made by day thanks.



My military can or cannot do anything is something we don't need any Indian lecturing us, so shut up. I am not interested in your gibberish about what my military can or cannot do.

I am glad you find simple facts amusing, let me spell it out, we never invaded pakistan despite of what is portrayed here and thats the fact... simple

your military is your concern, but when people claim about devastation w.r.t the US military especially in current scenario when they are sitting in your backyard, it just sounds retarded.

 

[IceCold]

I am glad you find simple facts amusing, let me spell it out, we never invaded pakistan despite of what is portrayed here and thats the fact... simple

your military is your concern, but when people claim about devastation w.r.t the US military especially in current scenario when they are sitting in your backyard, it just sounds retarded.

Simple facts so you say but is that really what Indians think about themselves, the holier then thou attitude is what i find amusing.
Funny how you took out one word from the entire post, twist it around and produced a meaning of its own.
The only things you Indians can think of to support your straw man's argument is hey look they are sitting in your back ground, look they strike you at will.
Has it ever occurred to your pea sized brain that stopping the US attack has more to with the democratic government then the military. Go a few pages back and read my post i said before acquiring an ICBM, we need to change many things otherwise the whole effort would be futile and the top of that list was changing this inept government. I mentioned other reasons, one of which was better understanding with India, but you choose to ignore that. So who is the retard here, I'll leave that for the readers to decide.
Now if you have comprehension problems, i cant help you with that but stop posting nonsense for the sake of it.