Pakistan ordered AKINCI UCAV. Pakistan will be one of the first users of the AKINCI system

[PanzerKiel]

@PanzerKiel Sir is this viable? If yes, then can you kindly share the pros and cons of this? Also, in case you feel discouraged to post during these times, I would like to state that the knowledge that you provide on this forum is highly valuable to many of us so thank you so much for that and please never stop sharing your knowledge with us.

Its costly of course, but its worth it afterall. If you talk of India, apart from the land borders, it has a very long sea flank as well. If our marines develop an offensive capability, Indians will be forced to raise or deploy major chunk of their forces for protection of their coasts.

However, such operations come with their own set of complex problems.

An amphibious assault against a defended shore is perhaps the most difficult of all military operations, much harder than even a paratroop operation. It requires absolute local sea supremacy and an undisputed air superiority. The Allied landing of five divisions on the Normandy coast in 1944 involved there and a half years of preparation and a host of other operations ranging from Dieppe to Anzio for experience.

A forced landing is not something to be taken lightly. The only country today in a position to make such landings is the US, which maintains an approx 200k Marine Corps along with more than 70 large specialized landing ships. To cover its landings, the U.S. Marine Corps uses fighter cover from its own fighter squadrons operating off its massive assault helicopter carriers (including 40,000 ton ships), and fighter and gunfire support from the huge U.S. Navy armadas. A landing could be covered by atleast three giant aircraft carriers with 180 combat aircraft, 50 anti- submarine warfare aircraft, and upto 70 other specialized aircraft including tankers, ECM, and early warning planes. Some 30 frigates, destroyers, and cruisers would support such a force.

 

[Zarvan]

Its costly of course, but its worth it afterall. If you talk of India, apart from the land borders, it has a very long sea flank as well. If our marines develop an offensive capability, Indians will be forced to raise or deploy major chunk of their forces for protection of their coasts.

However, such operations come with their own set of complex problems.

An amphibious assault against a defended shore is perhaps the most difficult of all military operations, much harder than even a paratroop operation. It requires absolute local sea supremacy and an undisputed air superiority. The Allied landing of five divisions on the Normandy coast in 1944 involved there and a half years of preparation and a host of other operations ranging from Dieppe to Anzio for experience.

A forced landing is not something to be taken lightly. The only country today in a position to make such landings is the US, which maintains an approx 200k Marine Corps along with more than 70 large specialized landing ships. To cover its landings, the U.S. Marine Corps uses fighter cover from its own fighter squadrons operating off its massive assault helicopter carriers (including 40,000 ton ships), and fighter and gunfire support from the huge U.S. Navy armadas. A landing could be covered by atleast three giant aircraft carriers with 180 combat aircraft, 50 anti- submarine warfare aircraft, and upto 70 other specialized aircraft including tankers, ECM, and early warning planes. Some 30 frigates, destroyers, and cruisers would support such a force.

Sir what about Aksungur ? The way we are going I am pretty sure we would get that beast also.

 

[Sayfullah]

Its costly of course, but its worth it afterall. If you talk of India, apart from the land borders, it has a very long sea flank as well. If our marines develop an offensive capability, Indians will be forced to raise or deploy major chunk of their forces for protection of their coasts.

However, such operations come with their own set of complex problems.

An amphibious assault against a defended shore is perhaps the most difficult of all military operations, much harder than even a paratroop operation. It requires absolute local sea supremacy and an undisputed air superiority. The Allied landing of five divisions on the Normandy coast in 1944 involved there and a half years of preparation and a host of other operations ranging from Dieppe to Anzio for experience.

A forced landing is not something to be taken lightly. The only country today in a position to make such landings is the US, which maintains an approx 200k Marine Corps along with more than 70 large specialized landing ships. To cover its landings, the U.S. Marine Corps uses fighter cover from its own fighter squadrons operating off its massive assault helicopter carriers (including 40,000 ton ships), and fighter and gunfire support from the huge U.S. Navy armadas. A landing could be covered by atleast three giant aircraft carriers with 180 combat aircraft, 50 anti- submarine warfare aircraft, and upto 70 other specialized aircraft including tankers, ECM, and early warning planes. Some 30 frigates, destroyers, and cruisers would support such a force.

Instead of amphibious landings, can’t the marine strike corps act like a normal army strike corps and attack by land? India is right next to us. If we have a marine strike corps which attacks Bhuj by land, that can force india to use its amphibious capability inside its own territory and it can be a buffer between india and Karachi. It would also make it easier for army as they can focus elsewhere. Aircraft carriers of heavy destroyers or heavy landing ships won’t even be required as Gujarat borders us and, even if the marine strike corps threatens Gujarat, that alone could be sufficient because it would be a buffer to protect Karachi and our important costal areas. All the marine strike corps would require is men, tanks, IFV, artillery and some drones. They can have limited amphibious attack capability to capture all the islands in Indus Delta.
If Pakistan gets a marine corps they should name it Muhammad Bin Qasim corps

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

The AKINCHI needs to be up in Air 24/7 Mission

a) Over Remote Areas at border between Afghanistan / KPK
b) Over Balochistan


The 24/7 Operations are needed in case any incident happens on Remote areas
A bird in air is fastest to respond vs any Helicopter rescue mission or even ground police force which may take long time to reach incident point


The AKINCHI also can play a vital role near shore flights to Support Navy

 

[Sayfullah]

The AKINCHI needs to be up in Air 24/7 Mission

a) Over Remote Areas at border between Afghanistan / KPK
b) Over Balochistan


The 24/7 Operations are needed in case any incident happens on Remote areas
A bird in air is fastest to respond vs any Helicopter rescue mission or even ground police force which may take long time to reach incident point


The AKINCHI also can play a vital role near shore flights to Support Navy

Shahpar 2 should be in the air 24/7.
It’s a smaller drone and an indigenous drone so it’s much cheaper to fly per hour then a imported drone. Shahpar 2 can carry 2 indigenous missiles which is sufficient for quick reaction and, since the missiles are indigenous their much cheaper for Pakistan.
I don’t think we should wear out and waste missiles of our best drone one which can do major damage to india in a war.
Shahpar 2 being indigenous should be our go to drone for coin since it’s much cheaper for us.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Akinchi is more closer 24/7 platform I am sure Pakistan can afford to fly Akinchi 24/7
Shahpar 2 could play a similar role / Secondary

This really is the next level setup for enhancement of Security around remote areas

Akinchi at high altitude is quiet platform you can't hear it and also it is very difficult to spot


1- Remote Highways between Gwadar / Karachi can be better patrolled with Active Drone Patrols
2- Remote Mountain ranges in Balochistan
3- Border zones Afghanistan-Pakistan
4- KPK remote borders
5- Hot Spots where Intruder activity is suspected

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

The AKINCHI needs to be up in Air 24/7 Mission

a) Over Remote Areas at border between Afghanistan / KPK
b) Over Balochistan


The 24/7 Operations are needed in case any incident happens on Remote areas
A bird in air is fastest to respond vs any Helicopter rescue mission or even ground police force which may take long time to reach incident point


The AKINCHI also can play a vital role near shore flights to Support Navy

Akin-ji....

*In Turkish, "c" is pronounced as "j"! Changing the Arabic alphabet to the Latin alphabet is no easy task considering Ottoman Turkish is in fact an amalgam of Turkish, Arabic and Persian languages.....

The AKINCHI needs to be up in Air 24/7 Mission

a) Over Remote Areas at border between Afghanistan / KPK
b) Over Balochistan


The 24/7 Operations are needed in case any incident happens on Remote areas
A bird in air is fastest to respond vs any Helicopter rescue mission or even ground police force which may take long time to reach incident point


The AKINCHI also can play a vital role near shore flights to Support Navy

Akin-ji is also planned for AD. Hovering at 50K feet with 700km range AESA based radars and EW suits, and maintaining a sat-based com in a netcentric environment on a 24/7 basis aren't easy stuffs to rule out! And, couple it with embedded ramjet powered A2A BVR missiles with 100km+ range......

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I think this AKANCHI (AKAN-JI) is a game changer acquisition which will boost Pakistan's abilities to monitor security in remote areas

1- Application for Remote Area Recon - and counter Measures
2- Near Shore coastal Area patrol to Support Coast Guard / Navy
3- Anti SAM operations to knock out S-300 / S-400 batteries (Military application)


a) Setting up a Network over Western Front would be my first priority to Provide Air Cover for Ground Patrols to reduce human casualties on Pakistan Army's side

b) Anti S-300/S-400 missions would be secondary objective

 

[Signalian]

A forced landing is not something to be taken lightly. The only country today in a position to make such landings is the US, which maintains an approx 200k Marine Corps along with more than 70 large specialized landing ships. To cover its landings, the U.S. Marine Corps uses fighter cover from its own fighter squadrons operating off its massive assault helicopter carriers (including 40,000 ton ships), and fighter and gunfire support from the huge U.S. Navy armadas. A landing could be covered by atleast three giant aircraft carriers with 180 combat aircraft, 50 anti- submarine warfare aircraft, and upto 70 other specialized aircraft including tankers, ECM, and early warning planes. Some 30 frigates, destroyers, and cruisers would support such a force.

Landing at Bhuj coast wont need much of this.

I say turn Pakistani Marine into an Army itself. Tanks, IFV, APC, attack helicopters and now drones and turn them into strike core.

Put them in COIN role to cleanse Baluchistan from BL-factions. Let the Navy take the lead this time. FC, Army, PAF, Police and other LEAs have played their part.

 

[White privilege]

Then you need a number of the following platform flying 24/7. They are highly effective against PKK in even mountainous regions.....

View attachment 861712

Turkey’s Anka UAV gains SIGINT capabilities- Tronik Defence -Aerospace

ucted with the Anka unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) carrying electronic intelligence (ELINT) and a communication intelligence (COMINT) payload,

www.tronik.com.tr

Can these drones intercept cellular signals while flying high?? because these usually disappears as soon a one takes off in a plane....

 

[Foinikas]

I say turn Pakistani Marine into an Army itself. Tanks, IFV, APC, attack helicopters and now drones and turn them into strike core.

And where will it strike?

 

[Zarvan]

And where will it strike?

On Mars !!!! India where else

Its costly of course, but its worth it afterall. If you talk of India, apart from the land borders, it has a very long sea flank as well. If our marines develop an offensive capability, Indians will be forced to raise or deploy major chunk of their forces for protection of their coasts.

However, such operations come with their own set of complex problems.

An amphibious assault against a defended shore is perhaps the most difficult of all military operations, much harder than even a paratroop operation. It requires absolute local sea supremacy and an undisputed air superiority. The Allied landing of five divisions on the Normandy coast in 1944 involved there and a half years of preparation and a host of other operations ranging from Dieppe to Anzio for experience.

A forced landing is not something to be taken lightly. The only country today in a position to make such landings is the US, which maintains an approx 200k Marine Corps along with more than 70 large specialized landing ships. To cover its landings, the U.S. Marine Corps uses fighter cover from its own fighter squadrons operating off its massive assault helicopter carriers (including 40,000 ton ships), and fighter and gunfire support from the huge U.S. Navy armadas. A landing could be covered by atleast three giant aircraft carriers with 180 combat aircraft, 50 anti- submarine warfare aircraft, and upto 70 other specialized aircraft including tankers, ECM, and early warning planes. Some 30 frigates, destroyers, and cruisers would support such a force.

This idea needs to be studied. First increase them to 30000 or 40000 and if it is successful then even further.

 

[Foinikas]

On Mars !!!! India where else

Yes,but where? And why? Do you plan to land somewhere and occupy something? It would be a waste of men and resources. You want to occupy a port city? You will have a gazillion Indians pounding the forces holding that port city. You want to go deep inside India? How far can you go?

 

[dBSPL]

Akin-ji is also planned for AD. Hovering at 50K feet with 700km range AESA based radars and EW suits, and maintaining a sat-based com in a netcentric environment on a 24/7 basis aren't easy stuffs to rule out! And, couple it with embedded ramjet powered A2A BVR missiles with 100km+ range......

AKINCI will use a GaN based AESA Radar. (MuraD-IHA) It is currently in the testing and integration phase. I don't want to go into too much detail, but basically it will have superior specs than the APG-83 radar in the F-16 Viper. The real question here is the total engine power of AKINCI. Combat jets do not have such a problem. Gallium Nitride-based electronic phased array radars provide tremendous advantages in this scaling and power efficiency. This technological innovation makes it possible to make powerful radar integrations to AKINCI class strategic UAVs.

However, the real multiplier effect will be the KEMENT-based military tactical data link network capability. So, for example, AEWC aircraft, or other combat jets with this capability, can be used to detect and classify targets, illuminate, and course&guide missiles. In addition to its traditional duties, the AKINCI system also provides the ability to keep a certain amount of ammunition in the air 24/7.

What is the next step? For example, with 4 Akıncı, you can keep 32 BVRAAMs in the air 24/7. This can allow you to perform CAP missions with less jets. On top of that, it can enable you to build an air defense network that is deployed directly in the air.

 

[dBSPL]

Regarding the MPA - UAV issue; I will open a thread about this soon. TAF has been interested in purchasing P-8 poseidon for many years and this has been mentioned many times by the force commands. However, due to relations with the USA, such a purchase is no longer likely. Therefore, the creation of configurations suitable for the use of strategic UAVs as MPA on the SSB side is one of the most prominent issues in recent years.

There is a serious study not only on Aesa-Radar but also on many subcomponents. You can find information on a wide range of sub-working areas in Turkish forums/defense circles such as SAR, GMTI, ISAR, EO/CATS FLIR, MAD systems, electronic intelligence and attack systems for maritime airrafts, high-altitude sonobuoy pods, medium-range cruise missiles and anti-submarine torpedoes, scaled to UAVs.

SSB has come very close to creating a solution based on distributed/peripheral systems rather than a single platform in this area. In other words, an MPA concept will emerge in multiple number of UAV platforms with an operational radius of 3-4 thousand kilometers and a patrol time of 15-30 hours will act as a whole. One issue that requires the system to have a distributed architecture is that some systems need low altitude flight envelopes while others do not. These systems can act in integrated with a manned MPA, and thus they could incredibly increase the efficiency and area of dominance of the aircraft in question by several times.

Today, the subject of loyal-wings to accompany combat jets is very popular in aviation circles. However, the real potential in the joint operational concepts of manned and unmanned systems is in the field of maritime.