Pakistan offers JF-17 jet fighters to Indonesian Air Force

[Arsalan]

right, Lockheed and Boeing execs are jumping out of windows and splattering on side walks as we speak .

its not a case that JF is beating Boeing or lockheed hands down but surely it is going to cause trouble in the market.
the low price tags it bears accompanied with open structure allows the buyer to fit it with any thing he wants and can afford. this is a unique option not presented by many but admored by a lot!

this unoque character of the Thunder enalbes its operator to modify the plane in accordance with what they have to face in troubling time.

it can house bigger and better radar, increase in hard point is on cards and thus will be able to carry more pay load, if copled a more powerfull radar it will leap forward into next league of fighter planes. its all about $$ and requirment.

for PAF as far as i can sense, the first two block are only going to be number filler, still with good fire power and specs. however the bird will start to evolve in true sense when the production enteres third block. hopefully, God Willingly, if PAC can get them going in export market, JF is bound to turn fortunes of PAF and thus the Country on whole.



regards!

 

[dbc]

Let me give you the reason of worry for major aircraft manufacturers. Since late 20th century, they all focused on high performance, highly expensive fighters for the 21st century by developing front line, ultra expensive fighters and in doing so, forgot the most vital segment i.e. the mainstay segment. This is the segment where F-16 and Mig-21 became major success stories for US and Russia but now they all went ahead with SUs, Raptors, Rafales, Eurofighters and JSFs. Since the mainstay segment is vacant, China and Pakistan saw a window of opportunity to penetrate the military aviation market with a product that not only delivers all the capabilities of a fourth gen fighter but at a cost which no other country can compete with as of now.
Also, most countries can not afford ultra expensive fighters like above mentioned ones. Heck, even Grippen costs more than 50 mil and it is a light fighter. Major aircraft manufacturers have committed a blunder and now they are realizing what they are about to loose but with the presence of JFT, it seems all too late for them. This point is further validated by no interest for Rafale, Brits are reducing their EF orders as they can't afford it anymore and even Germans are revising their initial requirements and these are not poor countries by any means. No one would have thought Turkish and Indonesian interest in JFT but this has happened and shows what prospect it holds in years to come.

You claim major aircraft manufacturers are "worried" about the JF-17 - why should they be? By your own admission major western manufacturer's are not competing in the same low tech low tier space.

I understand euphoria over expressed interest but the JF-17 has a long way to go before "interest" translates to real sales. Claiming panic amongst the established players is a bit premature.

 

[iPhone]

I think it's safe to say Pakistan is going the Honda route with JF-17. Performence, reliablity at offordable price, ultimately becoming the backbone of auto/aircraft industry. And no way it "can't" be considered a smart move.

 

[Super Falcon]

than what probleum france has and why they stoped the deal which they have sign to provide avionics suites and radars for the system and sir russian CEO of SU and Mig are really worried about the deal of engines of JF 17 project they want russia to stop the deal so other countries buy the struggling Mig 29

 

[TOPGUN]

In the world of business in any business you have to show and offer the rest takes place by the so called buyer .... we are doing our part its a good aircraft for a cheap price so lets see who comes to buy i hope there are some buyers.

 

[SBD-3]

we might not replace our old fleet(F-5,MiG-29N and Hawk 208) with all of them Flanker but that doesn't mean we will acquire JF-17 either

RMAF is focusing on 4.5 generation aircraft with 2 engine,multirole capabilite,long range and heavy payload and maritime capability.several option already being considered.F/A-18F is one of the candidate but eurofighter typhoon and rafale are also on the list(JAS-39 too but i don't think we'll ever bought this)

well i have calculated the the max distance between one side of Malaysia and Indonesia is 3600 KMs max...but all other ranges are quite reasonable for thunder to be an option....yes twin engine planes are usually preferred for maritime operation..but I think you would have seen a C-802 with JFT in picture....so it can be used as a maritime defence fighter...but considering that possible adversiries....Indonesia at the moment lags behind not only in-terms of AC but also lack of strike AC....Thailand, well except Griffons, they dont have much to show except bl-15 falcons. Singapore however, has a very good qualitative and quantitative edge over RMAF....but the regional AF size hovers around 75-80 ACs in this case RMAF may look for expensive platforms as they dont have to maintain a sizable AF..here are some of the statistics that I complied

Country ACs Modernization Ratio Strike AC ratio

Malaysia 71 51% 25%

Indonesia ~47 15% 11%

Thailand ~169 ~11% ~2%

Singapore 143 91% 60%

so Malaysia not only needs more ACs but more modern and more strike AC as well....(at least 60+ to come on par with RSAF) I think Indonesia will seriously considering JFT, well Malaysian will have to spend about 6-7 Billion Dollars on procuring new Platforms.....JFT looks attractive in a way that they can buy more modernized JFTs with local production in either same or lesser amount...attractive deal isn't it?

 

[maverick1977]

West will sure be worried. ..... if the same tech of F16 is offered out for 50mill a piece and a JF17 with same tech for 20 to 25mill$... west will for sure be hurting... poor countries in this economic times will definately go for JF 17 for not only based on BVR missiles, but also for GPS missiles and anti ship role...

 

[araz]

You claim major aircraft manufacturers are "worried" about the JF-17 - why should they be? By your own admission major western manufacturer's are not competing in the same low tech low tier space.

I understand euphoria over expressed interest but the JF-17 has a long way to go before "interest" translates to real sales. Claiming panic amongst the established players is a bit premature.

He has already answered your post so there is a reason why the western nations are worried. It is called economy. As to Euphoria, you may be right but it isa also a mtter of pride for us. What happens in the future cannot be predicted but we do think we have a product that fulfills a dire need for a lot of nations. Whether it happens or not is something only time will tell.
Araz

 

[araz]

than what probleum france has and why they stoped the deal which they have sign to provide avionics suites and radars for the system and sir russian CEO of SU and Mig are really worried about the deal of engines of JF 17 project they want russia to stop the deal so other countries buy the struggling Mig 29

TImes are tough and everyone is worried about incursions into their normal spheres of influence. China has a policy where it has managed to control the world market due to the ability to produce reasonable quality at a cheap price.This is the policy that won Japan its current state in the world economic market. Pakistan is in symbiosis with China and are trying to co produce things not only to increase their technological base but also use the influence that China has over various markets to advance its interests.
Araz

 

[gogbot]

A Bucket of cold water

Pakistan offers jet fighter to Indonesian Military | The Jakarta Post

Minister Mukhtar was here to sign the Defense Cooperation Agreement between the two countries at the Defense Ministry.

Has this deal been Signed ?

Pakistan Defense Minister Chaudhary Ahmed Mukhtar offers his Indonesian counterpart the latest jet fighter called the JF-17 during his visit to Jakarta on Wednesday.

Defense Minister Purnomo Yusgiantoro responded to the offer, saying that further discussion would be conducted in October.

“We will see it first before we decide if we have an interest in purchasing the aircraft,” Purnomo said.

Purnomo said he learned there had been 500 JF-17 jet fighters produced; 350 are allocated for Pakistan and the remaining 150 are for China.

“I have been informed that Pakistan’s jet fighter’s level is above the US F-16 jet fighter, as well as Russia’s Sukhoi. But we need to see it first hand,” he said.

The Defense Ministry is currently developing its own jet fighter project with South Korea. Dubbed the KFX project, the project is aimed at providing both countries with five jet fighter prototypes before 2020.

Mass production of the KFX jet fighter is expected to take place after the project reaches its break-even point of 200 aircraft units.

So they are working on their on their own plane.

Bhatara Ibnu Reza, Imparsial’s research coordinator, warned that the Indonesian military should prioritize the improvement of its own defense industry.

He said if offers like that from Pakistan contributed to the reinforcement of the country’s defense industry, then Imparsial suggested Indonesia take advantage of it.

“I strongly suggest that we pay serious attention to rebuilding our defense industry so it becomes a strong backbone for the future,” he told The Jakarta Post.

Both countries have also planned to conduct a joint naval exercise in December this year.

 

[Areesh]

A Bucket of cold water

May be you need it more than anybody else.

Has this deal been Signed ?

No. But you have to talk and discuss before you sign the deal. Your MRCA is one such example. You still haven't signed the deal. It is the first step towards signing the deal.

So they are working on their on their own plane.

So? So what?

Lolzzz

 

[Quwa]

We'll have to wait and see if Indonesia will acquire JF-17. Pakistan simply offered and for now there seems to be Indonesian interest in evaluating the fighter. A couple things to note though. Firstly, I don't think Indonesia is interested in flying its F-5E Tiger IIs all through this decade, hence its interest in new-built F-16s. However, there is a tight U.S. arms embargo on the country (link). And of course, F-16 isn't cheap either (nearing $100mn per fighter). I'm sure PAF connected the dots and decided to jump in with a potentially very attractive offer to the Indonesian Air Force.

 

[Trisonics]

I think the biggest boost for the JF17 in terms of exports will be if China inducted this in their air force ASAP. I would then see countries line up. Pakistan is not exactly known to be an aircraft or avionics manufacturer, its still heavily dependent on the Chinese for the most part. So any updates that are needed will still have to go through China.. for example if a country wanted a trainer version or a naval version can Pakistan manufacture it?

If China inducted this aircraft it would also give tremendous confidence to most buyers...

This is just my honest opinion...hope i'm not branded as a troll

 

[Dazzler]

You claim major aircraft manufacturers are "worried" about the JF-17 - why should they be? By your own admission major western manufacturer's are not competing in the same low tech low tier space.

I understand euphoria over expressed interest but the JF-17 has a long way to go before "interest" translates to real sales. Claiming panic amongst the established players is a bit premature.

You took my post in the wrong context buddy. No where did i say that they are loosing or about to loose sleep over JFT but the most profitable segment of any market is the main stream segment and this segment in fighter market has just one newly developed contender. If aviation giants had considered to occupy this segment, there would have been a tough competition but what we see instead is radically advanced fighters developed consuming billions and billions of $ in R&D and inductions delayed repeatedly resulting increasing costs and decreasing revenues. Look around you and you will find this story from JSF to Rafale. Current fighters are considered too expensive to buy, maintain by many countries including those in Europe.

 

[Quwa]

I think the biggest boost for the JF17 in terms of exports will be if China inducted this in their air force ASAP. I would then see countries line up. Pakistan is not exactly known to be an aircraft or avionics manufacturer, its still heavily dependent on the Chinese for the most part. So any updates that are needed will still have to go through China.. for example if a country wanted a trainer version or a naval version can Pakistan manufacture it?

If China inducted this aircraft it would also give tremendous confidence to most buyers...

This is just my honest opinion...hope i'm not branded as a troll

Pakistan buying large numbers of JF-17 in itself is a major positive for the aircraft. Reason is simple. Had the JF-17 failed to meet PAF's modernization requirements and long-term directive, then it would've shafted the number of Thunders down and gone for additional F-16s and even J-10A (instead of just waiting for J-10B). Pakistan is a MNNA and can get scores of used F-16s through EDA and upgrade them with MLU or CCIP.