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Pakistan needs to focus & spend more on its education sector which is lagging behind.

Not as useful anymore when the economy is imploding. When they rule directly and the economy is humming along, most of the people went along for that primary reason.

Also, seeing what has happened to our east and to our west has shown what continuing down that patch can lead to, while going down the economy first path can lead to.

I don’t think people can be fooled as easily before for a number of reasons.

Again, as I have often observed, those are all mere claims for now. Whether any or all of them actually come true remains to be seen. I will wait and see.
 
There are many factors which are responsible for low education in Pakistan which may be less spending on education, quality issues, corruption issues , incompetence issue, political involvement, not taken education priority, and many more other Problems , such Pakistan has faced deadly terrorism for the last 20 years , harming stalling pakistan in a state of paralysis?
 
What choice did Zia have? he did what he did to unite the country.

He thought Islam would bring Pakistan together at a time when when ethno nationalism had just broken the country into two.

Who is to say he was not right?

Is that a joke?? Under Zia, MQM rose. Under Zia, Sindhi separatism was the strongest: He cynically used G.M. Sayyad just to counter PPP in Sindh. He broke PPP which was the only party which considerable presence in at least 3 out of the four provinces of Pakistan; it is only when PTI's recent rise some alternative has emerged.

Zia was a fanatic and milder version of Mullah Omar or Khomenei. The idiot even thought Pakistanis should learn Arabic to unite the country and perhaps would have replaced Urdu with Arabic as the national language if/when his plan succeeded in teaching Arabic.
 
I disagree- Zia did screw up Pakistan, but the real damage was done by Bhutto’s socialism. Destroyed the economy, destroyed meritocracy.

Also arguably, for the national direction, whoever assassinated Liaquat Ali.

I agree Zia was bad and so was NS.

But having a religious society is not the issue. The issue is with lack of merit and jahalat. IK should not back away from his vision of an Islamic republic. This is the legacy of Iqbal and Jinnah. Should not be and cannot be undone.

I guess to be fair though, one thing I have to agree with is that there has not been enough of an impact of a middle class Islamist movement like JI. The majority of the impact as far as Islam is concerned is from lower class muslim movements, barelwism and Deobandism.

This is a far cry from the “liberal” Muslim understanding of Shibli Nomani and nadwi movements and Iqbal. And serves as a good support for an Islamic democracy. Which is a shame I guess.

There is already enough 'Islam' in Pakistan to the point of fanaticism! Quit bringing up ideologies and religious figures from decades ago. If you want to know what works then at least look at Bangladesh which is Pakistan's closest point of reference: Religion should be a personal matter while stability and education is required above all. It is not rocket science. Live in the modern world or join the ranks of the likes of the Islamic Emirates of Afghanistan.
And, no, Bhutto's socialism didn't destroy Pakistan. There was some damage to the economy due to nationalization but Pakistan was ahead of India even into the 1980s. Private industry still was functional under Bhutto. Bhutto may have been an egotistical autocrat but many things are blamed wrongly on him.
 
Mass literacy and compulsory education for everyone will make people more productive as well as remove child labor (and some of the incentive for people to have more kids then they can afford to feed), making it easier for adults to find work.

As he points out in the video from the School, along with Faith, Unity, and Discipline, we need to add Tolerance to the national motto


According to this video 25 million children are out of school in Pakistan and it costs this school featured 30,000 rupees a year to give them this shown level of education. 750 Billion rupees more per year can have every child in school; or about $2.68 Billion.

Pakistan needs a plan to grow exports so it can close this gap of a relatively modest amount.
 
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With the current looming default - it does look like the first queue will be joining the back of the 2nd queue in 2nd picture i suspect.
my brother rich here are 100% safe of every economical situation . rich have dollars gold euros and most importantly agriculture land . only poor will suffer more and more . 10 tons of gold sold recently in pakistan . where all of dollars gone ? yes they have gone in lockers of rich . PAKISTANI GOV have no money yes . but paksitani rich have so much money that they can do anything can buy anything and can move anywhere .
 
There is already enough 'Islam' in Pakistan to the point of fanaticism! Quit bringing up ideologies and religious figures from decades ago. If you want to know what works then at least look at Bangladesh which is Pakistan's closest point of reference: Religion should be a personal matter while stability and education is required above all. It is not rocket science. Live in the modern world or join the ranks of the likes of the Islamic Emirates of Afghanistan.
And, no, Bhutto's socialism didn't destroy Pakistan. There was some damage to the economy due to nationalization but Pakistan was ahead of India even into the 1980s. Private industry still was functional under Bhutto. Bhutto may have been an egotistical autocrat but many things are blamed wrongly on him.
The figures I bring up are the founding fathers. Bhutto’s socialism slowly poisoned Pakistan. 1) By replacing the market economy, 2) nationalizing the schools which is relevant here as to why our education outcomes are so poor and 3) replacing merit with jiyalaism. Additionally he played his part in breaking Pakistan apart.

So agree to disagree I guess
 
The figures I bring up are the founding fathers. Bhutto’s socialism slowly poisoned Pakistan. 1) By replacing the market economy, 2) nationalizing the schools which is relevant here as to why our education outcomes are so poor and 3) replacing merit with jiyalaism. Additionally he played his part in breaking Pakistan apart.

So agree to disagree I guess
2 still could have been managed much better even if he did nationalise the schools.
 
Decentralised education is literally the worst idea i've ever heard of. You can disagree with the contents of the cirriculum and we can debate over that, but other than that it is a negative.

Firstly you say that you dont want education to be a business, but then do you expect the government to create a different cirriculum for every other school location? Tf

Also it makes more sense if everyone is taught the same cirriculum, then takes a standardised test, so we can better compare the quality of an individual and his capabilities with his peers across the nation.

This also helps higher education institutions to judge their candidate's capabilities because everyone has taken a standardised test and can be judged equally. This isn't possible if you're taking random different courses and random exams.

This is how it works internationally, and then you have the option to also choose which specific subjects you want to study, but having people study individual cirriculums is pure stupidity and makes you disorganised.

@_NOBODY_ Opinion on this
I definitely can see where you are coming from, perhaps you are right in many ways
But
9th grade biology textbooks literally deny darwinian evolution by quoting religion instead of science.
Pak studies books label Bengali rebels as terrorists and dont mention the 1971 genocide anywhere
I havent seen a mention of SSDs in high school comp textbooks, just some (nearly) outdated storage devices.
The books are also poorly printed, not to mention they have to undergo a check by some mullahs beforehand too.
I think both of us know how accountable our government is, i dont think i trust them.
Perhaps there should be a certain metric upon which a students capabilities must be judged, but idk about that

End of day Pakistani textbooks work to ideologically confine the reader making him a slave of government institutions
Same has been the case even with American public school textbooks
I think i'd rather prefer more autonomy over what me or my child learns
 
I definitely can see where you are coming from, perhaps you are right in many ways
But
9th grade biology textbooks literally deny darwinian evolution by quoting religion instead of science.
Pak studies books label Bengali rebels as terrorists and dont mention the 1971 genocide anywhere
I havent seen a mention of SSDs in high school comp textbooks, just some (nearly) outdated storage devices.
The books are also poorly printed, not to mention they have to undergo a check by some mullahs beforehand too.
I think both of us know how accountable our government is, i dont think i trust them.
Perhaps there should be a certain metric upon which a students capabilities must be judged, but idk about that

End of day Pakistani textbooks work to ideologically confine the reader making him a slave of government institutions
Same has been the case even with American public school textbooks
I think i'd rather prefer more autonomy over what me or my child learns
Basically, my observations as an outsider are except for the carve outs (private education), Roht memorization is emphasized over critical thinking on top of ad-hocly implemented and excessive ideology. A culture emphasizing unquestioning obedience and conformity over inquisitive creativity. In some fields that can work for a time like medicine, but even this causes limitations. No wonder foreign merit based exams are the final judge of the quality of local education.

Not sure if it really is this bad but it sounds like this is approximately the severity of the problem.
 
Basically, my observations as an outsider are except for the carve outs (private education), Roht memorization is emphasized over critical thinking on top of ad-hocly implemented and excessive ideology. A culture emphasizing unquestioning obedience and conformity over inquisitive creativity. In some fields that can work for a time like medicine, but even this causes limitations. No wonder foreign merit based exams are the final judge of the quality of local education.

Not sure if it really is this bad but it sounds like this is approximately the severity of the problem.
Pretty much spot on.
Also bs from school admin and teachers adds extra pressure.
Corporal punishments still go around despite laws making it illegal
 
Is that a joke?? Under Zia, MQM rose. Under Zia, Sindhi separatism was the strongest: He cynically used G.M. Sayyad just to counter PPP in Sindh. He broke PPP which was the only party which considerable presence in at least 3 out of the four provinces of Pakistan; it is only when PTI's recent rise some alternative has emerged.

Zia was a fanatic and milder version of Mullah Omar or Khomenei. The idiot even thought Pakistanis should learn Arabic to unite the country and perhaps would have replaced Urdu with Arabic as the national language if/when his plan succeeded in teaching Arabic.
I am not saying the results of what he did was good, he was just doing what he though best to damp down ethno nationalism, which as you point out was rampant at that time.

Honestly, I think the final outcome we have today was pretty much a given from 1947 itself. There was nothing we could have done differently or better.
 
Pretty much spot on.
Also bs from school admin and teachers adds extra pressure.
Corporal punishments still go around despite laws making it illegal
There is also the problem of no set schedule. Final Exams can be when ever the school decides. It seems a lot is run in an ad hoc manner.

I guess it all part of the consequences of driving off the most competent people and those still in Pakistan have to manage as best as possible until they (if we’ll off enough or highly educated enough to make it abroad) too can emigrate if given a chance.

There was the scene in the movie reluctant fundamentalist, asking what the Pakistani dream was. The main character as the professor in the movie puts the caveat of “one that doesn’t involve emigrating”.

Basically, 800K of probably the most productive people left in 2022 and $17+ billion is given as subsidies for the elite. If just $3 Billion were spent on education of young kids it would put 25 million kids in school, probably employing more than a million teachers. A billion more and we could improve university education to a decent level and a further $500 million to a billion could boost the quality of our top universities. Our IT talent could come out of this modest investment in only 2-4 years.

 
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