Pakistan Navy: The Phoenix Rises

[21 Dec 2012]

Pak built the atomic bomb by early 80s... and nobody knew... even the americans became suspicous in the 90s... about a fukin nuclear bomb.. and not the reactors at Chashma etc...

Don't want to be part of the rest of the mess but the first sanctions on Pakistan were placed all the way back in 1979 under the much lesser known 'Symington Amendment'. These were then waived off due to Soviet invasion. To suggest that the US did not know about about Pakistani nuclear weapons or reactors till the 90's is quite a flight of fantasy.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Don't want to be part of the rest of the mess but the first sanctions on Pakistan were placed all the way back in 1979 under the much lesser known 'Symington Amendment'. These were then waived off due to Soviet invasion. To suggest that the US did not know about about Pakistani nuclear weapons or reactors till the 90's is quite a flight of fantasy.

And by 83 we cold tested the nukes?... While they were all guessing if we had an active nuclear program during Zias era?

 

[Falcon26]

I chuckled on this one..

Pak built the atomic bomb by early 80s... and nobody knew... even the americans became suspicous in the 90s... about a fukin nuclear bomb.. and not the reactors at Chashma etc...

And here we are talking about a miniature reactor which has been in the works since the early 2000s... and confirmed even by the president of the time..

But anyways... sure we cant develop anything man.. Be happy .. dont rattle your cage too much...

P.S: There are alot of thing members with inside info on this forum know.. yet we dont disclose it... many times we did only after the news pops up incidently...

For example..

@Oscar The guy himself is from the defence industry.. Has been involved directly..

@Bilal Khan 777 Former PAF war vet and also involved...

But hey you are free to believe what you want.. we arent forcing you to trust us now are we?

I knew about the new rifles,production and induction of panters n MLRS ... kept quiet (even today regarding alot of stuff for obvious reasons)... i even knew when the first panters arrived for testing at Arty School,Nowshehra ...back in 2008...
People here do that often.

Apart from the episode when somebody leaked pics of still non acknowledged SAMs on this forum a long time ago. ask Oscar..


Some indians posted pics and news from "Defence News" of what they believed were NASR launchers and their "pads" and whatnot:


View attachment 344892
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https://defence.pk/threads/pakistan-sets-up-tactical-nuclear-missiles-base.428515/


in reality... well .. Not even close...

Pakistan could pursue a dual track nuclear program of Uranium enrichment & plutonium clandestinely procuring critical components without rising any suspicions from the many Western spy agencies till the last minute when Pakistan was on the verge of readying its first nuclear bomb in the early 1980s. And yet, according to these Indians, Pakistan can't be expected to hide the development of a miniature nuclear reactor small enough to fit into a submarine? Gotta love the logic of these Indians.

Reminds me of the constant denials from the Indians that Pakistan did not have the requisite knowhow to miniaturize nuclear bombs enough to fit inside missiles. Today to Indians the tactical nuclear bombs of Pakistan in the form of NASR are the biggest headaches afflicting Indian military strategists to the point their cold start doctrine has been stopped right on its tracks.

Give them enough time. Reality will hit them hard in the face.....as it always does!

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Pakistan could pursue a dual track nuclear program of Uranium enrichment & plutonium clandestinely procuring critical components without rising any suspicions from the many Western spy agencies till the last minute when Pakistan was on the verge of readying its first nuclear bomb in the early 1980s. And yet, according to these Indians, Pakistan can't be expected to hide the development of a miniature nuclear reactor small enough to fit into a submarine? Gotta love the logic of these Indians.

Reminds me of the constant denials from the Indians that Pakistan did not have the requisite knowhow to miniaturize nuclear bombs enough to fit inside missiles. Today to Indians the tactical nuclear bombs of Pakistan in the form of NASR are the biggest headaches afflicting Indian military strategists to the point their cold start doctrine has been stopped right on its tracks.

Give them enough time. Reality will hit them hard in the face.....as it always does!

Thank you very much for explaining the reality. I have to admit some Indian bloggers have this demonic power to instill doubts in the minds of the readers to the point that obvious truths tend to become oblivious....

 

[Arsalan]

Hi dear @Arsalan
Thanks for taking time to reply the comment. I would like to point out couple of things here and those are-
if there was indeed a nuclear reactor under design and development in pakistan as you'd like me believe--the whole world would have known by now.Normally reactors like these are erected in the compounds adjoining exisiting nuclear power plants. These kind of naval prototypes also require huge building along with specific infrastructure that can be easily picked up by satellites--to your surprise,india gets live feed of what happens on the other side of the border every after 15mins--thanks to various low earth satellites.In fact ISRO have plans to inject a observation/spy sat operating in optical band in Geo stationary orbit that will render sub 50m resolution--kindly note geo sat spy sats have normally lower resolution because of the distance they are from earth! This will enable india to have constant watch over her adversaries 24x7!Now existence of any naval reactor would most likely mean "expansion" of any existing nuclear plant in pakistan. And I am sure every reactor core is accounted for!
Since pakistan doesnt have established forging facilities to forge reactor pressure vessel,pressurizers etc--she'd have to outsource all of these to either china or some place else. Any such transactions are keenly watched over by intelligence agencies.
Let me tell you that I have got my batch mates working on both civillian nuclear reactor as well as naval reactors designed by IGCAR/BARC. Our naval prototype became operational sometimes towards the mid 2000s at IGCAR facility kalpakkam--hardly 70kms from where I am right now-IIT madras!

Sir, does the whole world knows where we are getting the material for DU rounds? Where are the small scale nuclear plants in operation?

I am sorry but i cannot go into details but trust me when i say that it is not all as simple as you think.

 

[21 Dec 2012]

And by 83 we cold tested the nukes?... While they were all guessing if we had an active nuclear program during Zias era?

I see that I am not going to be getting through here with you which is fine

For the readers if there are indeed any of this line of thought, it is obviously a matter to ponder why the Carter admin put unilateral sanctions in 1979 if they were indeed clueless about Pakistani nuclear program till 90's. Or why a Pressler amendment was needed after the end of the Symington waiver to continue mil-aid. And why immediately after the Soviet being kicked out the sanctions were back again.
This not counting the fact that the Israelis and Indians had planned strikes on this supposedly invisible nuclear reactor in 1982 which was thwarted in part by the Reagan administration.​

 

[ghauri05]

your best bet is submarine fleet coupled with naval combat aircraft

we are doing fine on submarine part..but lacking in dedicated naval combat aircraft..we need a heavy fighter for that..many threads here suggest that PAF is looking for some heavy fighters but the decision making is really lethargic.

Withe the CEPEC i think we need ore surface ships too..frigates n coverts ..and atleast 2 destroyers to be powerful navy in asia.

 

[wiseone2]

Pakistan could pursue a dual track nuclear program of Uranium enrichment & plutonium clandestinely procuring critical components without rising any suspicions from the many Western spy agencies till the last minute when Pakistan was on the verge of readying its first nuclear bomb in the early 1980s. And yet, according to these Indians, Pakistan can't be expected to hide the development of a miniature nuclear reactor small enough to fit into a submarine? Gotta love the logic of these Indians.

Reminds me of the constant denials from the Indians that Pakistan did not have the requisite knowhow to miniaturize nuclear bombs enough to fit inside missiles. Today to Indians the tactical nuclear bombs of Pakistan in the form of NASR are the biggest headaches afflicting Indian military strategists to the point their cold start doctrine has been stopped right on its tracks.

Give them enough time. Reality will hit them hard in the face.....as it always does!

building a miniature operational nuclear reactor is lot harder than building a Hiroshima sized nuclear weapon
Pakistan has no experience building submarines. India Arihant class submarine is 3x larger than any diesel submarine Pakistan operates

we are doing fine on submarine part..but lacking in dedicated naval combat aircraft..we need a heavy fighter for that..many threads here suggest that PAF is looking for some heavy fighters but the decision making is really lethargic.

Withe the CEPEC i think we need ore surface ships too..frigates n coverts ..and atleast 2 destroyers to be powerful navy in asia.

there are very few choices for heavy fighter - Su-35, F/A-18, Rafale

 

[ghauri05]

building a miniature operational nuclear reactor is lot harder than building a Hiroshima sized nuclear weapon
Pakistan has no experience building submarines. India Arihant class submarine is 3x larger than any diesel submarine Pakistan operates



there are very few choices for heavy fighter - Su-35, F/A-18, Rafale

Yeah ..that's the problem..Pak is still looking for them..it has become realy long and we still don't know which plane are we gonna get?

As for submarine nuclear power reactor..yes Pak is building one..you will hear about our nuclear sub around 2019-2020. when it is fully operational.

 

[Falcon26]

building a miniature operational nuclear reactor is lot harder than building a Hiroshima sized nuclear weapon
Pakistan has no experience building submarines. India Arihant class submarine is 3x larger than any diesel submarine Pakistan operates



there are very few choices for heavy fighter - Su-35, F/A-18, Rafale

The important thing to note is that reality isn't governed by your perceptions.

 

[Areesh]

building a miniature operational nuclear reactor is lot harder than building a Hiroshima sized nuclear weapon
Pakistan has no experience building submarines. India Arihant class submarine is 3x larger than any diesel submarine Pakistan operates



there are very few choices for heavy fighter - Su-35, F/A-18, Rafale

Then what is this??

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PNS_Saad

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PNS_Hamza

 

[wiseone2]

Then what is this??

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PNS_Saad

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PNS_Hamza

building a Agosta 90 submarine under license does not count

 

[Areesh]

building a Agosta 90 submarine under license does not count

Then what counts??

You and other Indian troll rants??

 

[wiseone2]

The important thing to note is that reality isn't governed by your perceptions.

unless a nuclear weapon that cannot be detonated a nuclear submarine has to operate few months every year

Then what counts??

You and other Indian troll rants??

i would not know ... you do not wakeup one day and start to build these things

 

[Areesh]

i would not know ... you do not wakeup one day and start to build these things

Nobody here is saying that Pakistan woke up one day and started building a nuclear sub.