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Pakistan Navy Questions Thread

Well, I'ld rather go for e.g a single Mk41 tactical or Sylver A43 with 8 quedpacked cells (e.g. ESSM or CAMM(M) or VT1. Even 16 VL Umkhonto or VL Mica would be good in their own present VLUs. HQ16 is relatively bulky.
The MBDA CAMM looks promising, I hope it becomes an option for PN when it becomes available for export. Ideally, the F-22P should be equipped with CAMM (32 cells) and RAM for reaction/point-defence.

Moving forward, whatever frigate or large corvette design PN pursues, they better have it designed around VLS and medium-range SAMs.
 
Or can we see them in museum or are they stored and put in reserve ?
The MBDA CAMM looks promising, I hope it becomes an option for PN when it becomes available for export. Ideally, the F-22P should be equipped with CAMM (32 cells) and RAM for reaction/point-defence.

Moving forward, whatever frigate or large corvette design PN pursues, they better have it designed around VLS and medium-range SAMs.
Agree.

Sea Ceptor will operate from the SYLVER and Mk41 launchers in a quad-pack configuration to maximise packing density or, for smaller ships, various flexible canister configurations are available. One or two pairs of Mk41 single cell launchers could make a nice upgrade. Sea Ceptor does not require a dedicated Tracking Radar as it uses ship target indication data provided by its surveillance radar to offer protection. So, in theory, you could take your original F22P and just add CAMM, provided a suitable place/volume can be found for VLU and weigh remain within safe margins. E.g. mounted against the front of the stack (would require minor relocation of AShM racks) .

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/conte...s/launchers/Single_Cell_Launcher_brochure.pdf
http://www.mbda-systems.com/mediagallery/files/sea-ceptor_datasheet-1379420378.pdf
 
Agree.

Sea Ceptor will operate from the SYLVER and Mk41 launchers in a quad-pack configuration to maximise packing density or, for smaller ships, various flexible canister configurations are available. One or two pairs of Mk41 single cell launchers could make a nice upgrade. Sea Ceptor does not require a dedicated Tracking Radar as it uses ship target indication data provided by its surveillance radar to offer protection. So, in theory, you could take your original F22P and just add CAMM, provided a suitable place/volume can be found for VLU and weigh remain within safe margins. E.g. mounted against the front of the stack (would require minor relocation of AShM racks) .

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/conte...s/launchers/Single_Cell_Launcher_brochure.pdf
http://www.mbda-systems.com/mediagallery/files/sea-ceptor_datasheet-1379420378.pdf
I'm sure a VLS based SAM will eventually be incorporated onto the F-22Ps, if not Mk.41 with CAMM then possibly Umkhonto or an equivalent from China (or Pakistan, who knows). That said, CAMM does at least offer another potentially good medium-range SAM system option for future PN frigates and/or corvettes. However, securing Mk.41 VLS launchers may be a challenge given the precarious nature of U.S-Pakistan ties, thankfully there's also SYLVER A43.

It is my dream to see Pakistan actually design (with overseas help, of course) a 3500+ FFG that incorporates not only today's latest systems, but also future solutions. Starting from scratch would be the best way to ensure that the right systems are included from the onset, e.g. SYLVER/Mk.41, CAMM, new-gen AShW and ASW systems, etc. I think a fleet of 6-8 such ships (alongside smaller corvettes, OPVs, boats and a good aviation corps) would be sufficient for the PN.
 
Is PN looking to totally depend on OHPs as 7 more are coming. Then PN should sell their F-22Ps and 3 Agosta-90Bs to Yemen.
It won't work that way :)

The PN probably considers the OHP to be a good option to immediately replace the Type-21s until they can secure an FFG that's bigger and more capable than the F-22P. The main question many have is whether the PN would succeed in having its OHPs upgraded with systems such as Mk.41 and ESSM, GENESIS, etc. Such capabilities on the OHPs will afford the PN a lot of time in its search for a new and superior frigate. It's just unclear whether the PN will succeed in getting such an upgrade on the OHPs, so let's wait and see.

On that note, no, the PN will not sell the F-22P and Agosta-90B. They'll use them for decades to come :)
 
Is PN looking to totally depend on OHPs as 7 more are coming. Then PN should sell their F-22Ps and 3 Agosta-90Bs to Yemen.
No it isn't, OHP was never intended as more than gap filler. ANd it remains to be seen whether 7 more are forthcoming. There are other takers e.g. Taiwan, which wants 8 as well to replace the even older Knox frigates it got from US.
 
It won't work that way :)

The PN probably considers the OHP to be a good option to immediately replace the Type-21s until they can secure an FFG that's bigger and more capable than the F-22P. The main question many have is whether the PN would succeed in having its OHPs upgraded with systems such as Mk.41 and ESSM, GENESIS, etc. Such capabilities on the OHPs will afford the PN a lot of time in its search for a new and superior frigate. It's just unclear whether the PN will succeed in getting such an upgrade on the OHPs, so let's wait and see.

On that note, no, the PN will not sell the F-22P and Agosta-90B. They'll use them for decades to come :)

The upgrade depends on whether PN actually gets more ships or not. The agreement is signed, but it will only become effective at the arrival of more OHPs.

"Havelsan, Müldür said, also has surveyed the Pakistani Alamgir, the country’s lone FFG, and the company has a contingency agreement with Pakistan to upgrade the ships should more frigates be transferred."

 
No it isn't, OHP was never intended as more than gap filler. ANd it remains to be seen whether 7 more are forthcoming. There are other takers e.g. Taiwan, which wants 8 as well to replace the even older Knox frigates it got from US.

Which Muslim countries are operating OHPs and how many of them. As, PN can easily convince US to buy from them at a scrap cost and upgrade it with US supplied equipment within Pakistan.
 
The upgrade depends on whether PN actually gets more ships or not. The agreement is signed, but it will only become effective at the arrival of more OHPs.

"Havelsan, Müldür said, also has surveyed the Pakistani Alamgir, the country’s lone FFG, and the company has a contingency agreement with Pakistan to upgrade the ships should more frigates be transferred."

So how many OHPs are operational world wide...
Oliver Hazard Perry-class frigate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also US can use turkey as well as Pakistan as a scraping place for its old equipments....

It won't work that way :)

The PN probably considers the OHP to be a good option to immediately replace the Type-21s until they can secure an FFG that's bigger and more capable than the F-22P. The main question many have is whether the PN would succeed in having its OHPs upgraded with systems such as Mk.41 and ESSM, GENESIS, etc. Such capabilities on the OHPs will afford the PN a lot of time in its search for a new and superior frigate. It's just unclear whether the PN will succeed in getting such an upgrade on the OHPs, so let's wait and see.

On that note, no, the PN will not sell the F-22P and Agosta-90B. They'll use them for decades to come :)

Still I think better for PN was to do JV with China on commercial and Military ship building and also taking help from Turkey as well.
 
Still I think better for PN was to do JV with China on commercial and Military ship building and also taking help from Turkey as well.
Although more difficult and expensive, it'd be better for Pakistan to design and produce a suitable frigate on its own. I'm not saying this because I want the PN to have its own program for the sake of it, but because it'll give the PN most flexibility and room to decide on the weapon systems and electronics to use on their ships.

Going Chinese may result in having to depend on China 100%, if not for cost reasons then for possible political and technical concerns on the part of non-Chinese suppliers.

A good solution would be to take the JF-17-route in frigates. Work on a general design with China and master the development process within Pakistan so that it'd be Pakistan who will be integrating the subsystems into the design. With that secured, the PN can go around secure systems from Turkey, France, UK and wherever else.

This my proposal:

1. Work with China on a 3500-4000 ton multi-mission frigate design that is capable of housing VLS and other current (as well as future) systems. Make sure the design is stealthy, perhaps to the level of Singapore's Formidable Class or DCNS FM400. Acquire enough expertise to produce the frigate indigenously and undertake most if not all future development associated with it.

2. Work with MBDA on a medium-range SAM solution, perhaps Sylver with Aster 15, maybe Exocet MM40 Block III, MILAS etc.

3. An alternate would be to work with South Africa and others to work in more homegrown SAM, AShM and ASW solutions.

4. Over the long-term make it a plan to form the mainstay the fleet with these frigates, e.g. 8-12.
 
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Although more difficult and expensive, it'd be better for Pakistan to design and produce a suitable frigate on its own. I'm not saying this because I want the PN to have its own program for the sake of it, but because it'll give the PN most flexibility and room to decide on the weapon systems and electronics to use on their ships.

Going Chinese may result in having to depend on China 100%, if not for cost reasons then for possible political and technical concerns on the part of non-Chinese suppliers.

A good solution would be to take the JF-17-route in frigates. Work on a general design with China and master the development process within Pakistan so that it'd be Pakistan who will be integrating the subsystems into the design. With that secured, the PN can go around secure systems from Turkey, France, UK and wherever else.

This my proposal:

1. Work with China on a 3500-4000 ton multi-mission frigate design that is capable of housing VLS and other current (as well as future) systems. Make sure the design is stealthy, perhaps to the level of Singapore's Formidable Class or DCNS FM400. Acquire enough expertise to produce the frigate indigenously and undertake most if not all future development associated with it.

2. Work with MBDA on a medium-range SAM solution, perhaps Sylver with Aster 15, maybe Exocet MM40 Block III, MILAS etc.

3. An alternate would be to work with South Africa and others to work in more homegrown SAM, AShM and ASW solutions.

4. Over the long-term make it a plan to form the mainstay the fleet with these frigates, e.g. 8-12.

Yes you are right too. Although NESCOM, GIDS and SUPARCO along with other Public and Private corps should be working on developing Electrical/Electronics, Mechanical, Chemical and other equipment by doing R&D locally as well as with other countries like China and EU.

More over, PN has and had a great chance of bringing in close KSA, UAE, Oman, Yemen, Libya, Algeria, Tunisia and Morocco to start up a plan for:
5000 Tons Frigate
2500 Tons Corvette
1100 Tons FAC
0300 Tons Missile Craft

Although only KSA, Pakistan, Libya and Algeria would go for 5000 Frigate the rest will have all the other equipment other than this heavy frigate. We can design on our own by taking help from China, Japan/Korea and EU.

Also we need to work on Submarines together:
7000 SSBN
3500 SSKs
1600 SSKs
0700 SSKs - Coastal
0110 Special Force Submarine
Rescue Submarine
 
Nishan, where the heck do you pull all these very specific numbers from? For GOD's sake when will you grow up?
 
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