PAKISTAN NAVY PROCURES WS-61 SEA KING HELICOPTERS FROM QATAR

[Blacklight]

@Blacklight true or not?

Doesn't matter what someone on Twitter says. We PAID FOR 11

 

[araz]

Okay so we would getting more horses and bayonets next ……. Time we invest on better asw platforms the chines have a knock off blackhawk copy this would be similar to the Indian purchase!

How many AW101s will be required for fleet replacement of all the Seakings? Iam gathering we have/will have 15 such platforms after the latest Sea king induction. If the AW101cost is 100million per helicopter I work it out at 1.5 billion. Then do you think we will need more still as the Milgem will not be able to accomodate Seakings or AW101. THAT should add another 250 million .So where do you see the priority in a cash starved system which has just inducted 8 odd billion in ships and subs plus upgraded subs which might well be extra. The Seakings will do well for 10 years allowing us to prioritize other purchases and then look at helicopter replacement. At 2-3 million a pop they are cheap to buy and because we have in house overhauling experience, also to maintain. They will give us the breathing space that we need.
A

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

How many AW101s will be required for fleet replacement of all the Seakings? Iam gathering we have/will have 15 such platforms after the latest Sea king induction. If the AW101cost is 100million per helicopter I work it out at 1.5 billion. Then do you think we will need more still as the Milgem will not be able to accomodate Seakings or AW101. THAT should add another 250 million .So where do you see the priority in a cash starved system which has just inducted 8 odd billion in ships and subs plus upgraded subs which might well be extra. The Seakings will do well for 10 years allowing us to prioritize other purchases and then look at helicopter replacement. At 2-3 million a pop they are cheap to buy and because we have in house overhauling experience, also to maintain. They will give us the breathing space that we need.
A

The ASW/AShW-equipped AW101 costs over $100 m per unit, but the baseline variant (which would be good for troop transport) is about $60-70 m each. Note: these costs include training, spare parts and support for 5-10 years too.

That said, if the PN opts for the AW101, they'll go for the fully-equipped variant as they'll want it for as many roles as possible. But I wouldn't use the ships as the benchmark for how many units they'll need -- I think the large helicopters would operate from land (and maybe Moawin-class tankers).

I think the PN is looking at 6-8 such helicopters (tops 12). The bigger procurement priority is likely the ship-based requirement. As you said, the Sea Kings will hold the line for the shore-based need for some years. The growing surface fleet will need at least 8-10 new helicopters, with more once we start building Jinnah-class frigates.

 

[Yasser76]

The ASW/AShW-equipped AW101 costs over $100 m per unit, but the baseline variant (which would be good for troop transport) is about $60-70 m each. Note: these costs include training, spare parts and support for 5-10 years too.

That said, if the PN opts for the AW101, they'll go for the fully-equipped variant as they'll want it for as many roles as possible. But I wouldn't use the ships as the benchmark for how many units they'll need -- I think the large helicopters would operate from land (and maybe Moawin-class tankers).

I think the PN is looking at 6-8 such helicopters (tops 12). The bigger procurement priority is likely the ship-based requirement. As you said, the Sea Kings will hold the line for the shore-based need for some years. The growing surface fleet will need at least 8-10 new helicopters, with more once we start building Jinnah-class frigates.

If it is just troop transport more MI-17s would make sense in terms of cost and Pakistani familiarity with the aircraft no?

Agree, need of the hour now is a western ship borne ASW/AShW platform quickly for the Yarmooks and the MILGEM/Jinnahs, I have been saying this for a long time on the forum and PN has left it very late.

2 Yarmooks basically have no ship borne choppers and MILGEMS will be here soon. Takes at least a few years to order these, get them delivered and get trained pilots/navs up to speed. We have not even started the process.

 

[Blacklight]

We have not even started the process.

Really ?

 

[Yasser76]

Really ?

Do you know anything to the contrary?

 

[Cool_Soldier]

I believe process was started back in few years about such ships based helicopters. Once ships starts being inducted, you will see helicopters on them.

 

[Yasser76]

I believe process was started back in few years about such ships based helicopters. Once ships starts being inducted, you will see helicopters on them.

If true great news!

 

[GriffinsRule]

This is a really smart purchase by PN. Earlier this year I was also advocating for them to buy Canadian Seakings that were retired as well to shore up both ASW and assault capabilities for the Navy and Marines. The purchase of the two Commando variants from Britain made sense as well and was inline with the ex-chief who mentioned the increase in the force numbers.

@Yasser76 SeaKings are better suited then the Mi-17s for assault as far the navy is concerned both for it's longer range, greater payload and ability to perform over bodies of water (as well as having to ditch in the ocean in case of emergency).

PN also has not had any frontline frigates that could take the Speaking for ASW missions due to its size. They are chiefly operated from the shore though can be accommodated on larger supply vessels which very well will be out to sea during any conflict and will need protection from ships and subs.

Thus imo the requirements are different for a shipborne helicopter like the Z-9 vs a larger and more capable one in the Seaking or AW101 size. This purchase certainly relieves some pressure on the existing fleet which must have to contend with age and serviceability. It also buys us time to find a replacement and we might have more than just two options in another decade besides 101 or NH90.

Smart acquisition overall

 

[Gripen9]

This is a really smart purchase by PN. Earlier this year I was also advocating for them to buy Canadian Seakings that were retired as well to shore up both ASW and assault capabilities for the Navy and Marines. The purchase of the two Commando variants from Britain made sense as well and was inline with the ex-chief who mentioned the increase in the force numbers.

@Yasser76 SeaKings are better suited then the Mi-17s for assault as far the navy is concerned both for it's longer range, greater payload and ability to perform over bodies of water (as well as having to ditch in the ocean in case of emergency).

PN also has not had any frontline frigates that could take the Speaking for ASW missions due to its size. They are chiefly operated from the shore though can be accommodated on larger supply vessels which very well will be out to sea during any conflict and will need protection from ships and subs.

Thus imo the requirements are different for a shipborne helicopter like the Z-9 vs a larger and more capable one in the Seaking or AW101 size. This purchase certainly relieves some pressure on the existing fleet which must have to contend with age and serviceability. It also buys us time to find a replacement and we might have more than just two options in another decade besides 101 or NH90.

Smart acquisition overall

Neither the ones acquired from UK a few years back nor the ones recently bought from Qatar are ASW variants. They will be good for troop transport (marines) and general utility duties.
5 Qatari Commando variants are configured for ASV duties.
Only the initial 6 that PN bought in 1975 are the true ASW variants with surface search radar and Plessey dipping sonars.

I do not believe PN is looking at refitting the qatari 'kings for true ASW duties.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Neither the ones acquired from UK a few years back nor the ones recently bought from Qatar are ASW variants. They will be good for troop transport (marines) and general utility duties.
5 Qatari Commando variants are configured for ASV duties.
Only the initial 6 that PN bought in 1975 are the true ASW variants with surface search radar and Plessey dipping sonars.

I do not believe PN is looking at refitting the qatari 'kings for true ASW duties.

I think the net-new ASW capability will come through the smaller shipborne helicopters, at least for now. The ASW-capable AW101 and NH-90 are very expensive, so the PN is clearly buying time with the Sea Kings.

OTOH the AW149 is like $45-50 m per unit all-in, which is pretty good.

 

[ali_raza]

Neither the ones acquired from UK a few years back nor the ones recently bought from Qatar are ASW variants. They will be good for troop transport (marines) and general utility duties.
5 Qatari Commando variants are configured for ASV duties.
Only the initial 6 that PN bought in 1975 are the true ASW variants with surface search radar and Plessey dipping sonars.

I do not believe PN is looking at refitting the qatari 'kings for true ASW duties.

there are 5 dedicated asw hellos in qatari fleet capable pf firing harpoons and sea search radar

 

[Gripen9]

there are 5 dedicated asw hellos in qatari fleet capable pf firing harpoons and sea search radar

Anti Surface Vessel (ASV) yes, not ASW (Anti Submarine Warfare). Equipped to fire Exocets not Harpoons.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Seems like a wonderful addition , seems like a great upgrade over what we had before for Navy

 

[khanasifm]