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Featured Pakistan Navy prevented Indian Submarine from entering into Pakistani waters on 16th October

Killing soldiers on the LOC is one thing....shooting down a MIG21 is also not that much.... However Submarines are in a different domain altogether.... Sinking a submarine means several hundred millions or billions of dollars, hundreds of lives and the added cost and fallout of nuclear weapons at the sea floor, all this can make an already tense situation spiral out of control...
On the positive side, the sub crew and the IN know for sure that this sub is as good as gone on this war patrol... You can well imagine the mental stress this sub crew had to face with a PN aircraft armed with anti ship missiles hovering overhead. The same stress traveled throughout IN high command.
However, we should all remember as well... That such intercepts are the terminating point of a long chase, preceded by solid ELINT, possible preceded by HUMINT.... Point is, an interception means that everything in the chain has been verified, such intercepts provide valuable Intel of all types to us which will surely help us in hunting these subs down effectively in future... Along with providing our anti sub crewmen with valuable, near war like experience instead of a simple simulation.
 
Killing soldiers on the LOC is one thing....shooting down a MIG21 is also not that much.... However Submarines are in a different domain altogether.... Sinking a submarine means several hundred millions or billions of dollars, hundreds of lives and the added cost and fallout of nuclear weapons at the sea floor, all this can make an already tense situation spiral out of control...
On the positive side, the sub crew and the IN know for sure that this sub is as good as gone on this war patrol... You can well imagine the mental stress this sub crew had to face with a PN aircraft armed with anti ship missiles hovering overhead. The same stress traveled throughout IN high command.

Salam.
You are right. There are rules of engagement dictated by how you maneuver and what kind of posture you take. And the call to engage comes from high above where sound minds calculate possible fallouts and repercussions. In peacetime every effort is made to not escalate. Sadly the IAF did not follow protocol when they shot down our Navy's surveillance aircraft. Unprofessional and stupid to be honest.

When a submarine is forced to come to periscope depth then that's the ultimate checkmate.

The submarine is always listening and a message is broadcasted that it has to surface and the captain of the boat knows the protocol is to do exactly that otherwise he will have some 'knocking' coming his way next.
 
Not sure if anyone cares but using some triangles:
1634658355997.png


The aircraft is flying 4,668 ft and the sensor is looking at the target 19,032 ft away.




1634659057822.png

The aircraft is flying 5,108 ft and the sensor is looking at the target 12,712 ft away.


This is basically right on top of the submarine. Must have been funny for the submariners lol.
 
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Salam.
You are right. There are rules of engagement dictated by how you maneuver and what kind of posture you take. And the call to engage comes from high above where sound minds calculate possible fallouts and repercussions. In peacetime every effort is made to not escalate. Sadly the IAF did not follow protocol when they shot down our Navy's surveillance aircraft. Unprofessional and stupid to be honest.

When a submarine is forced to come to periscope depth then that's the ultimate checkmate.

The submarine is always listening and a message is broadcasted that it has to surface and the captain of the boat knows the protocol is to do exactly that otherwise he will have some 'knocking' coming his way next.
Exactly.... I would have liked for this sub to be caught in our territorial waters... If then caught, either it would have been sunk or would have ban taken to port in case of weak batteries...
 
one usually probes for weakness not display ones own like a moron 😂. Our MPAs are getting some good data for future references. Now every time they are discovered they give off more data which can be used to detect them in future. If anything Indians are helping us build threat library.
I dont want to speak for the original member, but what he/she might be stating is that Subs that dont want to be detected stay submerged and don't snorkel. The purpose of this act might be more political. I also agree that snorkeling in this manner is not prudent. PN ASW systems likely dropped hydrophones and picked up as much as they could. So unless sub was forced to snorkel to avoid getting blown out, that act of snorkeling is a bit strange, unless it was deliberate.

If the vessel is in our EEZ normal action (in non-war scenario) is to engage and guide asset out or give permission for navigation through. This requires the vessel to show itself and state its purpose. However under International Maritime Navigation Law a vessel is allowed to traverse EEZ if its intention is purely navigation (from one point to another) and no one can stop that, nor is permission required. I have no way of confirming this, but my sense is that the sub snorkeled to allow it to navigate the EEZ, or conversely it was given a forceful knock to surface "or else" upon detection.

It likely did not get permission to navigate the EEZ so prob made a small ingress and then moved out, or was detected well into its act of ingress or act of traversing the EEZ (and probably surfaced to make a point, we did what we needed to and you should know it). So detection was not something big here (if sub had already surfaced), outside of the fact that ASW assets were there to begin with. Or if the sub was detected outside of EEZ and given a knock as soon as it came into or close to EEZ - that would be a solid win. Given the limited nature of information we cannot be certain how this played out and I for one will not have happy ears or extend false platitudes. Something is not right here and more information is needed to make a good assessment which we all our unlikely to get. I am certain many such ingresses do go completely undetected as the expanse of open sea in our EEZ is too large to effectively monitor. I doubt PN has hydrophone based sensor network deployed across the EEZ. That is a possibility and if so that would be awesome! Though again complete conjecture on this capability.

I think India is also sending a message. It is putting out there for the world and shipping channels the real threat it poses to Pakistani water navigation. It will leverage these very images to make shipping insurance impossible and difficult in a state of hot war or some pre-war tension. Which also speaks to the importance of PNSC, because few will venture these waters in the case of war outside of our owned flagged operations. This aggressive submarine patrolling speaks to the aggression of India. I for one would be comfortable if Pakistani subs were detected off Indias' coast every week. It is a psychological jolt to any nation of subs operating so close to its waters.

My other concern is Indian sub being used to make coastal drops of weapons and people especially in Baluchistan. That is my biggest concern here, which is why Pakistan needs to elucidate a policy of greater aggression and make our Coastal areas hot fire zones for non-detected / sub-surface vessels.
 
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This is unacceptable behavior of our forces. I can't believe that they left another Indian submarine unharmed. This is too defensive. playing defensive every time, this is just embarrassing and unacceptable.
Indians usually use this tactic to divert attention. before Balakot, they used same tactic. I believe they are thinking about opportunities that we are providing to them. It's also possible that this submarine intentionally surfaced just to allow another Indian submarine to enter Pakistani waters quietly. We should worry but I am totally disappointed with the behavior of our armed forces. This is unacceptable and this behavior might cost us later.

I am praying that better and aggressive people will take charge of this country but i know, something big will happen and Obviously India has free license. Nobody will stop India from attacking Pakistan this time. I want to write more but i am very disappointed and I can only pray because This is unacceptable.
 
During the prevailing security milieu, a strict monitoring watch has been kept by Pakistan Navy to safeguard maritime frontiers of Pakistan. It is the third incident of its kind wherein, an Indian Naval Submarine has been prematurely detected and tracked by PN Long Range Maritime Patrol Aircraft.
The recent incident reflects the deplorable Indian machinations vis-à-vis commitment and resolve of Pakistan Navy to defend maritime frontiers of the Motherland.


Indian Navy must be doing survey of littoral water, to understand how they can use terrain to avoid detection during war time with Pakistan..
Pakistan should do the same close to major indian zones
 
I dont want to speak for the original member, but what he/she might be stating is that Subs that dont want to be detected stay submerged and dont snorkel. The purpose of this act might be more political. I also agree that snorkeling in this manner is not prudent. PN ASW systems likely dropped hydrophones and picked up as much as they could. So unless sub was forced to snorkel to avoid getting blown out, that act of snorkeling is a bit strange.
Probably trying to hide the embarrassment otherwise why try to enter Pakistan waters in first place. If it is being done on purpose then its childish attitude.
 
There are no insurgencies in NATO or America. If you mean controlling an insurgency in a random country 10,000km away then no, no country can do that. Though while NATO forces were in Afghanistan, the Taliban had no power. So NATO can stop a very popular insurgency and occupy a whole country against its will. However, once they are no longer interested in doing so, obviously the insurgency will bounce back.
Oh dear ... so even nato admits that they controlled the major cities and taliban controlled the countryside but you say the opposite. There is no point here
 
Killing soldiers on the LOC is one thing....shooting down a MIG21 is also not that much.... However Submarines are in a different domain altogether.... Sinking a submarine means several hundred millions or billions of dollars, hundreds of lives and the added cost and fallout of nuclear weapons at the sea floor, all this can make an already tense situation spiral out of control...
On the positive side, the sub crew and the IN know for sure that this sub is as good as gone on this war patrol... You can well imagine the mental stress this sub crew had to face with a PN aircraft armed with anti ship missiles hovering overhead. The same stress traveled throughout IN high command.

People would know what it was carrying and if it were carrying nuclear arsenal, it would not make it thus far it did.

The news also coincided with growing media coverage on Pakistan's naval capabilities.

I am sure Zaid Hamid was blaring from PN craft hovering above but this would get written as opportunity not explored by PN like PaF in Feb 2019. They did a whole campaign about no means no in India to no avail ab kia Lahore dekar hi larna hai?
 
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