Pakistan Navy P-3C Orion Thread

[Viper0011.]

Impressive list! Music to the ears.
Got the money for all that? Because at present we sure dont! In long run, navy is modernizing albeit at slow pace. Based on its paltry budget they're still on the right path.
By the way there are more than 2 AEW&C aircrafts for maritime patrol

Your coastline will require at least Three-Four AWACS if you guys really want to do it right and you'll need backups too. You'll need jets for escorting the AWACS and these shouldn't be counted in the Naval Air Arm that I referred to above. This should be a separate squadron.
Or you could develop a UAV type of a platform and mount Chinese radars on it. Let the whole thing be cheaper with decent AEW options.
For financing, the US's already been giving you guys billions since the inception of Pakistan. The US's also helped run your governments for decades and has spent trillions over decades for the welfare of the Pakistani people like education, trade, medical, water, roads, etc, etc. But when it comes to it, you guys hate the US for absolutely no reason. So not sure how the US would like to finance these expensive toys for you guys. I really think the average Pakistanis should reduce negativity towards the US and work with each other positively to GROW and ADVANCE Pakistan, its people, economy, infrastructure, health, education, etc. It's easy to sit in a backward running economy or system and blame the US for everything while honestly, the US provided more for Pakistan and its people than ANY of the political party or government of Pakistan for its people. Sad to see the negative sentiment. Yes, there will be ups and downs but look at the previous statements. Your own politicians and governments screwed your country over, many times over but you guys still elect them idiots. But a country who's always tried to support you, you guys hate due to a few incidents but keep giving these corrupt idiots more and more chances to screw their people. Beyond me how you guys think.
But back to the question, if you guys bring real democracy this time, vote for the right person and make sure that people elected take your country towards modernization and economic growth and religious tolerance and group tolerance, I can assure you that the US would love to help you by investing. A stronger, modern civil and extremism free Pakistan is in the US's best interest (just like Turkey and Malaysis). Two good governments in Pakistan and you can buy all the fancy toys I listed above yourself due to the economic growth and prosperity you'll see in just 10 years. So soften your heart for the US and get rid of corrupt, extremism from your society. You'll see a financially set Pakistan within the next 10-15 years and the US and its people will standby you and help you grow.

 

[Penguin]

Fiscal Year: 2006 Country: PAKISTAN Implementing Agency: Department of the Navy
Type of Transfer: Grant Authority
Item: P-3B(H) AIRCRAFT Model: P-3B National Stock Number:

Congressional Notification Sent: 4/19/2006 Quantity Allocated: 5 Unit Acquisition Value: 8300000
Congressional Expiration: 5/19/2006 Quantity Accepted: 0 Total Acquisition Value: 41500000
Authorized to Supply: 5/30/2006 Quantity Rejected: 0 Unit Current Value: 833300
EDA Accepted: 7/15/2008 Total Quantity Delivered: 5 Total Current Value: 4166500
EDA Rejected: no Delivery Acquisition Value: 41500000
EDA Cancelled: no Delivery Current Value: 4150000

according to the EDA bulletin board, 5 P-3C(H) aircraft have been allocated to PK. these were to be fitted with the Hawkeye-2000 AEWS. since no FMS funds are available, it is very likely that at least two P-3B(H) aircraft may be converted to P-3C 'Orion' standard and delivered to PK .

Fiscal Year: 2004 Country: PAKISTAN Implementing Agency: Department of the Navy
Type of Transfer: Grant Authority
Item: P-3 AIRCRAFT Model: P-3 National Stock Number:
Congressional Notification Sent: 11/19/2004 Quantity Allocated: 8 Unit Acquisition Value: 10800000
Congressional Expiration: 12/19/2004 Quantity Accepted: 8 Total Acquisition Value: 86400000
Authorized to Supply: 12/15/2004 Quantity Rejected: 0 Unit Current Value: 1080000
EDA Accepted: 10/7/2005 Total Quantity Delivered: 8 Total Current Value: 8640000
EDA Rejected: Delivery Acquisition Value: 86400000
EDA Cancelled: Delivery Current Value: 8640000

Fiscal Year: 2006 Country: PAKISTAN Implementing Agency: Department of the Navy
Type of Transfer: Grant Authority
Item: P-3B(H) AIRCRAFT Model: P-3B National Stock Number:
Congressional Notification Sent: 4/19/2006 Quantity Allocated: 5 Unit Acquisition Value: 8300000
Congressional Expiration: 5/19/2006 Quantity Accepted: 0 Total Acquisition Value: 41500000
Authorized to Supply: 5/30/2006 Quantity Rejected: 0 Unit Current Value: 833300
EDA Accepted: 7/15/2008 Total Quantity Delivered: 5 Total Current Value: 4166500
EDA Rejected: Delivery Acquisition Value: 41500000
EDA Cancelled: Delivery Current Value: 4150000

Both: results

There are/were as many as 135 P-3s in storage in Arizona (AMARC)... of which some 23 are P-3As, 41 are P-3Bs, 61 are P-3Cs, 7 are P-3Ds, 2 are P-3E and one is a P-3J. Rather than convert Bs to Cs it is probably more likely that alternate aircraft would be reactivated.

No (0x) recorded P-3B withdrawals for Pakistan

10x P-3C Orion withdrawn for Pakistan (3+7):
Serial PCN Code CN Unit Arrival Notes Departure Disposition
159505 AN2P0174 PJ-505 5623 VP-69, NAS Whidbey Island, WA. 30-MAY-1996 Unknown To Lockheed Martin Aircraft and Logistics Center, Greenville, SC. FMS to Pakistan as 85.
159508 AN2P0178 5626 VP-94, NAS New Orleans, LA. 17-SEP-1996 Unknown To Lockheed Martin Aircraft and Logistics Center, Greenville, SC. FMS to Pakistan as 88.
159510 AN2P0175 PJ-510 5628 VP-69, NAS Whidbey Island, WA. 30-MAY-1996 Unknown To Lockheed Martin Aircraft and Logistics Center, Greenville, SC. FMS to Pakistan as 87.
159511 AN2P0165 02 5629 VP-92, NAS Brunswick, ME. 13-JUL-1995 Unknown To Lockheed Martin Aircraft and Logistics Center, Greenville, SC. FMS to Pakistan as 86.
159883 AN2P0171 5634 VP-69, NAS Whidbey Island, WA. 21-SEP-1995 Unknown To Lockheed Martin Aircraft and Logistics Center, Greenville, SC. FMS to Pakistan as 84.
159890 AN2P0166 5641 VP-69, NAS Whidbey Island, WA. 10-AUG-1995 Unknown To Lockheed Martin Aircraft and Logistics Center, Greenville, SC. FMS to Pakistan as 90.
160289 AN2P0184 LL-11 5652 VP-30, NAS Jacksonville, FL. 16-DEC-1997 Unknown To Lockheed Martin Aircraft and Logistics Center, Greenville, SC. FMS to Pakistan as 89.
164467 AN2P0075 5825 22-JAN-1992 15-JAN-1997 To Pakistan as 25.
164468 AN2P0076 5826 22-JAN-1992 08-JAN-1997 To Pakistan as 27.
164469 AN2P0077 5827 22-JAN-1992 19-NOV-1996 To Pakistan as 23.

AMARC Experience - AMARC Experience

 

[fatman17]

P-3C Vs. P-8I: India, Pakistan And The Naval Balance – Analysis


By IPCS

By Vijay Sakhuja


Naval aviation is an important part of the naval strategy of India and Pakistan. The Pakistan navy took the lead in the sub-continent in terms of introducing the Atlantique long-range maritime reconnaissance aircraft and Sea King helicopters fitted with anti-ship missiles. It also acquired the US supplied P3C Orion with Harpoon missiles.

Although the Indian naval leadership had acknowledged the role of and the need for long-range maritime patrol (LRMP) aircraft as force multipliers, these platforms were late entrants in the Indian naval force structure. The current Indian LRMP inventory comprises of the Russian origin Tupolev-142 and Ilyushin-38, which have been upgraded; and a few Dornier aircraft. There have been attempts to fit missiles on some of these platforms with mixed results.

In 2009, India signed a contract worth US$ 3.9 billion with Boeing to supply 8 P-8 Multimission Maritime Aircraft (MMA). The first P-8I (I for the Indian variant) was handed over to the Indian navy in December 2012 and is currently undergoing trials and crew training. The balance seven aircraft will be delivered in 2013 (two) and 2015 (seven). India is the first international customer for the P-8, and the acquisition of the platform is a good example of the growing Indo-US naval cooperation.

The on-board equipment of the P-8I is similar to that of the P-8A of the US navy, but a number of equipment and sub-assemblies developed by Indian Defence Public Sector Undertaking (DPSU) and private companies have been fitted. The P-8I has a range of over 1200 nautical miles, is capable of in-flight refuelling, and can remain on task at a station for 4 hours. Its weapon suite includes the Harpoon Block II anti-ship missile, Mk-54 torpedoes, and depth charges.

The Harpoon missile is not new to the Indian sub-continent and therefore merits attention. In 2005, the US transferred nine P3C Orion aircraft and 60 Harpoon (40 air-launched and 20 ship launched) missiles to Pakistan. The total package – including a ‘close-in-weapon system’ was worth US$ 970 million. There were concerns among Indian naval planners, as the US had defended the sale of the hardware citing Pakistan’s legitimate self-defence capability.

In May 2011, two Pakistan navy P3C Orion aircraft were destroyed in a terrorist attack on PNS Mehran naval airbase in Karachi. During the 21st meeting of the US-Pakistan Defence Consultative Group (DCG) in December 2012, Pakistan had requested the US for replacements of the P3C Orion aircraft to make up for the losses and it was noted, “The provision of three or four more such aircraft would also help increase the counterterrorism capacity of Pakistani navy.”

The P-8I aircraft is designed for a number of roles and missions including surveillance, reconnaissance, detection, and prosecution of surface and subsurface targets at sea, imaging targets in the littorals, and search and rescue. The Arabian Sea is likely to be high on Indian navy’s deployment priorities where it must contend with the Pakistan navy.

The Pakistan navy has acquired Augusta 90 B submarines fitted with AIP system and there are plans to equip these platforms with Harpoon Block II missiles. Interestingly, the Pakistan naval leadership has noted that these submarines can be modified to deliver nuclear weapons. There have been speculations that Israel may have developed technological capability to miniaturise a nuclear warhead to be fitted on a Harpoon missile. Apparently, the US navy had spotted missiles being tested by an Israeli submarine in the Indian Ocean. It is quite unlikely that Pakistan has the technological knowhow to develop a miniaturised nuclear warhead of such sophistication unless it can obtain assistance from China, which has supported its nuclear weapons programme.

At another level, it is interesting that the Indian navy did not explore the possibility of equipping the P-8I with the Brahmos missile. There could have been at least two reasons: first, the Brahmos is a joint project of the Indian and Russian companies called Brahmos Aerospace, and there may be contractual limitations precluding its fitment on US origin platforms. Second, India has been attempting to diversify its military acquisitions to avoid overdependence on a single source; and in that context, the US naval hardware is a good alternative.

Finally, the P-8I is a significant addition to the Indian navy’s armoury. It is a force multiplier and can significantly augment the maritime air surveillance, reconnaissance, and combat capabilities of the Indian navy. It would have to be cleverly deployed keeping in mind that the Pakistan navy is also equipped with Harpoon missiles and has a good knowledge of the missile’s technical parameters and exploitation doctrine. However, the P-8I is a technologically advanced platform as compared to the P3C Orion, and can offer technological edge over the Pakistan navy.

Vijay Sakhuja
Director (Research), Indian Council of World Affairs, New Delhi
E-mail: Sakhuja.v@gmail.com

 

[S.U.R.B.]

P-3C Vs. P-8I: India, Pakistan And The Naval Balance – Analysis


By IPCS

By Vijay Sakhuja
.
.
.............. the technological knowhow to develop a miniaturised nuclear warhead of such sophistication unless it can obtain assistance from China, which has supported its nuclear weapons programme.

Nice comparative overview.Let's just keep the strip clean for the Orions. Since, the thread is quite a resource of information regarding the orions that Pakistan Navy operates.Thanks to the timely ,detailed and comprehensive input by you and other fellow members. The comparative analysis can find many other venues,i'm sure.

1

2

A humble request and also i don't feel compelled to share his (Vijay Sakhuja's) opinion regarding the quote mentioned above.

 

[michaeljordan]

Oh its great congrats to Pakistan navy !

 

[Nishan_101]

Both: results

There are/were as many as 135 P-3s in storage in Arizona (AMARC)... of which some 23 are P-3As, 41 are P-3Bs, 61 are P-3Cs, 7 are P-3Ds, 2 are P-3E and one is a P-3J. Rather than convert Bs to Cs it is probably more likely that alternate aircraft would be reactivated.

No (0x) recorded P-3B withdrawals for Pakistan

10x P-3C Orion withdrawn for Pakistan (3+7):
Serial PCN Code CN Unit Arrival Notes Departure Disposition
159505 AN2P0174 PJ-505 5623 VP-69, NAS Whidbey Island, WA. 30-MAY-1996 Unknown To Lockheed Martin Aircraft and Logistics Center, Greenville, SC. FMS to Pakistan as 85.
159508 AN2P0178 5626 VP-94, NAS New Orleans, LA. 17-SEP-1996 Unknown To Lockheed Martin Aircraft and Logistics Center, Greenville, SC. FMS to Pakistan as 88.
159510 AN2P0175 PJ-510 5628 VP-69, NAS Whidbey Island, WA. 30-MAY-1996 Unknown To Lockheed Martin Aircraft and Logistics Center, Greenville, SC. FMS to Pakistan as 87.
159511 AN2P0165 02 5629 VP-92, NAS Brunswick, ME. 13-JUL-1995 Unknown To Lockheed Martin Aircraft and Logistics Center, Greenville, SC. FMS to Pakistan as 86.
159883 AN2P0171 5634 VP-69, NAS Whidbey Island, WA. 21-SEP-1995 Unknown To Lockheed Martin Aircraft and Logistics Center, Greenville, SC. FMS to Pakistan as 84.
159890 AN2P0166 5641 VP-69, NAS Whidbey Island, WA. 10-AUG-1995 Unknown To Lockheed Martin Aircraft and Logistics Center, Greenville, SC. FMS to Pakistan as 90.
160289 AN2P0184 LL-11 5652 VP-30, NAS Jacksonville, FL. 16-DEC-1997 Unknown To Lockheed Martin Aircraft and Logistics Center, Greenville, SC. FMS to Pakistan as 89.
164467 AN2P0075 5825 22-JAN-1992 15-JAN-1997 To Pakistan as 25.
164468 AN2P0076 5826 22-JAN-1992 08-JAN-1997 To Pakistan as 27.
164469 AN2P0077 5827 22-JAN-1992 19-NOV-1996 To Pakistan as 23.

AMARC Experience - AMARC Experience

So are we getting more P-3Cs from USA along with 3 P-3C AEW&Cs? or USA looking to get back there free gifts to Pakistan....

I would rather say that PAF should concentrated more on getting some 11 Saab-2000 MPA and Saab-340 MPA with weapons capability and let the USA and NATO to put 20-40 0r even 60+ P-3Cs in African coastal regions where there is a need. And also not gone for OHPs though all were free of cost.

 

[Tajdar adil]

Can anyone tell me that how many p3s serving in Pak Navy...

 

[fatman17]

Can anyone tell me that how many p3s serving in Pak Navy...

3 original - 1 lost to attrition
7 subsequent - 2 lost to attrition

10 total - 3 lost.

 

[S.U.R.B.]

So are we getting more P-3Cs from USA along with 3 P-3C AEW&Cs? or USA looking to get back there free gifts to Pakistan....

I would rather say that PAF should concentrated more on getting some 11 Saab-2000 MPA and Saab-340 MPA with weapons capability and let the USA and NATO to put 20-40 0r even 60+ P-3Cs in African coastal regions where there is a need. And also not gone for OHPs though all were free of cost.

Brother you do understand that the P-3C orion are a part of the PN's air arm?

Rest of it i failed to understand your point.I wish @Penguin can.


======
As far as the number is concerned ,the goal to replace the loss was met.

 

[Penguin]

So are we getting more P-3Cs from USA along with 3 P-3C AEW&Cs? or USA looking to get back there free gifts to Pakistan....

I would rather say that PAF should concentrated more on getting some 11 Saab-2000 MPA and Saab-340 MPA with weapons capability and let the USA and NATO to put 20-40 0r even 60+ P-3Cs in African coastal regions where there is a need. And also not gone for OHPs though all were free of cost.

P3C MPA numbers delivered and losses as indicated above. Not sure if the P3Bs with Hawkeye AEW were ever delivered. There is no indication the US at any point wanted or intended to ´get back´ any of the Orions delivered (... so, I don´t understand why you ask this question). Also, I believe Pakistan BOUGHT those aircraft via the Foreign Military Sales program (i.e. with good financing terms, but no aid).

AMARC (where those Orions were sent) is a facility in the desert where decommissioned US aircraft are stored prior to disposal, which can be either sale or transfer to another user (military or civilian), or scrapping. None of these aircraft are in a state in which they can be deployed to anywhere.

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

Can anyone tell me that how many p3s serving in Pak Navy...

7 are currently in service

 

[Dazzler]

P3C MPA numbers delivered and losses as indicated above. Not sure if the P3Bs with Hawkeye AEW were ever delivered. There is no indication the US at any point wanted or intended to ´get back´ any of the Orions delivered (... so, I don´t understand why you ask this question). Also, I believe Pakistan BOUGHT those aircraft via the Foreign Military Sales program (i.e. with good financing terms, but no aid).

AMARC (where those Orions were sent) is a facility in the desert where decommissioned US aircraft are stored prior to disposal, which can be either sale or transfer to another user (military or civilian), or scrapping. None of these aircraft are in a state in which they can be deployed to anywhere.

P3B Hawkeye ordered so no point of it being delivered, instead, that role is inflicted upon ZDK-03.

 

[Tajdar adil]

Is china has that kind of technology..

 

[Nishan_101]

If we were buying all these second had then why not new ones like:

Saab-2000/ATR-72 Class ones
Saab-340/ATR-42 Class ones

 

[nomi007]