Pakistan Navy | News & Discussions.

[monitor]

Zero before the Chinese submarines are delivered in 2028. Plausible, though not S1000 specifically, when the time to replace the Agosta 70 and 90B submarines comes around the corner - i.e. 2030s.

I think if you want to get replacement for Agusta by 2030 we may see a order or selection process start around 2020-2025.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I think if you want to get replacement for Agusta by 2030 we may see a order or selection process start around 2020-2025.

No the PN will begin seeking a replacement for the Agosta 90Bs in the 2030s, so the boats would arrive closer to 2040. The Agosta 70s will likely be done in by the later Chinese submarines in 2028.

 

[JK!]

If the subs Pakistan procures end up being the S20 variant of the Type 039A subs they can be fitted with alternative AIP systems due to its modular design which includes foreign systems.

If this were the case where could Pakistan look at for these systems?

 

[Arsala.nKhan]

Nothing on Google regarding S1000 only news I found was in 2013

 

[fatman17]

What is the possibility of Pakistan procuring the S1000 class submarines from Italy or Russia?

Why

 

[fatman17]

 

[fatman17]

If the subs Pakistan procures end up being the S20 variant of the Type 039A subs they can be fitted with alternative AIP systems due to its modular design which includes foreign systems.

If this were the case where could Pakistan look at for these systems?

China makes as good a AIP system as the west.

 

[fatman17]

Since 1957
Karachi Shipyard & Engineering Works Limited
IMS Certified

Marching towards Self Reliance – Launching of 3rd FAC(M) and Keel Laying of 600 tons Maritime Patrol Vessel at KS&EW



Launching ceremony of 3rd Fast Attack Craft (Missile); FAC (M), being built for Pakistan Navy, and Keel laying of 600 tons Maritime Patrol Vessel (MPV), being built for Pakistan Maritime Security Agency (PMSA), was held at KS&EW on 17 Sept 2016. Admiral Muhammad Zakaullah, Chief of the Naval Staff graced the occasion as Chief Guest.

In his address on the occasion, the Naval Chief highly appreciated the simultaneous launching of 3rd FAC(M) and Keel Laying of 600 tons MPV and said that the accomplishment of these diverse milestones is indeed a loud manifestation of the indigenization policy of the government especially attaining self reliance in defence capabilities. He further acknowledged that presently 3 vessels are being constructed at KS&EW with the technical collaboration of Pakistan’s time tested friend China.

While highlighting Pakistan’s geostrategic importance, Admiral Zakaullah emphasized that induction of these vessels would not only enhance operational capability of Pakistan Navy and PMSA but also go a long way in ensuring maritime peace and stability in the region. The Naval Chief also highlighted the significance of China Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) for enhancing regional trade activity with Gwadar Port as the focal point. He underlined that accomplishment of CPEC will be a game changer with economic dividends not only for China and Pakistan but also for the entire region. “Providing a safe and secure maritime environment is pivotal to the success of CPEC and that Pakistan Navy is fully committed to this onerous task and a number of steps have been taken towards this end. The 3rd of the FAC(M) and MPVs, once fully operational, will contribute significantly towards ensuring maritime security in the area”, he said.

Earlier, MD KS&EW Rear Admiral Syed Hasan Nasir Shah, in his welcome address said that, presently KS&EW has number of shipbuilding orders and soon will be simultaneously constructing ships on all 3 slipways. While highlighting other production areas of KS&EW, he mentioned that graving docks are already booked for various ship repair activities till next year and recently established foundry has orders for 25 Sugar Mill Rollers, along with manufacturing of 7 cranes for Pakistan Railways. He informed that the Ship Lift & Transfer System is progressing satisfactorily and with its completion, KS&EW’s capacity of shipbuilding and ship repair would be enhanced from 5 to 18 ships at a time. This will significantly increase KS&EW revenue generation thereby enabling high tax return and resultantly more jobs.

The ceremony was attended by high ranking officials and dignitaries from China, Pakistan Navy, Government authorities and corporate sector.

 

[Zarvan]

Since 1957
Karachi Shipyard & Engineering Works Limited
IMS Certified

Marching towards Self Reliance – Launching of 3rd FAC(M) and Keel Laying of 600 tons Maritime Patrol Vessel at KS&EW



Launching ceremony of 3rd Fast Attack Craft (Missile); FAC (M), being built for Pakistan Navy, and Keel laying of 600 tons Maritime Patrol Vessel (MPV), being built for Pakistan Maritime Security Agency (PMSA), was held at KS&EW on 17 Sept 2016. Admiral Muhammad Zakaullah, Chief of the Naval Staff graced the occasion as Chief Guest.

In his address on the occasion, the Naval Chief highly appreciated the simultaneous launching of 3rd FAC(M) and Keel Laying of 600 tons MPV and said that the accomplishment of these diverse milestones is indeed a loud manifestation of the indigenization policy of the government especially attaining self reliance in defence capabilities. He further acknowledged that presently 3 vessels are being constructed at KS&EW with the technical collaboration of Pakistan’s time tested friend China.

While highlighting Pakistan’s geostrategic importance, Admiral Zakaullah emphasized that induction of these vessels would not only enhance operational capability of Pakistan Navy and PMSA but also go a long way in ensuring maritime peace and stability in the region. The Naval Chief also highlighted the significance of China Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) for enhancing regional trade activity with Gwadar Port as the focal point. He underlined that accomplishment of CPEC will be a game changer with economic dividends not only for China and Pakistan but also for the entire region. “Providing a safe and secure maritime environment is pivotal to the success of CPEC and that Pakistan Navy is fully committed to this onerous task and a number of steps have been taken towards this end. The 3rd of the FAC(M) and MPVs, once fully operational, will contribute significantly towards ensuring maritime security in the area”, he said.

Earlier, MD KS&EW Rear Admiral Syed Hasan Nasir Shah, in his welcome address said that, presently KS&EW has number of shipbuilding orders and soon will be simultaneously constructing ships on all 3 slipways. While highlighting other production areas of KS&EW, he mentioned that graving docks are already booked for various ship repair activities till next year and recently established foundry has orders for 25 Sugar Mill Rollers, along with manufacturing of 7 cranes for Pakistan Railways. He informed that the Ship Lift & Transfer System is progressing satisfactorily and with its completion, KS&EW’s capacity of shipbuilding and ship repair would be enhanced from 5 to 18 ships at a time. This will significantly increase KS&EW revenue generation thereby enabling high tax return and resultantly more jobs.

The ceremony was attended by high ranking officials and dignitaries from China, Pakistan Navy, Government authorities and corporate sector.

Is this agency other than Coast Guard I am talking about Pakistan Maritime Security Agency ?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

If the subs Pakistan procures end up being the S20 variant of the Type 039A subs they can be fitted with alternative AIP systems due to its modular design which includes foreign systems.

If this were the case where could Pakistan look at for these systems?

The AIP will probably be Chinese. It's just a question of if it will be China's existing Stirling AIP design or a different one, such as fuel-cell.

 

[Naif al Hilali]

The AIP will probably be Chinese. It's just a question of if it will be China's existing Stirling AIP design or a different one, such as fuel-cell.

Bismillah ir Rahman ar Raheem

Brother, I had one question for you. I have read on this forum that Stirling AIPs are better suited to colder waters but cannot find the reasoning behind this from either a thermal or acoustics viewpoint. Fuel cells seem to be the way for the future on all counts but why is a Stirling AIP deemed more detectable in warm waters than cold?

@Penguin also

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Bismillah ir Rahman ar Raheem

Brother, I had one question for you. I have read on this forum that Stirling AIPs are better suited to colder waters but cannot find the reasoning behind this from either a thermal or acoustics viewpoint. Fuel cells seem to be the way for the future on all counts but why is a Stirling AIP deemed more detectable in warm waters than cold?

@Penguin also

From what I can recall from earlier discussions...

In the abstract sense, the greater use of moving components in Stirling results in more vibrations (i.e. acoustics), and vibrations move faster in warm water. In the practical sense, it would depend on how much hotter the Arabian Sea actually is in comparison to the Pacific Ocean (namely the specific areas in which the PLAN's Yuan-class submarines operate).

 

[Penguin]

Bismillah ir Rahman ar Raheem

Brother, I had one question for you. I have read on this forum that Stirling AIPs are better suited to colder waters but cannot find the reasoning behind this from either a thermal or acoustics viewpoint. Fuel cells seem to be the way for the future on all counts but why is a Stirling AIP deemed more detectable in warm waters than cold?

@Penguin also

Thermal: See eg post #12 and on here:
https://defence.pk/threads/pakistan-navys-submarine-plans-s-20-vs-type-214.459191/#post-8885108

See here, heat sink and thermal efficiency.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stirling_engine#Key_components

Detectability:
A conventional submarine powered by AIP-Stirling can remain submerged for several weeks minimizing the risk of detection and increasing its stealth characteristics [by avoiding the need to snorkel as much as possible and spending as much time as deep as possible and as slow as tactically feasible].
Stirling-AIP works burning pure oxygen and diesel fuel in a pressurized combustion chamber. The combustion pressure is higher than the surrounding seawater pressure, thereby allowing the exhaust products, dissolved in seawater, to be discharged overboard without using a compressor. This procedure allows low infrared signature and noise emission levels
http://www.deagel.com/Submarine-Propulsion-Systems/Stirling-AIP_a001357001.aspx

I don't directly see how this would be affected by differences in ambient water or air temperature.

A key attraction in fuel cell systems is the virtual absence of moving parts in most key components, which makes them exceptionally quiet in terms of machinery noise compared to closed cycle diesel and turbine systems (including Sterling engines).
http://www.ausairpower.net/SP/DT-AIP-SSK-Dec-2010.pdf

 

[Naif al Hilali]

Thermal: See eg post #12 and on here:
https://defence.pk/threads/pakistan-navys-submarine-plans-s-20-vs-type-214.459191/#post-8885108

See here, heat sink and thermal efficiency.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stirling_engine#Key_components

Detectability:
A conventional submarine powered by AIP-Stirling can remain submerged for several weeks minimizing the risk of detection and increasing its stealth characteristics [by avoiding the need to snorkel as much as possible and spending as much time as deep as possible and as slow as tactically feasible].
Stirling-AIP works burning pure oxygen and diesel fuel in a pressurized combustion chamber. The combustion pressure is higher than the surrounding seawater pressure, thereby allowing the exhaust products, dissolved in seawater, to be discharged overboard without using a compressor. This procedure allows low infrared signature and noise emission levels
http://www.deagel.com/Submarine-Propulsion-Systems/Stirling-AIP_a001357001.aspx

I don't directly see how this would be affected by differences in ambient water or air temperature.

A key attraction in fuel cell systems is the virtual absence of moving parts in most key components, which makes them exceptionally quiet in terms of machinery noise compared to closed cycle diesel and turbine systems (including Sterling engines).
http://www.ausairpower.net/SP/DT-AIP-SSK-Dec-2010.pdf

Thanks sir; missed that post. I had the equivalent of deepwater thermocline being constant below 500 feet around the world in my mind and so my estimations were off.

"I don't directly see how this would be affected by differences in ambient water or air temperature."

Thanks

 

[fatman17]

Sea Platforms

Pakistan's maritime patrol vessels begin voyage home from China

Ridzwan Rahmat, Singapore - IHS Jane's Navy International

29 December 2016

A pair of 600-tonne Maritime Patrol Vessels (MPVs) newly commissioned by the Pakistan Maritime Security Agency (PMSA) have begun their voyage home, the service confirmed with IHS Jane's on 29 December.

The vessels, PMSS Hingol and PMSS Basol with pennant numbers 1070 and 1071 respectively, were commissioned on 11 December 2016 in Guangzhou, China. The platforms were built by China State Shipbuilding Corporation (CSSC).

Pakistan's Ministry of Defence signed a contract with China Shipbuilding Trading Company (CSTC), the trading arm of CSSC, in June 2015 for four 600-tonne, and two 1,500-tonne MPVs under a technology transfer arrangement.

Pakistan's Karachi Shipyard & Engineering Works (KSEW) is constructing one vessel of each type in-country with assistance from CSSC, with the remaining hulls made in China.