Pakistan may Purchase Chinese Surface-to-Air Missile System HQ-9

[帅的一匹]

I agree with you. When china itself has buy s 400 inspite of having HQ 9, it tells a story of its own. Yes, As you says, If Pakistan buys S 300, it will be very difficult for IAF to penetrate Pakistani sky. If Pakistan shows its intention, india will try to stop russia from selling it to pakistan like they stoped \US to sell F 16 to Pakistan.



But my choice is S300. That is very fast, has a long range , A great flight envalope and great accuracy and recognized by all. Turkey has already rejected HQ 9.

A ignorant is ranting here, what a joke. S300 is out in the first round, turkey is no fool.

 

[_NOBODY_]

I agree with you. When china itself has buy s 400 inspite of having HQ 9, it tells a story of its own. Yes, As you says, If Pakistan buys S 300, it will be very difficult for IAF to penetrate Pakistani sky. If Pakistan shows its intention, india will try to stop russia from selling it to pakistan like they stoped \US to sell F 16 to Pakistan.



But my choice is S300. That is very fast, has a long range , A great flight envalope and great accuracy and recognized by all. Turkey has already rejected HQ 9.

Turkey chose HQ-9 over Aster, MIM-104 and S-300 but Turkey rejected it due to NATO pressure and due to the refusal of China on TOT to extent that Turkey desired. Turkey had more than enough money to buy any of those air defense systems. Just how many times do I have to repeat this ?

 

[krash]

In early 2000s , India bought 6 batteries(18 launchers) of S300 PMU2, for $1 billion, for ABM purposes, in a hush hush deal .

One and half decade down the line, Pakistan is considering, buying a Chinese variant of S 300.

When India is about to conclude a deal for 5 regiments (or 60 launchers) of S400 missiles.

For Pakistan to posses a Chinese copy of S400 ,China will have to first buy S400 , then copy it and then sell it to Pakistan.

Considering the time line, India would have long since moved on to S500 or another advanced SAM.

Good! Given the IAF pilots' track record, you'll need them.

 

[Shabi1]

i think, that missile control regime prohibits sale over 300 km range sams, so we should get 299.99 km range sam

How to bypass export restrictions

Step One
Call the acquisition a joint venture.

Step Two
Rename the Missile used in HQ-9 after a Historical General

Step Three
Now you covertly assemble missiles from kits imported from China. And put a made in Pakistan sticker on it.


Let the haters hate.

 

[帅的一匹]

Turkey chose HQ-9 over Aster, MIM-104 and S-300 but Turkey rejected it due to NATO pressure and due to the refusal of China on TOT to extent that Turkey desired. Turkey had more than enough money to buy any of those air defense systems. Just how many times do I have to repeat this ?

He don't wanna believe cause he is biased.

 

[_NOBODY_]

Only problem with you guys is you talk too much for others. Keep your mouth shut and do talking only for you, and not for Chinese, Turkish and rest of the world.

My post isn't related to you and more importantly you have no damn right to tell me that what should I talk about on this forum. On this forum everyone discusses about any country they want to.

 

[Arsalan]

My post isn't related to you and more importantly you have no damn right to tell me that what should I talk about on this forum. On this forum everyone discusses about any country they want to.

There is a button on the bottom left side of each post reading "report" click on that for such posts. THERE IS NO NEED TOO reply to flaming. This is a proven tactic and the aim is just to derail the thread. we help achieve that goal by replying to such posts. JUST REPORT IT PLEASE.

 

[cabatli_53]

Turkey chose HQ-9 over Aster, MIM-104 and S-300 but Turkey rejected it due to NATO pressure and due to the refusal of China on TOT to extent that Turkey desired. Turkey had more than enough money to buy any of those air defense systems. Just how many times do I have to repeat this ?

The reason of Turkey's choice is about the lowest price and best ToT. It has nothing to do with technological ability of tenderer. What Turkey requested in T-LORAMIDS tender, which was cancelled, was satisfactory level of technology on lowest price. The background aim of this project was to accelerate development of domestic long altitude missile project based on received technology from the institute which is supposed to win the tender but After comprehensive meetings regarding the promised issues, The negotiations with China stopped and tender is totally cancelled.

The reason of cancellation:
-NATO pressures to sell a NATO based technology for integration to NATO network issues
-Not agreed on some critical technologies Turkey requested on missiles
-Pressures of domestic institutes, Aselsan/Roketsan. Those same institutes caused cancellation of other two strategic SAM tenders to commence development of their own solutions and They did the same and caused a new cancellation for commencement of domestic long altitude SAM missiles as a part of their Hisar family under family integrity principle.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

6 Battalions would be wonderful to cover all of eastern frontier of Pakistan / North and South
200 KM radius

10 Battalions will give us full coverage , every one loves full coverage



One Battalion would have

1 Command center
3 Radar/Targeting Units
4 Launchers (6 Missiles per launcher unit) : Total Missiles 24 Missiles


5 Battalions would give us 120 Missiles for Air Protection

10 Battalions looking at around 240 Missiles for east / western front

40 Launcher units

The Main coverage can be supplemented with further Medium range Battalions

Western Frontier might need extra 3 battalions of SAMs , which we could perhaps get at later time

• 10 Battalions would be enough for all Pakistan air space security
• 2 Extra batches can be for any identified gaps or disputed territories

These should end illegal incursion by unwanted folks

 

[dy1022]

The reason of Turkey's choice is about the lowest price and best ToT. It has nothing to do with technological ability of tenderer. What Turkey requested in T-LORAMIDS tender, which was cancelled, was satisfactory level of technology on lowest price. The background aim of this project was to accelerate development of domestic long altitude missile project based on received technology from the institute which is supposed to win the tender but After comprehensive meetings regarding the promised issues, The negotiations with China stopped and tender is totally cancelled.

The reason of cancellation:
-NATO pressures to sell a NATO based technology for integration to NATO network issues
-Not agreed on some critical technologies Turkey requested on missiles
-Pressures of domestic institutes, Aselsan/Roketsan. Those same institutes caused cancellation of other two strategic SAM tenders to commence development of their own solutions and They did the same and caused a new cancellation for commencement of domestic long altitude SAM missiles as a part of their Hisar family under family integrity principle.

There was a back to back testing in Turkey and HQ-9 wins at 10/10, HQ-9 is the best one !!!

Turkey asked China to sell 2 HQ-9 systems in the end of 2015 after Turkey shoots down Russian plane!

China refused to do TOT and sell HQ-9 to Turkey!

There is nothing Turkey can do about these in just 3.4 Billions , No one will do TOT, No one!!!

you can say whatever you want to say, but wait some more decades until the day that Turkey proves itself can make something similar as HQ-9 system!!!

Turkey is the one without any LRSM systems right now!

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

This should be higher priority over fighter jets for time being

10 Battalions , easy sleeping for General Sahib

 

[Dr Shaheryar]

1. We did go over the scenario, where India places , its S-400, a 100 Km from Pakistani border.
Even in that case, S400 theoretically covers 90% of Pakistani airbases.

2. Intelligence is a collective word, it has many components like HUMNIT, SIGNIT, ELINT.
Which intelligence are you, talking about, that will give you, pin point location of S400 batteries..be specific.

3. Which Pakistani early warning asset will detect a SAM and how?

4. 966AA14 a tower based radar, designed to track low flying objects lying cruise missiles, is part of S400 battery.
Plus it has Pantsir CIWS , for those low flying missiles and planes, that escape the S400s. On top of it India has deployed Aerostat Radars to detect those low flying missiles.

5. Can and will are very different things, and based on history, China has never, helped out in a conflict against India, Not even as recently as Kargil war.

6. Why can't S400's massive AESA radar, pick up a drone, when it can even detect a 0.4m2 target at 230 Kms.

7. What weapons is Pakistan considering, that will counter S400?

Most important of all will our radars not pick the SAM coming to hit our planes. We will sit ideally. Man you seriously don't know how war scenarios take place. Our SAM's will sit quietly while your SAM's will destroy our planes in Pakistan. Good One.

 

[New Resolve]

This should be higher priority over fighter jets for time being

10 Battalions , easy sleeping for General Sahib

I have a feeling a decisions already been made on this count and the F16 chapter has been closed. We will probably see HQ9 deployments starting next year.

 

[cabatli_53]

There was a back to back testing in Turkey and HQ-9 wins at 10/10, HQ-9 is the best one !!!

Turkey asked China to sell 2 HQ-9 systems in the end of 2015 after Turkey shoots down Russian plane!

China refused to do TOT and sell HQ-9 to Turkey!

There is nothing Turkey can do about these in just 3.4 Billions , No one will do TOT, No one!!!

you can say whatever you want to say, but wait some more decades until the day that Turkey proves itself can make something similar as HQ-9 system!!!

Turkey is the one without any LRSM systems right now!

I don't know which part of my point to point remarks make you disturb but It is for sure that You should learn the procurement system and tender processes before talking like a blind nationalist on such subjects.

The tenders proceed that way.

1- Countries releases RfI to all World institutes who is willing to join into tender.
2-The institutes who wants to be a part of this tender pay some money around 5000 or 10000$ to to take the tender documents to reach the details and specific requirements.
3-Institutes prepare their offers in accordance with tender papers requirements and transmit to costumers procurement departments.
4-Costumer list all tenderer from one to second, third in accordance with criteria established on tender papers and announce them for start negotiations with first institute.

At T-LORAMIDS tender, The tenderer are listed as following,

1-China offered a solution with %40 ToT worth 3,44 billion $
2-EuroSAM offered a solution worth 4,5 billion $ for Aster-30 batteries
3-Raytheon/Lockheed offered worth 4,5 billion $ for PAC-3+ batteries

In this circumstances,

-3,4billion $ was a Chinese offer/promise with %40 offset ToT at the beginning of tender process. The offers and institute promises has nothing to do with Turkey (You don't even have any idea about it). When negotiations commenced, Turkey visited Chinese institute and They made a firing trial against a drone successfully. During negotiation phase(+changing politic environment), It is agreed that China is not willing to release required technologies that was promised by themselves at the beginning of tender so It is understood that Working with China in this project is not necessary. It was ToT issue with lower price lead Turkish officials to rank CPIMEC first line but Without ToT, Requesting a system worth billion $ from China means to shot in own foot, While proven systems like Aster-30 and Pac-3 is staying in same tender so, Noone can tell me "HQ-9 is superior to Western equivalents so eliminated them in Turkey's tender". Such statements are just made by such fanboys who don't even have any idea about basic information about processes.

-Turkey did not request any HQ-9 under direct procurement project model before and after 2015. Stop generating elements from your minds. If you have some source, Support your claims.

-Turkey's domestic efforts for such missile developments are out of your comprehension limits so I advice you to focus on the subjects that you have some basic information. Talking about a subject that you don't have any idea, will just serve to look you like an ignorant member.

 

[vizier]

Main airbases, nuclear sites and early warning radars are initial targets possibly a covert stealth-jamming-blitz attack to decapitate your mainline defenses(and offenses) such as fighter aircraft. HQ 9 would work to protect against this type of blitz decapitation attack against your defenses. Long range would filter out those threats against a blitz decapitation attack by enemy fighters.So several batteries are enough and no need to cover whole Pakistani territory.

You can buffer the border zone with India with medium range sams similar to Buk/KS 1-A. The radars can be alerted by early warning well protected radars behind and open showing themselves when enemy within range and after taking out those targets relocate. Similar to medieval infantry hiding spears on ground when cavalry approaches raise those spears to trap the incoming horseman. It would be a great equalizer against higher opposing aircraft ratio.

Inside borders and large areas can then be defended by your interceptors fighters much more effectively.Also more multirole fighters can be allocated for attack missions inside enemy territory.