Pakistan – Israel Ties, Relations and Recognition

[ISI-1]

Are you sure you're not talking about Iran?

Sure it's phony, exposed many years ago and acknowledged as such by Pakistan's generals: link.

You are confusing what facts are with what you want them to be to craft hatred against Jews who are innocent of the intentions you attach to them; the people of Pakistan are your intended victims, as you seek to inflame them from peace to conflict. This is not healthy for Pakistan at all:

...The reason we need to desist from the tendency to believe in conspiracy theories is that they exonerate leaders, government servants and decision-makers actually responsible for running state affairs...Blaming external forces for all the ills this country is plagued with, shields inefficient leaders. ...Instead of formulating conspiracy theories, we must look into ourselves and see what we have done wrong — and learn from those mistakes.​

So perhaps the very best reason for Pakistan recognizing Israel and opening up friendly diplomatic relations with it is that it will serve as a kind of knife to excise all this conspiracy cr*p from Pakistanis' minds, with.better governance as the result.

According to your own argument, this rule can be applied to the supposed 'extermination of Zionist (jews)' in Germany. That too was the biggest conspiracy of all, a mother of all conspiracies! This evil of AskeNAZI Zionists run deep, simply unfathomable and these scum need to be eradicated for real this time, evil killers from Eastern Europe and elsewhere who've tarnished the image of good pure Jews. So stop crying, and accept the facts, facts which will always be denied by shallow minded, bigoted, land grabbiing, murderous Zionists lke yourself, occupiers of a land legitamately belonging to the Palestinians!

Finally Someone is Alive, its nice to see someone is having courage and hope. This is what makes Pakistan unique.



Every Muslim nation had fallen till its knees against Zionist nation, Only Iran and Pakistan are remaining and trust me we must co-operate if we want to stay protected!.

Worry not. Alhumdulillah, Pakistan was created for this very purpose - to dispel any fear and illegitimate actions of the Zionists (fake Jews)! Read upvarious hadith and Islamic writings and indeed you'll know what Pakistan stands for, and what its destiny is - simply put, its inception was for no other reason but to challenge and take down two of the present day evil regimes/people - the ZIONIST a.k.a the fake Jews of the illegal Zionist state occupying a land legitimately belonging to the Palestinians and the other, the Zionists Hindus of AL-Hind. InshaALLAH, truth or Haq will prevail.

 

[Azadkashmir]

fuk these interloper and rothschilds, british empire was rothschild empire. Jew david sassoon the world biggest drug dealer made huge profit enslaving indian subcontinent including china. He married into the rothschilds. all gold and silver precious metals was taken from subcontinet on ships this is what made england rich.

read about 13 blood line families of bankers.


germans allowed these jew to thrive and they backstabbed germany

today america is that germany, americans have given the jews all the american dream opportunity but they are bankrupting america morally and finacially.

it all in thier talmud to hate goyum, the bolshaveik revolution was a jewish zionist revolution which killed millions of russian then china too. the jews were in the top rank making all the important decisions.

 

[Solomon2]

After 60 Years We Are Still Standing Tall.But A Zionist Mouthpiece Like You Would Never Ever Understand Our Story Of Survival

Did Pakistan survive?

Since over half the population seceded and many of the rights and liberties Pakistanis once enjoyed have vanished?

If Jinnah returned from the dead today would he recognize a Pakistan of 1947 that has advanced his dream of providing India's Muslims lives of peace, justice, and material fulfillment?

Or would he recognize the state of his nightmares, with communities fearful of the intolerant and even his own Shia minority under threat from their fellow Pakistanis? Less a republic of free men and more like a country dominated by zombies?

 

[The Eagle]

Or would he recognize the state of his nightmares, with communities fearful of the intolerant and even his own Shia minority under threat from their fellow Pakistanis? Less a republic of free men and more like a country dominated by zombies?

The best a propagandist can do..... You are insulting Pakistanis again here..... But no, we will not stoop to your level. Trying to flame the situation through a sectarian propaganda is also not new from the most hypocrisy state. Pakistan still remember the speech of that Israeli official that poised against Pakistan and calling it the most threat. Also, the day when Israel planned to attack Pakistan in 1998.

Who you are calling zombies here and less a republic????? Red highlighted part though the post is nothing but a rant. The famous occupiers even declared by UN and war criminals, having innocent's blood on hands and all atrocities, is here calling us less republic and zombies while psychologically twisting the facts and attaching all with Jinnah and Shia..... Why such sympathy with Shia in this post yet threatening Iran every now & then and cursing Shia in Palestine, indeed hypocrisy at large.

Any explanation for highlighted part and insults?

 

[Valar Dohaeris]

There is nothing practical for Pakistan in relations with Israel. So, thank you but no thanks.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Did Pakistan survive?

Since over half the population seceded and many of the rights and liberties Pakistanis once enjoyed have vanished?

If Jinnah returned from the dead today would he recognize a Pakistan of 1947 that has advanced his dream of providing India's Muslims lives of peace, justice, and material fulfillment?

Or would he recognize the state of his nightmares, with communities fearful of the intolerant and even his own Shia minority under threat from their fellow Pakistanis? Less a republic of free men and more like a country dominated by zombies?

Solomam, bad Pakistan is and this hurts me to say it but I thank Jinnah from having saved me from the ignominy of saying 'I am Indian' because that would have been a bloody nightmare. Beyond the headlines that make Pakistan worse then it is - lies ancient land with great people living a better life then most Indians.

Behind the headlines that make India look better than it is - lies a disgusting land full of filth and a country with 20% of it's people, more than 200 million living in slave conditions that would make Blacks living in Jim Crow times look lucky in comparison.

Here watch this video and then compare India with Jinnah's unfulfilled Pakistan. The unfulfilled Pakistan is still darn sight better than real India.

 

[Solomon2]

Was there a ceremony marking the legal transfer of power from a British representative to an Israeli representative? Like there was for Pakistan and Bharat and other such territories that Britain governed?

Mandate Palestine was not part of the British Empire, Britain was the trustee appointed by the League of Nations. Such rule as the Brits had was intended to "secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion."

Consequently the League specified under Article 3 of the Mandate local autonomy and under Article 4 that "advising" governance and administration would be done not by the Brits, but by the Jews themselves under a "Jewish Agency". The League designated the Palestine Zionist Executive for these purposes. The Zionist Executive was later renamed the Jewish Agency for Palestine.

So I suppose the sort of "transfer" that you ask about was not necessary. The Brits probably decided it was not even appropriate, since in the weeks leading up to withdrawal British forces attacked ill-armed (there was an embargo) Jewish defenders with tanks and aircraft and handed most of their military checkpoints to Jordan's British-officered Arab Legion. All actions totally not in the spirit of the Mandate. Much of the world looked on with horror at what the Brits' did and with surprise and shock at the "Palestinians'" (that is, the Jews') ultimate survival in the face of such odds.

Solomam, bad Pakistan is and this hurts me to say it but I thank Jinnah from having saved me from the ignominy of saying 'I am Indian' because that would have been a bloody nightmare. Beyond the headlines that make Pakistan worse then it is - lies ancient land with great people living a better life then most Indians.

Behind the headlines that make India look better than it is - lies a disgusting land full of filth and a country with 20% of it's people, more than 200 million living in slave conditions that would make Blacks living in Jim Crow times look lucky in comparison.

I do appreciate that India has a superior propaganda machine in D.C. and that too many Americans are hoodwinked by it. Do remember, however, that economic development in British India was quite uneven, and ultimately Pakistan is judged (by people like me) by how poorly it treats its peoples within (few democratic rights and freedoms) and how it turns a blind eye (at best) to Pakistan-connected terrorists without.

I don't know if Pakistanis would have been better without India but certainly lots of people thought so at the time, including Muslim and Hindu commanders of the British India Army. Have you ever imagined how much better off all South Asia would be without so much spending on armaments or emphasis on the military mindset?

According to your own argument, this rule can be applied to the supposed 'extermination of Zionist (jews)' in Germany. That too was the biggest conspiracy of all -

You're attempting to turn a linguistic trick here: confusing conspiracy theory with actual conspiracy as proved by testimony and corroborating evidence. Two thumbs down.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

I do appreciate that India has a superior propaganda machine in D.C. and that too many Americans are hoodwinked by it.

Well hats off to you for recognizing this fact. Do please watch that video I posted. I will reply later in more depth to the points you raised.

 

[TMA]

Your grasp of events is very poor. Everybody who has been slaved to the Palestinian Arab narrative (look at the globalvoices link, there's no better way to put it) has such problems.

Then you deny Pakistan the moral and economic benefits that accrue from recognizing and normalizing relations with Israel.

Recognizing Imposter Israel would mean accepting the altered Torah and rejecting the Quran. Now there are many on PDF who do not care but most people in Pakistan do care about this.

The deed to the Holy Land for the Children of Israel was conditional and it has been violated. (Besides many Israelis are not Children of Israel anyways)

I should add the deed is for governance and state control, of course Children of Israel are allowed as residents.

 

[Sufian Qazi]

Israel is our enemy -_-

 

[schoolboy]

A foreign policy based on ideology or theology as opposed to pragmatism is unlikely to succeed.

Mandatory Palestine was a work-in-progress and can be distinguished from Partitioned British-India in Aug 1947. While the original Jewish settlors did purchase land with their own money, the Israeli war of Independence was essentially a preemptive annexation - occasioned by several reasons - some justified others unjustified, some legal and some illegal.

But like it or not and leaving tricky legal questions aside, Israel has not only survived but flourished and has a stable government, thriving diaspora, exportable goods and services and a professional army. Following a policy of not recognizing it is akin to refusing to 'recognise' a house standing some distance away from your own. It's an utterly unhelpful and approach, closes a relationship on grounds other than merit and can only work if some special compensation is received for the trouble. So unless Pakistan believes it is getting some rich dividend out of not recognizing Israel (whether economic or diplomatic) continuing with such a policy purely on ideological grounds is silly.

Behind the headlines that make India look better than it is - lies a disgusting land full of filth and a country with 20% of it's people, more than 200 million living in slave conditions that would make Blacks living in Jim Crow times look lucky in comparison.

Here watch this video and then compare India with Jinnah's unfulfilled Pakistan. The unfulfilled Pakistan is still darn sight better than real India.

A Pakistani is hardly in a position to initiate a dissing competition on slums and poverty vis-a-vis India. There are plenty of equally shocking videos about slums in Pakistan that do not exactly portray a shangri-la. Here's one.

I acknowledge poverty is a problem in India. That's an economic problem. There are social problems too and religous ones - as many Pakistani posters relish pointing out. And while poverty is comparable, religous and social advancement is something where Pakistan has languished behind, sadly due to its own policies.
In Jinnah's Pakistan, religous minorities have been all but wiped out and even Shias and Ahmadis are at the receiving end - not just by social prejudice but by a regular dose of bombs and shootings. What kind of life can a Hindu, Christian, Sikh, Parsi or Jew hope to look forward to? Are there any Sikh or Hindu officers in the army? Even if they are tolerated can they advance in society? What kind of country sees its minorities reduce from >20% at partition to <4% today? I'm sorry if all this is hurtful - that was not my intention - but your sanctimonious post on poverty was uncalled for.

Jinnah was explicit in wanting a polity for Pakistan that was based on 'Islamic principles' [sic] Why he wanted that despite his anglicised background and lack of orthodox beliefs is a mystery - the most plausible theory is simply that it afforded a good political platform for power and relevance at the time. He tried to caveat this by also simultaneously declaring that he wanted 'equal rights and status for all religions and where 'Hindus will have the same rights as Muslims'. [sic] but this was and remains hard to reconcile in any country that is founded on religous lines. IMO this was the greatest tragedy for Pakistan because not only did such an existential foundation foreclose minorities, it also set the course towards increasing Islamisation of society like an engine that is hard to stop - and which has only impeded development of the very people it was founded to protect.

 

[Sunan]

No friendship with illegal state of Israel until they give the land to palastinians.

 

[TMA]

A foreign policy based on ideology or theology as opposed to pragmatism is unlikely to succeed.

Mandatory Palestine was a work-in-progress and can be distinguished from Partitioned British-India in Aug 1947. While the original Jewish settlors did purchase land with their own money, the Israeli war of Independence was essentially a preemptive annexation - occasioned by several reasons - some justified others unjustified, some legal and some illegal.

But like it or not and leaving tricky legal questions aside, Israel has not only survived but flourished and has a stable government, thriving diaspora, exportable goods and services and a professional army. Following a policy of not recognizing it is akin to refusing to 'recognise' a house standing some distance away from your own. It's an utterly unhelpful and approach, closes a relationship on grounds other than merit and can only work if some special compensation is received for the trouble. So unless Pakistan believes it is getting some rich dividend out of not recognizing Israel (whether economic or diplomatic) continuing with such a policy purely on ideological grounds is silly.



A Pakistani is hardly in a position to initiate a dissing competition on slums and poverty vis-a-vis India. There are plenty of equally shocking videos about slums in Pakistan that do not exactly portray a shangri-la. Here's one.

I acknowledge poverty is a problem in India. That's an economic problem. There are social problems too and religous ones - as many Pakistani posters relish pointing out. And while poverty is comparable, religous and social advancement is something where Pakistan has languished behind, sadly due to its own policies.
In Jinnah's Pakistan, religous minorities have been all but wiped out and even Shias and Ahmadis are at the receiving end - not just by social prejudice but by a regular dose of bombs and shootings. What kind of life can a Hindu, Christian, Sikh, Parsi or Jew hope to look forward to? Are there any Sikh or Hindu officers in the army? Even if they are tolerated can they advance in society? What kind of country sees its minorities reduce from >20% at partition to <4% today? I'm sorry if all this is hurtful - that was not my intention - but your sanctimonious post on poverty was uncalled for.

Jinnah was explicit in wanting a polity for Pakistan that was based on 'Islamic principles' [sic] Why he wanted that despite his anglicised background and lack of orthodox beliefs is a mystery - the most plausible theory is simply that it afforded a good political platform for power and relevance at the time. He tried to caveat this by also simultaneously declaring that he wanted 'equal rights and status for all religions and where 'Hindus will have the same rights as Muslims'. [sic] but this was and remains hard to reconcile in any country that is founded on religous lines. IMO this was the greatest tragedy for Pakistan because not only did such an existential foundation foreclose minorities, it also set the course towards increasing Islamisation of society like an engine that is hard to stop - and which has only impeded development of the very people it was founded to protect.

..."Why he wanted that despite his anglicised background and lack of orthodox beliefs is a mystery..."

And you know this because you looked into his heart??
I am not saying that he was a model Muslim in his practice.

 

[schoolboy]

..."Why he wanted that despite his anglicised background and lack of orthodox beliefs is a mystery..."

And you know this because you looked into his heart??
I am not saying that he was a model Muslim in his practice.

I say it is a mystery precisely because I don't know his heart.

Unlike many of his contemporaries Jinnah never wrote a book or published his political views - or any views for that matter. But I have read all his letters in the period 1935 till his death (available in the national archives, UK and in our national archive) - and it seems that while he was willing to use an 'Islamic state' as a political platform for relevance and power he envisioned a change to a non-religous, secular country as soon as the new nation was stable (hence the repeated emphasis he places on making it eventually secular and the aversion he displays to the "mullahs and extremists" [sic]. This was wishful thinking on his part, IMO - it would have been a steep challenge to do so and even if he had the resources or the means they died with him. Prof Ayesha Jalal has written much on the lack of ideological commitment of Jinnah to Islamic principles - based on a reading of such letters and resolutions.