Pakistan-Israel relationship

[I M Sikander]

I am in fever of recognizing Israel. It will give us a chance to reach out and influence Israel to some extend to make things better with Palestine and other Arab countries. By bashing and abusing Israel all the time will not solve any problems for sure.

Can you explain how pakistan will influence isreal what rest of 200 countries failed to teach isreal.

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

Vow trade with a tiny country with population just 8 million.
In that case, better do trade with 2.5 billion people living just next door to Pakistan in india and china.

This tiny country is hub of economy. Make good relation with all countries Whether Muslims or not or whatever role of China in 1971 as neutral at last last moment.
Lolzzzzzzzz

 

[Green Arrow]

Can you explain how pakistan will influence isreal what rest of 200 countries failed to teach isreal.

By recognizing Israel and establishing a good relationships will definitely give Pakistan a chance to reach out Israel and put our POV forward. Pakistan definitely has the importance in Israeli's eyes and as i said before, Abusing and criticizing all the time will not solve any problems, then why not take a different approach. We have the example of Turkey who can criticize while also having a good relations with Israel.

 

[The SiLent crY]

And the rest of shia regimes are saints and playing foot ball is syria, paleatine, iraq, Lebanon and afghanistan.
Isnt it.

Shias are at least fighting Israel and their Takfiri allies in region .

I'm proud to say Israel's most dangerous enemy is a Shia group and since they could not deal with such enemy directly in 2006 they with the support of the US started a proxy war by using bunch of Takfiri terrorist mercenaries to weaken resistance front .

Let me ask you a question , Why did the so called Arab Spring turn into a bloody war in Syria but was silenced in Bahrain , Yemen , Egypt , etc ?

Why the so called international revolutionists in Syria started such war but nothing happened in Bahrain , Egypt and even Yemen ( for at least 2 years ) ?

The answer is not that hard , Assad's government was a threat for the US and it's sacred Israel and had to be punished but the regimes in Egypt , Bahrain and Yemen were pro US and harmless to Israelis . So :

The west used double standards , In Syria whoever fights anti Israeli alliance no matter from Chechnya , Uzbekistan , Turkmenistan , Pakistan , China and etc is called freedom fighter and receives Tows and other equipments no matter if they behead , bite heart , rape and etc but in other mentioned countries the local people are called terrorists , Iranians , Iranian backed terrorists , Rafidi and so on .

Do you know what most Sunnis problem is ? , The fact that they give themselves the right to Takfir whoever does not think or believe the way they do and this view has resulted in blinding them to the point they can not accept the truth despite seeing too may proofs .

You don't believe me ? , Just check some of Sunni mujahedin's twitter accounts in their recent attacks on 2 Shia cities in Idlib to get the differences between the most radical Shia and Sunnis .

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Gentlemen, I think it is better for Pakistan to recognize Israel. I mean is 70 or so years of warmongering isn't enough? Egypt and Jordan were sworn enemies of Israel in the past, and where are they now? Peace between countries. I have mentioned before that there should be a clear line that separate the State/Government from Religion. I mean the US of A is not perfect gentlemen, but we don't let religious nutjobs (we do have 'em too you know) dictate our foreign policy. It seems that Pakistani's (not all of them but a significant number) are more emotional about this issue than the Arabs themselves (to think the distance between Israel and Pakistan is a thousand miles or something). Let us stop with the rhetoric's gentlemen. Maybe we can start that change here.....


in PDF...


No offense, but please, give peace a chance.

@Green Arrow , @Armstrong , @T-Faz , @Winchester , @LoveIcon , @500 , @Solomon2 your inputs gentlemen?

If Pakistan's foreign policy was defined and informed entirely by self interest ( which it should ) there is every reason to not only recognize Isreal but have a have a robust relationship with Isreal. However Pakistan has for some decades become hostage to orthodox religiouos forces.

The backbone of these religious forces - the madaris system was built up during the Afghan Jihad in the 1980s and through Saudi funding a large block was built up which has drawn red lines around certain aspects of government policy. Isreal being one. Therefore for now no government would dare to to start warming up toward Isreal.

However official Pakistan policy toward Isreal is just rhetoric designed to placate the oil kingdoms. At practical level it is far from "warmongering" but neutral. I think both Isreal and Pakistan have unofficial understanding to remain "clear neutrality" toward each other notwithstanding occasional mild comment about "Palestinian rights to self determination".

If you consider that some of the Pakistani nuclear missiles like Shaheen are with range of Tel Aviv but Isrreal has not made any song and dance about it suggests to me there is some understanding between both sides. This sort of "schizophrenic policy" where government official position is at variance to secret understanding is common in Pakistan where many weak governments are compelled to follow self interest but then can't convince the ignorent public brainwashed hordes at home so they sing another song ay home.

Example of this can be seen in the American operated drones which were using Shamsi Airbase in Balochistan. All the while at regular intervals Pak government would rant on about "abuse of Pak soveriegnity" when those drones attacked targets inside Pakistan. Only later the cover was blown when somebody saw those drones at Shamsi airbase on Google Earth - which quickly were removed by Google. Subsequently Senator Feinstein accidentaly confirmed the existance of this covert field.

Shamsi Airfield - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Feinstein's Blurt Leads to U.S. Confirmation That It Uses Pakistani Air Base | Fox News

I strongly suspect similar type of duel policy is being folllowed by Pakistan toward Isreal. The latter takes it's security very seriously however I don't hear Tel Aviv fire off fusillade against Pakistan which it is not coy about doing toward other countries. So the present status quo between Isreal/Pak ( considered neutrality ) will continue until religious right inside Pakistan is weakened.

I already think that since Musharaf toyed with the idea of recognizing Isreal - He actualy said Pakistani's were being "more catholic than the pope" in regards to Isreal more people are amenable to Isreal then decade ago. However it is going to take some more water under the bridge before Pakistan recognizes Isreal. I know Pakistan foreign minster Khurshid Kasuri met Israeli Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom in 2005 in Turkey for talks.

However for now we have to as the critical mass needed for recognition is some time in future. The vocal nutjobs many at PDF will not let this pass. This Isreal thing and few more others are their favourite donkeys to flog. What would they do otherwise?

BBC NEWS | South Asia | Pakistan-Israel in landmark talks

Prime Ministers Benezir and Shimon Peres.

Ps. I still can't understand why Iran is so against Isreal. Maybe my Iranian friends can explain this? I mean most Arabs give you nothing but grief.

 

[Luffy 500]

As i have said my friend, the Palestine issue is an issue for the Palestinians, not Pakistani's. Yes Both people are Muslims but as I have mentioned, let us not get too affected lets leave a line between whats separates from Religion and the State/Government.

Gentlemen, I think it is better for Pakistan to recognize Israel. I mean is 70 or so years of warmongering isn't enough? Egypt and Jordan were sworn enemies of Israel in the past, and where are they now? Peace between countries. I have mentioned before that there should be a clear line that separate the State/Government from Religion. I mean the US of A is not perfect gentlemen, but we don't let religious nutjobs (we do have 'em too you know) dictate our foreign policy. It seems that Pakistani's (not all of them but a significant number) are more emotional about this issue than the Arabs themselves (to think the distance between Israel and Pakistan is a thousand miles or something). Let us stop with the rhetoric's gentlemen. Maybe we can start that change here.....

Leaving a line between religion and state is a western concept based on western socio-cultural experience. Such fallacious notions r alien to islam as islam provides a comprehensive code of conduct on how to govern a state. it has its own principle on governance and politics. State can't be separated from the beliefs and conscience of those who run it. Now west have formulated a new religion for them which is liberalism due to their tussle with a concocted roman catholic christianity. Thus u also don't have a separation between your beliefs and philosophy and the state. Problem starts when the liberal west want to impose its immoral values on the rest of the world.

And your foreign policy is not dictated by your religion u say? Why do u promote your immoral vile values derived from individualism i.e "universal human rights" when dealing with other countries? Your president already said he would promote LGBT rights in the rest of the world. What abt that crusade in iraq that caused death of more than 1.3 million muslims? trying to promote democrazy and model a ME state in a secular liberal western image?

 

[Winchester]

Gentlemen, I think it is better for Pakistan to recognize Israel. I mean is 70 or so years of warmongering isn't enough? Egypt and Jordan were sworn enemies of Israel in the past, and where are they now? Peace between countries. I have mentioned before that there should be a clear line that separate the State/Government from Religion. I mean the US of A is not perfect gentlemen, but we don't let religious nutjobs (we do have 'em too you know) dictate our foreign policy. It seems that Pakistani's (not all of them but a significant number) are more emotional about this issue than the Arabs themselves (to think the distance between Israel and Pakistan is a thousand miles or something). Let us stop with the rhetoric's gentlemen. Maybe we can start that change here.....


in PDF...


No offense, but please, give peace a chance.

@Green Arrow , @Armstrong , @T-Faz , @Winchester , @LoveIcon , @500 , @Solomon2 your inputs gentlemen?

To be fair there is no war mongering going on between Pakistan and Israel at the state level....you will see emotional attachment of the Pakistani people with the Palestinian cause and due to that factor hatred for the state of Israel.

Now will establishing diplomatic relations with Israel change that negative perception of Israel???
Your examples of Egypt and Jordan have shown that it is not entirely the case when it comes to the public of these two countries.

Israel seems to be doing well these days except for the rise of the far-right and i am not sure it is desperate for the likes of Pakistan to recognize it as may have been the case perhaps till the 90's especially now with its very close defense relationship with India.

In an ideal world there shouldn't be any problem with opening an embassy in Tel Aviv but in the present scenario it will just create unnecessary hassles unfortunately......

So for the time being Pakistan needs to stay out of the Middle East Israel being part of it and focus its energies towards East well North-East to be exact.

 

[somebozo]

Numerous group on Facebook advocating Pak Israel friendship

Pakistan-Israel Friendship

 

[Solomon2]

Guess what, Durand line is internationally recognized border and we have definite territorial boundary unlike yours with Palestine occupation.

The Durand Line is recognized internationally but not by the Afghan government. The close parallel isn't the border with the Palestinian Arabs but Israel's boundary with Lebanon which was jointly demarcated over a decade ago but Hezbollah says Israel still occupies while the U.N. says the territory referred to is Israel-occupied Syria.)

I condemn the operation due to the civilian casualties.

Do you endorse that all that's needed for a terrorist to act with impunity is to take civilians hostage and compel them to act as shields? Looks like that's what you're doing to me. It's a tough call, at what point to risk killing civilians or risk the guilty party getting away to kill more people.

America will ofcouse keep quite like with the Palestine issue because America is the acting devil right now in the world.

America is "the devil" that won't oppress or shoot other people for calling it a devil.

Check how many war crimes America did. Rest of the world should also take notice of the Yemen war conflict.
You can't justify your killings by saying that so and so ones are also doing it. Both you and them are doing wrong and should face the music.

Your words would have greater credibility if you were willing to condemn and act against war crimes committed by Muslims against people of all faiths in war time. By the way, are you so certain you know what a war crime is? I'm not convinced you do.

1: We try our level best to evacuate the area unlike you started bombing with absolute idea of civilians present...most of area is evacuated or prove me wrong?

There is no "try our level best" by the P.A.: it insists its evacuations are 100% successful, keeps newsmen out, and points to the resulting lack of news reports as evidence of success at reducing civilian casualties. An insult to every Pakistani's intelligence.

Tell me how can we let the media go in an insecure area? It is the responsibility of the state to protect its people.

Tch. Reporters accept the risk of their assignment as part of their job. Look at all the coverage Gaza got last year.

You do not know how much free our media is.they campaign hours against our Military but are forgiven. They publish anti state material but are not even scolded.

You might want to research that some more.

You can not justify your wrongdoings so you just start picking fingers at others? Maybe it is because of alikes of you that Israel will never solve the Palestine issue.

It's already been pointed out that Pakistanis are educated not to exercise independent judgement in the matter. You're not judging on facts in context. Indeed, you're not judging at all. All you're doing is regurgitating pap from the mother seagull.

You did not provide the numbers of Militant to civilians casualities.(lets ignore the destruction of hospitals and basic facilities for now).

No I didn't. Too many details cloud the central issues.

Anyway, I do not to indulge in this issue any further as both will justify their sides blindly.

Maybe it's just you? Blindly deciding that if you can't evaluate from my perspective then I can't evaluate from yours?

Recognizing Israel - exchanging ambassadors and such - is good, but not enough. The example of Egypt is instructive: after Sadat was assassinated, Egyptians were encouraged to think of Israel as a barely-restrained enemy rather than friendly neighbor. Trade should move from covert transactions to public ones. Pakistanis have to have the freedom to travel to and report from the Jewish State. And Israel advocacy has to be made legitimate. Only then can you start to unravel the mental complexes that have held Pakistan back for generations - that have kept Pakistan locked in war and hate and corruption rather than becoming another Canada or South Korea.

 

[PDF]

Shias are at least fighting Israel and their Takfiri allies in region .

I'm proud to say Israel's most dangerous enemy is a Shia group and since they could not deal with such enemy directly in 2006 they with the support of the US started a proxy war by using bunch of Takfiri terrorist mercenaries to weaken resistance front .

Let me ask you a question , Why did the so called Arab Spring turn into a bloody war in Syria but was silenced in Bahrain , Yemen , Egypt , etc ?

Why the so called international revolutionists in Syria started such war but nothing happened in Bahrain , Egypt and even Yemen ( for at least 2 years ) ?

The answer is not that hard , Assad's government was a threat for the US and it's sacred Israel and had to be punished but the regimes in Egypt , Bahrain and Yemen were pro US and harmless to Israelis . So :

The west used double standards , In Syria whoever fights anti Israeli alliance no matter from Chechnya , Uzbekistan , Turkmenistan , Pakistan , China and etc is called freedom fighter and receives Tows and other equipments no matter if they behead , bite heart , rape and etc but in other mentioned countries the local people are called terrorists , Iranians , Iranian backed terrorists , Rafidi and so on .

Do you know what most Sunnis problem is ? , The fact that they give themselves the right to Takfir whoever does not think or believe the way they do and this view has resulted in blinding them to the point they can not accept the truth despite seeing too may proofs .

You don't believe me ? , Just check some of Sunni mujahedin's twitter accounts in their recent attacks on 2 Shia cities in Idlib to get the differences between the most radical Shia and Sunnis .

Please do not say Shias are standing against Israel. I am Sunni and I also stand against them.
Lets not represent ourselves as shia sunni,rather as Muslims because this is what Islam has taught us. If some Arab country is not doing what it should,still do not call or identify them by sect.

 

[Azadkashmir]

i cant sorry but i cant no way British empire was Rothschild empire read the Balfour declaration it has Rothschild name on it sorry they were responsible for colonialism of India subcontinent and others including world war 1 world war 2. yes communism was financed by international jew and rise of hitler no hitler no palestine.

 

[prima99]

why nobody mentions about us?

The Quiet Growth in Indonesia-Israel Relations | The Diplomat

Please do not say Shias are standing against Israel. I am Sunni and I also stand against them.
Lets not represent ourselves as shia sunni,rather as Muslims because this is what Islam has taught us. If some Arab country is not doing what it should,still do not call or identify them by sect.

 

[Solomon2]

why nobody mentions about us?

The Quiet Growth in Indonesia-Israel Relations | The Diplomat

Didn't know about the article, thanks.

I can't see Pakistan taking the Indonesian route because (1) that ship already sailed - Suharto, unlike Jinnah, dealt with Israelis from the birth of the Jewish State - and (2) such a low-key approach will draw the ire of Pakistan's extremists without offering the benefit of ideologically confronting and squashing them.

Ho, that takes me back. I had a classmate in college from Kuwait, his mother was Iranian and his dad was Iraqi - and the two countries were then at war, each side trying to draft him...wonder what happened to him...

 

[prima99]

Didn't know about the article, thanks.

I can't see Pakistan taking the Indonesian route because (1) that ship already sailed - Suharto, unlike Jinnah, dealt with Israelis from the birth of the Jewish State - and (2) such a low-key approach will draw the ire of Pakistan's extremists without offering the benefit of ideologically confronting and squashing them.

it still worth a try though. i mean if we can do this, it should be easier even for Pakistan. their women are hot though, so that should be added as consideration

History of the Jews in Indonesia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jew Synagogue in Surabaya

and another one in Manado

 

[Azadkashmir]

am with sultan abdul hamid.