Pakistan-Israel relationship

[I.R.A]

Forget recognizing part being a Muslim believing in Israel is part of my faith, Zionist state is though another story.

 

[Solomon2]

....It seems that Pakistani's (not all of them but a significant number) are more emotional about this issue than the Arabs themselves...

We know whats our interests and ideology -

James, what you're asking is perhaps more than you realize, for to men like Ranasikander ideology trumps facts, logic, and humane thinking. To any thing that shows or implies Israel in a good light, Pakistan's Higher Education Commission calls upon universities (and by implication all teachers) to

remain very vigilant and forestall any activity that in any manner challenge(s) the ideology and principles of Pakistan, and/or perspective of the government of Pakistan.​

The order to Pakistanis to tell them how they MUST think reduces Pakistanis from citizens to subjects and all the humiliation it entails, thus making it easier to rule the hoi polloi without disturbing inquiries into government officials enriching themselves through corruption, poor job performance, etc.

Pakistan yielded the freedoms of British rule to embrace bigotry decades ago with the Objectives Resolution. Everything they've suffered since is a logical consequence. Today's Pakistanis are going to have to want to be free - to be willing to fight for Western-style individual human rights over collective bigotry - to recognize Israel. They have tasted the bitter dregs of bigoted violence in the divorce with East Pakistan and the terrorist attacks today but are not there yet, not even a vocal minority willing to assemble on the street, I guess.

That's not giving individual Pakistanis excuses not to act. It's giving them reasons to step forward and become leaders. But I doubt many will see it that way, yes?

We will be more than happy to recognize Israel once Israel stops killing Muslims and return them their land.(Palestine).

It's one of those tough things, that your perspective is skewed because you're not allowed to learn better in school, and those that do have so far lacked the courage to assert the truth in front of their countrymen. But at the very least you could stop blindly regurgitating such murder-mongering malevolence.

I do not reject the Israel entity. But I do not think that we should have relationship with a nation who has a controversial and no definite boundary -

Closer to heart is the Durand Line with Afghanistan, further away are border disputes involving Morocco, Somalia, Sudan, China's claims in the South China Sea, etc. Pakistan has relations with those countries - do you think Pakistan should not?

 

[PDF]

It's one of those tough things, that your perspective is skewed because you're not allowed to learn better in school, and those that do have so far lacked the courage to assert the truth in front of their countrymen. But at the very least you could stop blindly regurgitating such murder-mongering malevolence

So you did not bomb Gaza just last year?

 

[Solomon2]

I just wish that the Palestine issue is resolved so that the world can become a better place. And also as Mr slav defense has started, let us deal with our internal mess before meddling with our external matters.

What you don't grasp is that recognizing Israel may well be part of both making the world a better place AND dealing with Pakistan's internal mess. Because it's all about what your values are, both those of the individual and the society. If you are brave enough to analyze the facts in context squarely and argue that this means there is justification for Israel being legitimate, the morally superior party in the conflict, and a model for Pakistan, then you're putting every violent religious bigot out there on the defensive and moving the political conflict from one of bombs, corruption, and assassinations to that of dialogue.

So you did not bomb Gaza just last year?

Acts are not criminal in themselves but in context. If you blow up a building were you demolishing an empty structure as part of a community-accepted redevelopment or to kill the people inside? Or is blowing up a building a criminal act under any circumstances? It's the difference between being a "mad scientist" and a responsible member of the community.

 

[PDF]

What you don't grasp is that recognizing Israel may well be part of both making the world a better place AND dealing with Pakistan's internal mess. Because it's all about what your values are, both those of the individual and the society. If you are brave enough to analyze the facts in context squarely and argue that this means there is justification for Israel being legitimate, the morally superior party in the conflict, and a model for Pakistan, then you're putting every violent religious bigot out there on the defensive and moving the political conflict from one of bombs, corruption, and assassinations to that of dialogue.

Acts are not criminal in themselves but in context. If you blow up a building were you demolishing an empty structure as part of a community-accepted redevelopment or to kill the people inside? Or is blowing up a building a criminal act under any circumstances? It's the difference between being a "mad scientist" and a responsible member of the community.

Being responsible member includes protecting innocents who get killed. Can you tell me how many military rebels vs innocent civilians killed in your campaign in 2014?
It is best for us not to recognize Israel until Palestine is given freedom and you are given a definite territorial boundary.
A country citizen on whom serving in military is compulsory will never get out of his brainwashed learnings.
no sane person will accept killing of innocents for what ever reason given.
Amnesty International Report 2014/15 | Amnesty International
You have a weak case mate. Do not justify killing of innocents please.

 

[Solomon2]

Being responsible member includes protecting innocents who get killed.

Would you care to re-write that sentence?

Can you tell me how many military rebels vs innocent civilians killed in your campaign in 2014?

People who live in glass houses should not throw stones. When Pakistan is asked that question about its military's operations the answers are (1) all civilians were evacuated from conflict zones, (2) the only fatalities from Pakistani military operations are soldiers, "militants", and "suspected militants", and (3) no reporters are allowed in the region without Pakistani military approval (and now you're not going to get it.)

Asserting the values that allow you to embrace Israel is one way to reject this institutionalized insult to your intelligence. Civilians who are employed as human shields - as Hamas does - lose their protected status under international law; the criminal fault is that of the offending combatant, Hamas. Despite this, Israel worked to avoid such casualties and received great praise for it by military professionals: link. It is only by rejecting context one can criticize Israel for killing "innocent civilians" - the difference between a "mad scientist" and responsible citizen, you see.

It is best for us not to recognize Israel until Palestine is given freedom and you are given a definite territorial boundary.

Weak excuse, to accept the substance of pro-Zionist arguments but refuse to act upon it until it's safe. How can you ever battle your way out of your country's moral morass with that attitude? Do you think the British will come back or the the Americans will liberate you? Do you want to become another Syria or Iraq?

Amnesty International Report 2014/15 | Amnesty International

It is Amnesty that has a very weak case: link.

Being responsible member includes protecting innocents who get killed.

Of interest:
Yemen Strikes, Israel, and Double Standards in the Middle East: The Saudi-led Arab coalition conducted airstrikes this weekend against Houthi rebel-controlled government buildings and residential neighborhoods in Yemen’s capital that killed dozens. But in contrast to reactions to Israeli actions in Gaza, the international community–including the U.S.–has largely ignored civilian casualties in the Saudi-led campaign in Yemen, including when it involves bombing urban areas....

Do you now advocate de-recognizing Saudi Arabia and encouraging its conquest by Houthi rebels and/or ISIS? What sort of world are you working towards, sir?

 

[The SiLent crY]

Well , Almost all Sunni countries have sold their everything to Israel ! . Why shouldn't Pakistan do that ?

They have nothing less than Saudis , Qataris , Jordanians , Turks and so on . Heck even an unwritten alliance can be great like Saudi bros have .

 

[volatile]

As i have said my friend, the Palestine issue is an issue for the Palestinians, not Pakistani's. Yes Both people are Muslims but as I have mentioned, let us not get too affected lets leave a line between whats separates from Religion and the State/Government.

Dear we as Pakistani fundamentally believe Palestine and Kashmir issue is some thing in which Muslims from both regions are suppressed very badly.It is also in the interest of Israel to settle this issue as we have so much to learn from each other but unfortunately we are learning how to kill each other.

 

[PDF]

Closer to heart is the Durand Line with Afghanistan

Guess what, Durand line is internationally recognized border and we have definite territorial boundary unlike yours with Palestine occupation.

Yemen Strikes, Israel, and Double Standards in the Middle East: The Saudi-led Arab coalition conducted airstrikes this weekend against Houthi rebel-controlled government buildings and residential neighborhoods in Yemen’s capital that killed dozens. But in contrast to reactions to Israeli actions in Gaza, the international community–including the U.S.–has largely ignored civilian casualties in the Saudi-led campaign in Yemen, including when it involves bombing urban areas....

I condemn the operation due to the civilian casualties. America will ofcouse keep quite like with the Palestine issue because America is the acting devil right now in the world. Check how many war crimes America did. Rest of the world should also take notice of the Yemen war conflict.
You can't justify your killings by saying that so and so ones are also doing it.
Both you and them are doing wrong and should face the music.

People who live in glass houses should not throw stones. When Pakistan is asked that question about its military's operations the answers are (1) all civilians were evacuated from conflict zones, (2) the only fatalities from Pakistani military operations are soldiers, "militants", and "suspected militants", and (3) no reporters are allowed in the region without Pakistani military approval (and now you're not going to get it.)

1: We try our level best to evacuate the area unlike you started bombing with absolute idea of civilians present. Ever heard that we targeted hospitals unlike your do?
2: As I said, most of area is evacuated or prove me wrong. Tell me how much news is their saying we bombed,killed civilians compared to yours. Your argument is weak.
We evacuate the area before launching any operation.
3: Tell me how can we let the media go in an insecure area? It is the responsibility of the state to protect its people. You do not know how much free our media is.they campaign hours against our Military but are forgiven. They publish anti state material but are not even scolded.
You can not justify your wrongdoings so you just start picking fingers at others? Maybe it is because of alikes of you that Israel will never solve the Palestine issue.
You did not provide the numbers of Militant to civilians casualities.(lets ignore the destruction of hospitals and basic facilities for now).
Anyway, I do not to indulge in this issue any further as both will justify their sides blindly. Lets wish for the best to happen between us.
Have a nice day!

 

[BHAN85]

Gmar Hatima Tova

 

[Green Arrow]

Gentlemen, I think it is better for Pakistan to recognize Israel. I mean is 70 or so years of warmongering isn't enough? Egypt and Jordan were sworn enemies of Israel in the past, and where are they now? Peace between countries. I have mentioned before that there should be a clear line that separate the State/Government from Religion. I mean the US of A is not perfect gentlemen, but we don't let religious nutjobs (we do have 'em too you know) dictate our foreign policy. It seems that Pakistani's (not all of them but a significant number) are more emotional about this issue than the Arabs themselves (to think the distance between Israel and Pakistan is a thousand miles or something). Let us stop with the rhetoric's gentlemen. Maybe we can start that change here.....


in PDF...


No offense, but please, give peace a chance.

@Green Arrow , @Armstrong , @T-Faz , @Winchester , @LoveIcon , @500 , @Solomon2 your inputs gentlemen?

I am in fever of recognizing Israel. It will give us a chance to reach out and influence Israel to some extend to make things better with Palestine and other Arab countries. By bashing and abusing Israel all the time will not solve any problems for sure.

 

[RazorMC]

I am in fever of recognizing Israel. It will give us a chance to reach out and influence Israel to some extend to make things better with Palestine and other Arab countries. By bashing and abusing Israel all the time will not solve any problems for sure.

Maybe, maybe not.

There is no guarantee that Pakistan will be able to exert any influence over a country with which there have been no relations since inception.

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

Ok, we should recognize this tiny country Israel. It will not make any significant difference if we don't recognize Israel but recognizing this country will bring trade, & some positives.

 

[I M Sikander]

Well , Almost all Sunni countries have sold their everything to Israel ! . Why shouldn't Pakistan do that ?

They have nothing less than Saudis , Qataris , Jordanians , Turks and so on . Heck even an unwritten alliance can be great like Saudi bros have .

And the rest of shia regimes are saints and playing foot ball is syria, paleatine, iraq, Lebanon and afghanistan.
Isnt it.

 

[I M Sikander]

Ok, we should recognize this tiny country Israel. It will not make any significant difference if we don't recognize Israel but recognizing this country will bring trade, & some positives.

Vow trade with a tiny country with population just 8 million.
In that case, better do trade with 2.5 billion people living just next door to Pakistan in india and china.