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Pakistan isn’t banana republic, it’s absurdistan

As I said its the law of requital at play .......... they got what they deserved. Others are not that smart to make a mess like them.

I say, give it more time. It will become visible to you, after the dust has settled. Others aren't in power and don't pose an equal and credible threat, yet. And for specifically that reason and for the time being, the others aren't suffering at all. I remember two-three excerpts from news, how millions and billions of PKR were recovered from certain politician's homes in cash. And yet, no equal action has been pursued against them.

P.S. Please keep in mind that I know that Nawaz Sharif and his family are corrupts of the highest order. The action against them is correct, but its timing and selectiveness are making it suspect.

That will happen only if and when the time is right to derive maximum benefit, not for justice. If it ever happens.

See, everybody is corrupt. And you can't expect an alcoholic to ban the consumption of alcohol, because then, how would he acquire some? It just doesn't happen, unless of course, the country in question is an absolute monarchy and the Godfather(s) are certain that they can ban something and still do it owing to their power plus resulting influence (an equation derived from the reading the introduction of "Some Girls - My Life in a Harem" and having the knowledge of strict religious law in Brunei). Pakistan of course isn't one, hence eat and let eat.
 
I say, give it more time. It will become visible to you, after the dust has settled. Others aren't in power and don't pose an equal and credible threat, yet. And for specifically that reason and for the time being, the others aren't suffering at all. I remember two-three excerpts from news, how millions and billions of PKR were recovered from certain politician's homes in cash. And yet, no equal action has been pursued against them.

P.S. Please keep in mind that I know that Nawaz Sharif and his family are corrupts of the highest order. The action against them is correct, but its timing and selectiveness are making it suspect.

Suffering?

Do you think it would matter to a person who has been made to continuously live in a place surrounded by garbage for decades, to inquire and go into details of how all of a sudden some of the garbage somehow vanished and the remaining is still there? I would choose to be realistic and be grateful that at least some of it is removed, garbage is my problem, who lifts it, which part of garbage they lift and when they lift ....... that's not my concern, I know nothing happens in this country on its own, but I won't object to anything done by anyone that benefits me in long run, in this insensitive, stuck, inept society and place ...... mayra tamatar chahay Army sasta kary ya Dakoo sasta kary, why would I sympathize with the veg seller?........... blanket accountability is need of the time but is it feasible right now with all this current setup, legislation and legislators? Its not only politicians stashing cash in their houses its the clerks as well. The rot in society is too deep ..... I agree ......... but that should not translate into sympathy for a proven corrupt incompetent tiolet hole.

What happened is making of NS and his own offspring they cannot blame anyone else ......... if I was able I would hang them all for their stupidity.
 
blanket accountability is need of the time but is it feasible right now with all this current setup, legislation and legislators? Its not only politicians stashing cash in their houses its the clerks as well. The rot in society is too deep ..... I agree ......... but that should not translate into sympathy for a proven corrupt incompetent tiolet hole.

But I am not showing sympathy with anyone, at all. I told you already. The problem is that its never considered feasible owing to the conditions, it wasn't feasible back then, it isn't feasible right now and most probably it will not be feasible, in the future. Pakistan has always been run, on the doctrine of necessity, even by the courts of law. Maybe, we are starting to pinpoint the problem, at last.

Do you think it would matter to a person who has been made to continuously live in a place surrounded by garbage for decades, to inquire and go into details of how all of a sudden some of the garbage somehow vanished and the remaining is still there? I would choose to be realistic and be grateful that at least some of it is removed, garbage is my problem, who lifts it, which part of garbage they lift and when they lift ....... that's not my concern, I know nothing happens in this country on its own, but I won't object to anything done by anyone that benefits me in long run, in this insensitive, stuck, inept society and place ...... mayra tamatar chahay Army sasta kary ya Dakoo sasta kary, why would I sympathize with the veg seller?

I would really be limiting my concern to the price of the tomatoes again, if I consider that. Not realizing that if they proceed further, the price of the potatoes can improve too. And so on. Then, if they don't proceed further, I would find it only logical to consider their motives behind improving the prices of tomatoes, in the first place. Why? Is it because they don't sell tomatoes themselves?

But then again, it wouldn't be surprising. Considering that I have lived in garbage, all my life and thus can't see beyond. Because my focus, interests and considerations are limited.

I would like to bring your attention to another thing too. So far Nawaz Sharif and his family have only been disqualified. The corruption cases are running, for sure, but they don't appear to be heading towards any logical conclusion.

Thanks for realizing the reality though.
 
Thanks for realizing the reality though.

This part is where most of us are mistaken. I can sense that it would get tougher and tougher as the newer people who would take charge someday ......... would be the ones who have fought face to face with a dangerous enemy in hostile zones ..... the current ones may still be tolerating some shiz but the new generation would always have this in their mind "we served our country with our lives ...... what did they do?". So the wise decision is to make the rights now when they still have sometime. Tomato price won't make their wrongs right, Pakistani society can be brought to its senses if the approach is top to bottom.
 
See, everybody is corrupt. And you can't expect an alcoholic to ban the consumption of alcohol, because then, how would he acquire some? It just doesn't happen, unless of course, the country in question is an absolute monarchy and the Godfather(s) are certain that they can ban something and still do it owing to their power plus resulting influence (an equation derived from the reading the introduction of "Some Girls - My Life in a Harem" and having the knowledge of strict religious law in Brunei). Pakistan of course isn't one, hence eat and let eat.

But, as one of your colleagues claimed "all is not doom and gloom" but wouldn't describe how that could be true, and as Webby himself just admonished me "no need to repeat bullshit", I really have nothing more to say in this thread, and not much elsewhere either. :D
 
But, as one of your colleagues claimed "all is not doom and gloom" but wouldn't describe how that could be true, and as Webby himself just admonished me "no need to repeat bullshit", I really have nothing more to say in this thread, and not much elsewhere either. :D

Oh, your time will come. Wait.

People can have delusions for a long time, sometimes even for their whole life. But delusions, being delusions, have little logical basis or reasons to exist and hence are so fragile, to get broken at the slightest instance of the mind realizing that something's amiss. Something just doesn't fit. Some day you wake up and someone/something shatters the glass. All will see, if not today, tomorrow. Pakistan is headed towards a dangerous path, for a long time. And besides a few parameters, all that was wrong yesterday is wrong today.

This part is where most of us are mistaken. I can sense that it would get tougher and tougher as the newer people who would take charge someday ......... would be the ones who have fought face to face with a dangerous enemy in hostile zones ..... the current ones may still be tolerating some shiz but the new generation would always have this in their mind "we served our country with our lives ...... what did they do?". So the wise decision is to make the rights now when they still have sometime. Tomato price won't make their wrongs right, Pakistani society can be brought to its senses if the approach is top to bottom.

No better judge than time, no?

We can only speculate, but Pakistan doesn't exactly fit the criterion for true change which always comes from within. So, if nothing has changed, why is the change coming, in the first place? We all know that nothing happens without any reason. Pakistanis (you, I and everybody) still vote for the same political parties and politicians, what in your opinion has changed?
 
No better judge than time, no?

Yes .......... but a wise man prepares for every situation.

We can only speculate, but Pakistan doesn't exactly fit the criterion for true change which always comes from within. So, if nothing has changed, why is the change coming, in the first place? We all know that nothing happens without any reason. Pakistanis (you, I and everybody) still vote for the same political parties and politicians, what in your opinion has changed?


Teen talwar and Shahra e Faisal used to have 3 to 4 cars running ......... now its a bumper to bumper situation. A lot has changed and it keeps changing and will change again ........ humans die, death doesn't care if they are VIP, political dynasties or a beggar. New people will take our place one day.
 
Oh, your time will come. Wait.

People can have delusions for a long time, sometimes even for their whole life. But delusions, being delusions, have little logical basis or reasons to exist and hence are so fragile, to get broken at the slightest instance of the mind realizing that something's amiss. Something just doesn't fit. Some day you wake up and someone/something shatters the glass. All will see, if not today, tomorrow. Pakistan is headed towards a dangerous path, for a long time. And besides a few parameters, all that was wrong yesterday is wrong today.


I am in no rush. As you say, there is no better judge than time, and I am sure what I say, no matter how unpopular at the moment, will turn out to be substantially vindicated. I have the courage to speak up for the truth.

Pakistan (and PDF) are on a path of their own choosing, despite opportunities to implement meaningful change, and therefore will have no one else to hold responsible but themselves.
 
I am in no rush. As you say, there is no better judge than time, and I am sure what I say, no matter how unpopular at the moment, will turn out to be substantially vindicated.

Pakistan (and PDF) are on a path of their own choosing, despite opportunities to implement meaningful change, and therefore will have no one else to hold responsible but themselves.

saari lakriyaan ek hi kishti me daal di hain apnay to......

kabhi muskura bhi liya karen......

let the people enjoy their responsibility for once. not even the strictest kuala hugging tobacco chewing tharki Mullah can claim to know the future....... yet aap malang log are quite sure about it.

kesi kesi filmen chal rahi hai duniya me
 
Jaisa bhi hai, appna hai. I am not the only one who has traveled some, but I have to say that I have seen some really horrible places in my time. Some of them were in my own homeland but many more far worse in other parts of the world as well. This is what leads me to my initial thought, it could be better, yet it is our own and it is certainly not the worst. Perhaps there is some complacency in my views, but I certainly believe the road isn't as dark as many make it out to be. Some antagonists say since you lost EP, Pakistan is bereft of its meaning. I am long done trying to rationalize the Pakistan of today with the original Nazria-e-Pakistan. There is no need to. As such jaisa bhi hai, theek thaak hai.
 
When your parents are old, sick, and weak, some shameless ba$tards kick them out on to the street, or to an old home. Others spend all their energies, working hard to make their lives comfortable, even changing their diapers, and feeding them by hand, they know, they will never become young again, they may never get thier health back, but they work tirelessly to make their last years as comfortable as possible, even at the detriment of their own comfort, and health. They refuse to give up, and say "NO."

Your motherland is just like your mother, except it is not downhill all the way, she CAN BE nursed back to health, It is up to you to be a ba$tard and walk away from her, OR be a man, stand by her and do everything you possibly can.

This thread has proven, who the ba$tards are, and who the men are.

Salute to the brave Men and Women who have stood by their motherland!

Best Regards
 
Jaisa bhi hai, appna hai. I am not the only one who has traveled some, but I have to say that I have seen some really horrible places in my time. Some of them were in my own homeland but many more far worse in other parts of the world as well. This is what leads me to my initial thought, it could be better, yet it is our own and it is certainly not the worst. Perhaps there is some complacency in my views, but I certainly believe the road isn't as dark as many make it out to be. Some antagonists say since you lost EP, Pakistan is bereft of its meaning. I am long done trying to rationalize the Pakistan of today with the original Nazria-e-Pakistan. There is no need to. As such jaisa bhi hai, theek thaak hai.

Sir, it is incorrect to confuse valid criticisms of Pakistan with an attack on its very existence. Pakistan is a reality that is here to stay, undoubtedly, for better or worse. The goals should be to see how it can be improved, and complacency over its imperfections is not the way to do it.
 
Sir, it is incorrect to confuse valid criticisms of Pakistan with an attack on its very existence. Pakistan is a reality that is here to stay, undoubtedly, for better or worse. The goals should be to see how it can be improved, and complacency over its imperfections is not the way to do it.
Critique is valid unless the country becomes a horse that has been flogged to death a hundred times over. Yes Pakistan has a long road but we aren't the only ones on it. Perception of things in Pakistan does a lot of damage to the reality. Every time I run into issues doing something in Pakistan, the urge is to walk away saying, this has to be the worst experience ever, however ONLY one thing keeps me objective and that is by observing how things are done elsewhere in the world. Let's also realize that the third world is a wide band. The bulk of the world's nations fall in this category but the band also means that not all of the third world is equal and herein lies the point I am trying to get across. Yes call for improvements but take pride in what has been achieved in all of these years.

I was just perusing the most recent issue of National Geographic magazine. In it, there is an article about the world's "happiest" countries. The three that make the grade, not surprisingly, I believe are Norway, Singapore and Costa Rica. The way happiness is gauged is primarily by assessing how the citizens feel about the country. They all vary. In one case, the reason people are happy is because the state cares for them, in another because the people can make whatever of themselves and in the third, its having the right balance in life. What I walked away with in the article is that you don't need all things material to be happy. With consumerism pervading across all of the third world, people gauge happiness only when they are materially satisfied. I think something is lost in such way of thinking and judging a country.
 
Critique is valid unless the country becomes a horse that has been flogged to death a hundred times over. Yes Pakistan has a long road but we aren't the only ones on it. Perception of things in Pakistan does a lot of damage to the reality. Every time I run into issues doing something in Pakistan, the urge is to walk away saying, this has to be the worst experience ever, however ONLY one thing keeps me objective and that is by observing how things are done elsewhere in the world. Let's also realize that the third world is a wide band. The bulk of the world's nations fall in this category but the band also means that not all of the third world is equal and herein lies the point I am trying to get across. Yes call for improvements but take pride in what has been achieved in all of these years.

I was just perusing the most recent issue of National Geographic magazine. In it, there is an article about the world's "happiest" countries. The three that make the grade, not surprisingly, I believe are Norway, Singapore and Costa Rica. The way happiness is gauged is primarily by assessing how the citizens feel about the country. They all vary. In one case, the reason people are happy is because the state cares for them, in another because the people can make whatever of themselves and in the third, its having the right balance in life. What I walked away with in the article is that you don't need all things material to be happy. With consumerism pervading across all of the third world, people gauge happiness only when they are materially satisfied. I think something is lost in such way of thinking and judging a country.

I can agree with your post whole-heartedly. I will continue to call for improvements where they can be sought, and yes, I do try to appreciate the real improvements that have, and are, being made. Fair is fair.
 
A very typical Pakistani story about media troubles:

https://www.dawn.com/news/1368988/the-fun-never-really-ends

The fun never really ends
The state continues to draw red lines and the press continues to bump up against them.
OWEN BENNETT-JONES Published about 4 hours ago
59fc8327833d7.jpg

General Ziaul Haq, considered – and, indeed, described – the Karachi Press Club as ‘enemy territory’. A free media at large has generally been anathema to Pakistani rulers. Photo: KPC Archives

Foreign correspondents reporting on Pakistan fall into two categories. Some are infuriated by the doublespeak that so often emanates from Pakistan officialdom. “How dare you,” the Foreign Office used to ask in outraged tones, “even suggest we are building a nuclear bomb?” And there were those vehement denials of involvement in Kargil. “We are not there!” the Army insisted, even when the world knew they were. And today? “The Haqqani Network? Nothing to do with us.”

While that sort of thing drives some correspondents to the airport, others at least appreciate the charm with which these diplomatic untruths are delivered. And from a journalistic point of view, there are mitigating circumstances. Pakistan produces so much news. With violent jihadis, nuclear bombs, the drugs trade, insurgencies and endless amounts of vivid colour stories, it is impossible to be short of things to write about. And there’s something else. Put a microphone in front of a Pakistani and the mildest mannered individual will, at a moment’s notice, turn into an impassioned political activist proclaiming the virtues of his or her political hero whilst despairing about the venal corruption of everyone else’s. It’s all great copy. Cynics might say that the politics of Pakistan have the quality of a soap opera in which the lead characters – and their offspring – vie for power in a largely pointless competition between self interested, grossly wealthy, elitist egos. Maybe. But it’s fun to watch.

And the press itself has had a tumultuous history filled with large characters, great courage, high principles and low venality. In the early days it was all about Ayub Khan’s battles with the Pakistan Times. It was also an era when people all over the country turned to BBC Urdu as a source of impartial news. As for television, PTV, for its first quarter of a century, enjoyed a monopoly that remained intact until two international channels, the BBC and the CNN, came onto the scene offering an alternative to the official view.

As the BBC Pakistan correspondent on the night of October 12, 1999, I experienced the somewhat terrifying responsibility that came with working for what, at the time, was probably the most trusted news source in the country. PTV, always weakened by the need to reflect the views of the government, was further disabled by being caught between two authorities – the government and the Army. CNN did not have anyone one on the ground. That left the BBC.

It began with a call from a contact in PTV saying that something was going on. The BBC cameraman and I rushed down to the station’s headquarters just in time to film soldiers climbing over the gates. In the old days feeding such pictures to London would have been impossible without the cooperation of PTV which, in the circumstances, would not have been forthcoming. But using a primitive form of internet transfer software we managed to get the pictures sent. However, that was just the start of my problems. Within a few minutes I was live on the BBC being asked: “Is it a coup?”

Rumours of an Army takeover were spreading all over the country. People were tuning to the BBC to get an authoritative version of what was happening. If I called it wrong, the BBC would never live it down. When I arrived in 1998 people were still complaining about what they believed was a false BBC report about the Indian advance on Lahore in 1965. Could it, I wondered, be something less than a coup? An action to arrest the head of PTV perhaps or seize some film? A holding operation of some kind? How to be sure?

59fc8381efc01.jpg

Troops climbing into the Islamabad headquarters of Pakistan Television on October 12, 1999, the day when General Pervez Musharraf took over power while his plane was still airborne. | Photo: Dawn / White Star Archives


“Soldiers have climbed into PTV,” I hedged. “I can’t say it is a coup but it certainly looks like one.” And then some anxious minutes to see if even that rather mealy-mouthed version of events stood the test of time. That was only 20 years ago but already those days seem like ancient history. General Pervez Musharraf’s decision to enable the establishment of private channels transformed Pakistan’s media scene. It is often said that the military only agreed to the reform because India outdid them when it came to whipping up a war fever during the Kargil conflict. India’s private-sector channels had a clear, melodramatic edge over the rather stolid efforts of PTV. Whatever the Army’s true motives, the outcome has been remarkable, with a babble of news channels both radio and TV now churning out news in many languages 24/7.

The impression of media diversity, however, is illusory. The channels may compete for viewers but they air strikingly similar opinions. It’s free speech of a kind – but everyone knows the limits.

It was ever thus. Many of Pakistan’s military and civilian leaders have bribed friendly journalists and imprisoned hostile ones. Some have even, to put it generously, failed to stop journalists being murdered. For the politicians it’s normally a case of trying to prevent negative coverage. The soldiers see it slightly differently. The press, they believe, is a weapon to be deployed on the information frontline, serving the Army’s version of the national interest. But both the politicians and the military top brass do agree about one thing: journalists are, by and large, upstarts who should know their station and do as they are told.

The journalists – or at least an impressive proportion of them – have had different ideas. Even when General Ziaul Haq was describing the Karachi Press Club as “enemy territory”, many journalists responded by resisting authority. It was a difficult time. But the contest isn’t over yet. Whether its Geo’s 2015 allegations about the ISI or this year’s [Dawn story by Cyril Almeida], the state continues to draw red lines and the press continues to bump up against them.

So where does Dawn sit in this new media age? The last decade has seen a number of Masters and PhD students conduct content analysis of Pakistan’s newspapers. Having read half-a-dozen of these rather heavy going theses, I can summarise their conclusions: ‘The English language press is less sensational than the Urdu language press’. It may sound like a recipe for low circulation but dawn.com’s growing international readership suggests otherwise. Some Pakistanis may find Dawn a shade liberal but many readers abroad looking for an independent, reliable voice, see it rather differently.

The writer is a British journalist and author of ‘Pakistan: Eye of the Storm’.
 
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