Pakistan Is the Enemy - More Xenophobia and Hate from Hitchens

[Solomon2]

Every allegation, article or opinion in the Indian or the western press is portrayed as a "conspiracy against Pakistan not based on facts" (without thinking what it is that everybody is behind). I wonder how could one believe that the whole world is conspiring against you.

The key ideological battle within the P.A. seems to have been fought some nineteen years ago, when Bush I threatened to designate Pakistan as a state sponsor of terrorism in the wake of ISI involvement in the Kashmir terror. Nawaz Sharif should remember this...

During meetings with Platt and the State Dept.'s coordinator of the office of counterterrorism, Peter Burleigh, Pakistani officials flatly denied any official Pakistani involvement in support of terrorist activities. The ISI advised civilian officials dealing with official Americans to ask for evidence from the Americans of Pakistanis activities supporting terrorism. The answers would give the ISI an idea fo the means the U.S. was using for intelligence gathering in Pakistan and would enable it to restructure its effort to evade U.S. detection...

...A few days after the U.S. ambassador delivered the warning, PM Sharif presided over a meeting of senior officials from his secretariat, the MFA, and the armed forces to discuss the new U.S. threat. The army Chief, General Asif Nawaz, and the ISI director general, Lt.G. Javid Nasir, participated. Nasir began by blaming the "Indo-Zionist lobby" in Washington for the changed U.S. attitude toward Pakistan and insisted that Pakistan demand evidence from the United States confirming its allegations. He argued that the jihand in Kashmir wasat a critical stage and could not be disrupted. "We have been covering our tracks so far and will cover them even better in the future," General Nasir said, adding "These are empty threats. The United States will not declare Pakistan a terrorist state. All we need to do is buy more time and improve our diplomatic effort."...Nawaz Sharif agreed with General Nasir's assessment, which reflected the consensus of the meeting. With the exception of two participants, no one saw anything wrong with Pakistan's strategy of supporting the Kashmiri militants. The highest levels of Pakistan's government saw the problem as one of managing the country's relations with the United Staes, not a substantive problem of adopting an incorrect policy. Sharif said that, as long as Pakistan could be useful to the U.S., the U.S. would remain favorably disposed toward Pakistan and would not want to disrupt the relationship built during the Afghan jihad...

- Pakistan, between Mosque and Military, Husain Haqqani. Haqqani claims he was present at the meeting and the account is from his notes. He is currently Pakistan's ambassador to the U.S.

What has happened in twenty years? The stakes are higher for the U.S., Pakistan is more militarized than ever, but anti-terrorist laws are now international, not domestic. The U.S. is wise to Pakistani games and will not burn its sources and methods until after it acts (perhaps not even then, considering what happened after Abbotabad.) Pakistan risks being outlawed not just by the U.S. but by the United Nations - not the non-binding censures Israel often receives but the real kind that ultimately results in cold countries like North Korea, dead Saddams, and on-the-run Qaddafis.

 

[Dr. NooB NinjA]

Guess my analogy doesn't work with weed junkies!
lol

...... lol... that was before man.... m clean now as well as a certified doctor..!!! but yea...i do miss those days..!!!

 

[Dharmachakra]

Taliban still rules majority of the country.

Rules what? Blowing up school buses with road side bombs and sneaking into Kabul wearing a burka to lob a few rpgs in th general direction of the US embassy isnt ruling. Pretty hard to rule from a body bag.

This is the difference inthe words and meanings we follow. Apparently in a Pakistani POV, Ruling means killings, homosides, bomblasts, blasphemies,........ No peace and tenquelity.
If we go by their definitions, then yes, Talibans are ruling the world with Pak as their mentor.

 

[MastanKhan]

What has happened in twenty years? The stakes are higher for the U.S., Pakistan is more militarized than ever, but anti-terrorist laws are now international, not domestic. The U.S. is wise to Pakistani games and will not burn its sources and methods until after it acts (perhaps not even then, considering what happened after Abbotabad.) Pakistan risks being outlawed not just by the U.S. but by the United Nations - not the non-binding censures Israel often receives but the real kind that ultimately results in cold countries like North Korea, dead Saddams, and on-the-run Qaddafis.

Hi,

It won't happen----the stakes are also high for the u s economy---actually they are very very high for the american economy---any mistake and error in any strike--any successful retaliatory strike by pakistan will totally change the scenario in the world economic market.

If it effects the gas prices---and the gas prices go back to 150 a barrell---u s economy is doomed and so is europes----they will vcrash so fast that they won't even know what to do----.

It is a simple fact that the u s has totally failed in afg----after 10 years of occupation, they cannot walk out for a stroll of the front door of their fortresses---they can't even deliver a container truck full of needed cargo from the border at chaman to qandhar without paying payola to taliban for safe passage---.

Now, how this failure leading to its withdrawl going to effect its relationship with other countries in the arena is yet to be seen---.

The U S has a bigger worry on their hands as of now-------there are about 20000 surface to air missiles missing in libya------. They were looted and loaded and taken away from libyan ammo depots---------.

Over the years the u s and the rest of the world had tight control over these missiles---now they are gone-----. Bigger and majoor problems for the u s-----.

 

[Bang Galore]

Hi,

It won't happen----the stakes are also high for the u s economy---actually they are very very high for the american economy---any mistake and error in any strike--any successful retaliatory strike by pakistan will totally change the scenario in the world economic market.

If it effects the gas prices---and the gas prices go back to 150 a barrell---u s economy is doomed and so is europes----they will vcrash so fast that they won't even know what to do----.
.

How will it effect gas prices? Is Pakistan planning on bombing Saudi Arabia?

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

if they have the evidence, why don't they just present it?

by the way the US are in contact with Haqqanis, they have an established line of communication

 

[karan.1970]

if they have the evidence, why don't they just present it?

by the way the US are in contact with Haqqanis, direct line of communication

evidence ??

 

[Kazhugu]

evidence ??

pakistanis dont need to give evidence for their accusation.....rule # 1

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

evidence ??

just quoting the Army Chief and other top officials, just days following a meeting with Admiral Mullen


Several countries in touch with Haqqanis: Kayani | Newspaper | DAWN.COM


check this out too (it was discussed on this forum as well)


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/oct/06/us-afghan-government-contact-haqqani

 

[Solomon2]

It won't happen----the stakes are also high for the u s economy---actually they are very very high for the american economy---

We are NOT the USSR. The Afghan war is a small percentage of our GDP. We'll just take increased expenses out of social entitlement spending, I guess.

any mistake and error in any strike--any successful retaliatory strike by pakistan will totally change the scenario in the world economic market.

Which the U.S., with its extreme diversification and idling infrastructure, should weather better than anyone else.

If it effects the gas prices---and the gas prices go back to 150 a barrell---u s economy is doomed and so is europes---

Nuts. Global economy crashes, so do oil prices.

It is a simple fact that the u s has totally failed in afg--

Maybe fighting the wrong enemy?

The U S has a bigger worry on their hands as of now-------there are about 20000 surface to air missiles missing in libya------. They were looted and loaded and taken away from libyan ammo depots-------

And you think the ISI manufactured this as well? I don't. And if not, it has no issue in our discussion here.

Any more distractions from the thread topic - Pakistani misgovernance and treachery?

- new year approaches, gotta go - back Sunday.

 

[karan.1970]

just quoting the Army Chief and other top officials, just days following a meeting with Admiral Mullen


Several countries in touch with Haqqanis: Kayani | Newspaper | DAWN.COM


check this out too (it was discussed on this forum as well)


US and Afghan governments make contact with Haqqani insurgents | World news | The Guardian

So if army chiefs and officials' words are to be taken on face value then we can also agree that ISI uses terrorists to attack civilians and US forces in Afghanistan..After all Mullen and Panetta both said it..

btw, the photograph in your first link is pretty funny.. Looks like Mullen is about to slap Kayani.. My first impression was that is a photoshopped picture, but doesnt look like...

 

[53fd]

evidence ??

The US were in contact with the Haqqanis before as well:

 

[karan.1970]

The US were in contact with the Haqqanis before as well:

Lots of difference between a 25 year old "were" and today's "are"

 

[53fd]

Lots of difference between a 25 year old "were" and today's "are"

The "are" has already been answered by Abu Zolfiqar, so it is futile to discuss this further.

---------- Post added at 02:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:29 AM ----------

Wonder what's taking the US so long to declare the Haqqanis as a foreign group, after all, they are allegedly responsible for all the massive attacks on the Forces in Afghanistan. This one's a no-brainer, what the hell are they thinking about, if what they are saying about the Haqqanis is true?

If you really think there isn't any contact between the US & the Haqqanis, think again.

 

[SMC]

Every allegation, article or opinion in the Indian or the western press is portrayed as a "conspiracy against Pakistan not based on facts" (without thinking what it is that everybody is behind).

I wonder how could one believe that the whole world is conspiring against you.

1. It's not the whole world, it's bharat and a few western countries.
2. Whether it's a lot of people or a few people, evidence still needs to be presented. Until then, it is RIGHTLY called a conspiracy theory. Suggesting that a lot of people are saying it, therefore it must be true is a fallacy called argumentum ad populum. Bharatis, who tend to be self-made logicians and rationalists should be the first one to know that. A huge number of people believe that 9/11 attacks were inside jobs as well. A lot of people and governments thought Iraq had WMDs.