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Pakistan Is Taking a Dark Turn. It's Time for a New USA Policy.

Hi,

Just look at what happened to Iraq which had no WMD's---.

Now---think about what is going to happen to pakistan that does have WMD's---.

Sarcasm is okay young man---but not at the cost of the disappearance of your civilization.


Cool... I look forward to becoming an American occupied wasteland... Joy joy. Plz nuke us amreeka.

Maybe in the wasteland ISIS occupied land I can become Joe... I await my wives post Apocalypse...


No fear. In today's world only the strong are respected. The weak are occupied.
 
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These issues are merely the most recent offenses committed by the Pakistanis

This is insulting and reflective of a hateful sick mind. People of Pakistan chose through their voting who they want in power ......... and since 2008 it has been third, totally different party and person that has been given the mandate. No other people have shown this much awareness.
 
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Cool... I look forward to becoming an American occupied wasteland... Joy joy. Plz nuke us amreeka.

Maybe in the wasteland ISIS occupied land I can become Joe... I await my wives post Apocalypse...


No fear. In today's world only the strong are respected. The weak are occupied.

Hi,

Just look at the pictures coming from syria, Iraq, AFG, Libya, Yemen and yet you have the audacity to ask for destruction---
 
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Pakistan Is Taking a Dark Turn. It's Time for a New US Policy.

Pakistanis went to the polls last month for elections to choose their provincial and national leaders, and the results were disturbing.

Imran Khan—a 65-year-old former cricket star turned Islamo-nationalist politician—was declared the winner as the country’s new prime minister. His Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf party will be the majority forming a coalition in the national assembly.

The results have not passed without controversy, however. The months leading up to the election were rife with serious concerns, and the results are indicative of significant issues that point to Washington’s need for a serious reassessment of its relationship with Islamabad.

For several years now, well-founded accusations of complicity in incubating and supporting terrorism have existed against the Pakistani government by the United States, India, Afghanistan, and even certain domestic constituencies within the country itself.

At the beginning of this year, the State Department immediately suspended more than $250 million worth of security aid to Pakistan. The State Department cited the South Asian nation’s “failure to take decisive action” against various regional terrorist organizations, including the Haqqani Network and Tehreek-e-Taliban and its material support for such groups.

Those accusations were further vindicated in June when Pakistan was placed on the Financial Action Task Force’s “gray” monitoring list owing to concerns over terrorist financing.

Prior to its placement on the “gray” list, Pakistan made a move that appeared to be in accordance with the need for decisive action against domestic terrorist organizations and their affiliates.

The Election Commission of Pakistan ruled the Milli Muslim League political party ineligible to run in the July election, thereby barring it from holding political office.

The Milli Muslim League was launched in 2017 by Jamaat-ud-Dawa, the political arm of the notorious Lashkar-e-Taiba whose co-founder, Hafiz Muhammad Saeed, is the known mastermind of the Nov. 26, 2008, attacks in Mumbai.

The action was taken by Pakistan only after the U.S. included the Milli Muslim League as a part of Lashkar-e-Taiba’s designation as a Foreign Terror Organization, while several of the Milli Muslim League’s candidates merely switched parties or ran independently as a means of circumventing the ban, moves that the Pakistani government did not act against.

The Pakistani government not only fails to take decisive action against domestic terrorist entities, it routinely engages in the opposite through implicit—as well as explicit—overtures of tolerance toward such entities. In June, the Pakistani government lifted a ban on Ahle Sunnat Wal Jamaat chief Maulana Ahmed Ludhianvi, unfreezing the movement’s financial assets and allowing its leader to purchase firearms and travel abroad.

The Ahle Sunnat Wal Jamaat—formerly the Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan—is an ultraconservative Deobandi organization that has been designated a terrorist entity by the United Kingdom and was by the Pakistani government prior to the ban being lifted in June.

The Ahle Sunnat Wal Jamaat has a close affiliation with the Kashmiri terrorist outfit Jaish-e-Mohammad, and its splinter group Lashkar-e-Jhangvi is responsible for a multitude of terrorist attacks in Pakistan, including the 2013 attack in Quetta that killed more than 200, predominantly Shias.

Ludhianvi has long been known as a radical Sunni extremist, who the Pakistani government for several years had suspected of being linked to terrorist organizations through his role with Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan.

Another major component of ongoing concern is Pakistan’s military establishment, an entity that has directly ruled for approximately half of the nation’s existence, and its known relationships with several homegrown jihadi organizations.

The results of this election represent only the second civilian-to-civilian power transfer in the history of Pakistan’s existence, but reports abounded of the military’s attempt to forcibly influence certain aspects of the vote.

Pakistani soldiers created an intimidating presence with their significant numbers at polling stations across the country, and they were given broad powers to prosecute perceived “corruption” crimes on the spot at their personal discretion.

The military’s interference was also observed in media crackdowns, where censorship or shutdown was threatened toward any outlet critical of the military establishment.

The newest concern on the U.S. radar should be the national election’s biggest victor: Khan and his Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf party.

Khan secured his place as Pakistan’s next prime minister in the election, while his party won 116 of 267 seats to become the majority in the next ruling coalition of the national parliament.

Khan and his party have said many of the right things, and their normative appeal emanates from several sources: the staunch anti-corruption platform on which he and the party campaigned; the idea to transform Pakistan into an Islamic welfare state; and Khan’s personification as a devout Muslim.

Khan’s well-documented association with elements of Islamist radicalism, however, makes for the continuation of an unsettling reality in Pakistan.

As an ethnic Pashtun and Sharia stalwart, Khan has voiced strict support for Pakistan’s blasphemy laws, and he sympathized with the Taliban on a multitude of occasions throughout his political career, earning him the nickname “Taliban Khan” in the process.

In February, Khan’s government in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa provided hundreds of millions of Pakistani rupees in grant funding to the Darul Uloom Haqqania, nicknamed the “University of Jihad” and the alma mater of several terrorist leaders from the Haqqani Network, al-Qaeda, and the Taliban, including the latter’s infamous Mullah Omar.

More recently, Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf inducted Fazlur Rehman Khalil, a U.S.-designated terrorist and leader of Harkat-ul-Mujahideen, into its ranks in a move on par with many of Khan’s documented associations.

Islamist radicals openly running for office, the military’s strongarm influence and actions, and the fact that the big winner of this election is a military-approved terrorist apologist who supports extreme blasphemy laws all demonstrate a cause for serious concern over a country that is currently a major U.S. ally in the region.

The “Islamist radical” aspect of this reality in Pakistan presents a significant physical threat to U.S. personnel and allied Afghan forces in the region, given that these radicals are the same terrorist entities that the U.S. has fought against since the conflict in Afghanistan began in 2001.

Along with the military’s behavior, the Islamist radicalism aspect also presents notable concern over the normative consequences associated with legitimizing such destructive, anti-democratic ideologies and comportment in a nuclear-capable country as unstable as Pakistan.

The issues outlined here demonstrate the need for a serious review of the United States’ foreign policy toward Pakistan.

These issues are merely the most recent offenses committed by the Pakistanis in what is a detrimental pattern of behavior observable for many years now. There has been very little to demonstrate that Pakistan is ready to be a true friend to the United States, and the foreseeable future looks quite bleak in this regard.

It’s time for America to change its Pakistan policy. It’s time for the U.S. government to revoke the Islamic Republic’s major non-NATO ally status.

Source
such things come out to show your failure to make a country a scapegoat for losing a war ongoing for 17 years. Any opportunity is not missed to pin the blame for own shortcomings.
 
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Cool... I look forward to becoming an American occupied wasteland... Joy joy. Plz nuke us amreeka.
Hi,

Just look at the pictures coming from syria, Iraq, AFG, Libya, Yemen and yet you have the audacity to ask for destruction---


Nah... It was their destiny. Doesn't necessarily reflect what will happen to Pakistan.

Death over servitude. Iraq and Syria were destroyed because they were weak not because they were strong.

Be strong and nobody will mess with you.
 
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Here is an enlightening piece: https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/03/0...-nuclear-facility-you-just-found-not-so-much/

Sarcastic but beautifully written.

Let us say that this kind of information is gleaned through multiple techniques and through informants on the ground; and a lot of patterns are observed over time. Ample smoking guns emerge over time, and provide ample clues accordingly. Treasure trove of information in this link: https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB439/

They certainly don't rely upon Think Tanks to acquire this kind of information, but Think Tanks are not amateurs in this game either. A normal person can learn a lot from the disclosures of Think Tanks in this era.

Keep in mind that US is a much older and bigger nuclear power than Pakistan, and have fought a COLD WAR with USSR. They understand this kind of stuff inside out. We think we are really smart in this game, but we are amateurs in comparison to them in reality.

Where they lack smartness they make up for it with money. They have the money to buy our people at all levels and all establishments.
 
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Hi,

Pakistan's nucs mean nothing to the US now---. Each and everyone of them has been tracked---located and accounted for---.

The US can take them out and NEUTER them even before the main force moves out top protect them---.

Never underestimate the american military might---.
How do you know this?
 
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Where they lack smartness they make up for it with money. They have the money to buy our people at all levels and all establishments.
Absolutely, friend.

Some members are just in denial.

Another thing is that you need to station nukes close to TEL. And this kind of infrastructure is impossible to conceal from the prying eyes in this age. Idea is to arm missiles with warheads ASAP.

I have already given the reason above why this whole post is BS.
Dude, you simply react and do not bother to go through provided information. This is why you will not learn and understand.

Why do you think seaborne 2nd strike capabilities are so important? Because a submarine have a good chance in launching its payload before it is caught and taken out. Notice the word 'chance' in this case, as well.

Even if we are able to fire some ballistic missiles in a war, we won't achieve much because Americans will be prepared, and have developed formidable defenses against this kind of stuff. You really need to look outside of Afghanistan and study lot of stuff, to understand where the world is heading and what advances are occurring in the realm of sciences.

Taliban rank really low in American threat perception, because it have regional ambitions. Taliban have also assured Americans [in talks] that they will not provide shelter to terrorists anymore - these days are over. This have the desired effect in American political circles. US haven't committed much force to Afghanistan since 2014, and is not taking the fight to Taliban either. We do not know what they are thinking but I recall this statement of Bush:

"We will starve terrorists of funding, turn them one against another, drive them from place to place, until there is no refuge or no rest."

Pakistan is an entirely different beast in comparison to Taliban on the other hand.
 
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Absolutely, friend.

Some members are just in denial.

Another thing is that you need to station nukes close to TEL. And this kind of infrastructure is impossible to conceal from the prying eyes in this age. Idea is to arm missiles with warheads ASAP.


Dude, you simply react and do not bother to read provided information. This is why you will not learn and understand.

Why do you think seaborne 2nd strike capabilities are so important? Because a submarine have a good chance in launching its payload before it is caught and taken out. Notice the word 'chance' in this case, as well.

Even if we are able to fire some ballistic missiles in a war, we won't achieve anything because Americans will be prepared, and have developed formidable defenses against this kind of stuff. You really need to look outside of Afghanistan and study lot of stuff, to understand where the world is heading and what advances are occurring.

US doesn't take Taliban much seriously as a threat. This is why US is not taking the fight to them anymore. We do not know what they are thinking but I recall this statement of Bush:

"We will starve terrorists of funding, turn them one against another, drive them from place to place, until there is no refuge or no rest."

War gaming and hypothesis aside, does the USA have any real experience of a direct conflict with a nuclear nation?

Scholarly and reality are not the same.
 
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People rant and rave, But what is needed is clarity of thought. And ironclad focus on increasing the costs to US that it tilts the cost/benefit analysis. So if you really and I mean really want to hurt US then do something about it.It requires guts and conviction. Think of Afghanistan. Only four powers/countries hold the keys to Afghanistan as that country is landlocked. Look at the map below.


y0CSHIl.jpg


The countries that hold the keys are Pakistan, Iran, Russia and China. Now think about this. Who has given the key to Afghanistan to USA? Not Iran. Not Russia. Certainly not China. It is Pakistan. How can this happen. US makes b*tch of Pakistan and we give the keys to Afghanistan so that India can slide in and cause us grief. It is incredible when you think about this. Can you imagine India giving keys to China so that we can make b*tches out of India? Can you?


The way forward is join the other three keys. Iran, Russia and China. Then pull the keys back from USA. All you have to do is sit and watch the fun. But to do this Pakistan has to align with Iran, Russia and China. These countries need to unite to teach Uncle Sam a lesson.



Afghan diplomats aren't well liked in diplomatic circles. Why give intl community a reason to rally around them? Blockading a landlocked country would do just that.

Keep the routes open.


Well if you sing scare stories like this then Pakistan might as well keep bent over and give US some lubricant as well. This is exactly the type of thinking that Musharaf displayed when sold or gave the 'Afghan' keys to USA back in 2001 for some $$$. No country on earth sells it's strategic position.

And I am not suggesting Pakistan sign a legal treaty and become bum chums with mullahs in Iran. No. Pakistan simply needs to open up to Iran and align it's interests with the three I mentioned. Iran already is close to Russia.

USA cannot and will not push Pakistan too far. It is a nuclear state. A man who lacks balls will not show any courage even if he has a gatling gun in his hand. Pakistan needs to start flexing it's muscles. The country is too large to be pushed around.


After Afghanistan, the next topic of discussion for yanks is nukes. Followed by China's BRI/CPEC.

I'm okay with U.S. discussing Afghanistan with us for another 17 years. I love mountains. A lot.



Of-course, Pakistani are confused about how to move forward with US. Even I am confused [personally]. Emotions run high. Some believe in adopting tough stance. Some believe in adopting calculated stance [I am in this boat].


None of what folded todays was emotion. You only have to look at recent events.


Of-course, their is a limit to how much we can bend, as a country. US needs to act sensibly as well. When threats turn into status-quo, people become desensitized to them, and this is the stage which is the most worrisome because sensibilities take a backseat afterwards.


There is no reconciliation on the cards, but neither is war, so this is the new normal.


Our most recent diplomatic spate on a statement, wasn't assuring.


Tempering expectations.
 
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I thought these USA bigot were pro democracy

First they give lectures on democracy when we follow Democratic path they again start rundi Rona :)
 
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War gaming and hypothesis aside, does the USA have any real experience of a direct conflict with a nuclear nation?

Scholarly and reality are not the same.

It's high time all Muslim countries with dignity like Turkey, Iran and Malaysia came out of the NPT simultaneously. Is it not yet clear to the Muslims why NPT was formed?
 
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It's high time all Muslim countries with dignity like Turkey, Iran and Malaysia came out of the NPT simultaneously. Is it not yet clear to the Muslims why NPT was formed?

Plus we should station our nuclear weapons in those countries, just as USA had done in Turkey.
 
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