Pakistan is buying Type-022 Houbei stealth catamaran missile boats

[surya kiran]

@Chinese-Dragon could you please explain to our friend, @boke that this is a forum where English is the accepted mode of discussion and not Mandarin. And he should be typing in English or posting in the Chinese section, instead of expecting us to learn Mandarin?

 

[black-hawk_101]

Also, PN is building about 4 more Azmat Class for Sindh Coast too.

So, will China going to supply 4 F-22P Block-2 for Makran coast?
If yes, then we can see a fleet like :-

Sindh Coast:
4 F-22P Block-I
1 OHP ( may be additional 5 OHP)
6 Azmat Class
3 Agosta-90B
4 S-20P Block-II (as Sindh Coast already has 3 Agosta-90B)

Balochistan Coast:
4 F-22P Block-II + 4 F-22P Block-III
6 FAC Type-022 Class
4 S-20P Block-I + 4 S-20P Block-III

 

[mzeeshanfahd]

Also, PN is building about 4 more Azmat Class for Sindh Coast too.

So, will China going to supply 4 F-22P Block-2 for Makran coast?
If yes, then we can see a fleet like :-

Sindh Coast:
4 F-22P Block-I
1 OHP ( may be additional 5 OHP)
6 Azmat Class
3 Agosta-90B
4 S-20P Block-II (as Sindh Coast already has 3 Agosta-90B)

Balochistan Coast:
4 F-22P Block-II + 4 F-22P Block-III
6 FAC Type-022 Class
4 S-20P Block-I + 4 S-20P Block-II

Sir, you forgot to mention the Air fleet .... whether it goes to PN or PAF doesn't matter the primary role would be to provide maritime air cover

 

[black-hawk_101]

Sir, you forgot to mention the Air fleet .... whether it goes to PN or PAF doesn't matter the primary role would be to provide maritime air cover

So am I a bit right about the surface fleet. But I have doubt about the F-22P Block-II as there is a good possibility that Chinese might give Pakistan about 4-6 or may be all of the produced Type-54s which has similar SAMs like the F-22P for Balochistan coast rather than going for a new F-22P Block-II.

For Air Fleet can't say anything yet. If PAF will going to operate jets then PAF has already told that it would going to have a fleet of not more than 400 planes. This might be:
50 F-16 Block-52
150 F-16 Block-15 MUL-3/4
150 JF-17
50 F-31 by 2020

PAF is gaining a good chance F-16 Block-15 as US is giving PAF their remaining 14 F-16 Block-15 along with possibility of acquiring from Jordan, Egypt, Norway and even from the current USAF fleet which is keen to retire many of their F-16 Block-15 and F-16 Block-20/25 soon; but for PAF it's only interest is in F-16 Block-15.

Sorry only 2 of them are available:

Type 054 frigate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Tipu7]

Also, PN is building about 4 more Azmat Class for Sindh Coast too.

So, will China going to supply 4 F-22P Block-2 for Makran coast?
If yes, then we can see a fleet like :-

Sindh Coast:
4 F-22P Block-I
1 OHP ( may be additional 5 OHP)
6 Azmat Class
3 Agosta-90B
4 S-20P Block-II (as Sindh Coast already has 3 Agosta-90B)

Balochistan Coast:
4 F-22P Block-II + 4 F-22P Block-III
6 FAC Type-022 Class
4 S-20P Block-I + 4 S-20P Block-III

Wait is this entire PN.........?

50 F-16 Block-52
150 F-16 Block-15 MUL-3/4
150 JF-17
50 F-31 by 2020

Nope,

No more block 52,
Probably F16 number will not surpass 90.

150 JFT blk 1-2
150 JFT blk 3
90 F16
Possibility of one-two squadron of Su35 also exist.
J31 will appear after 2020.

 

[ice_man]

We won't fire moskit,we will fire brahmos.Against which PN currently has basically no defense.Apart from this there is supersonic Klub.As well as subsonic harpoons,kh-35,sea eagle.
Babur is primarily LACM,even if converted to anti ship role this subsonic missile is not really a threat against barak-8 armed ships which are designed to intercept supersonic sea skimmers.The other 3 anti ship missiles pakistan has in its inventory are Exocet,Harpoon and chinese C-802,C-803.All 3 are subsonic missiles which even barak-1 was deemed enough for.Pakistan has no supersonic sea skimmer that is dedicated anti ship missile.
Recently acquired CM-400 which is supersonic but only HI-HI flight profile incapable of sea skimming and thus easy to detect and shoot down.
My response is not childish,its a fact pakistan has completely neglected the naval arm for way too long and has thus created a major imbalance in this area.



It basically has no defense against enemy cruise missiles like brahmos which has much greater range 300 km officially.
To get within 150 km of a CBG without being attacked by anti-ship missiles of escorts/helicopters ,escorting submarine torpedoing it or being destroyed by carrier borne aircraft would be a feat.In any case its missile can be shot down effectively by active seeker barak-8.

kh-35

when did that become operational?

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

kh-35

when did that become operational?

Been operational for 2 decades.
16 deployed onboard each of the 5 kora class corvettes and 3 delhi class destroyers.Subsonic sea skimmer similar to harpoon.The delhi class replacing them with brahmos now.

 

[ice_man]

Been operational for 2 decades.
16 deployed onboard each of the 5 kora class corvettes and 3 delhi class destroyers.Subsonic sea skimmer similar to harpoon.The delhi class replacing them with brahmos now.

my bad i was getting confused with the K-100 project. which is an Air to Air missile

 

[Quwa]

Ever

So am I a bit right about the surface fleet. But I have doubt about the F-22P Block-II as there is a good possibility that Chinese might give Pakistan about 4-6 or may be all of the produced Type-54s which has similar SAMs like the F-22P for Balochistan coast rather than going for a new F-22P Block-II.

For Air Fleet can't say anything yet. If PAF will going to operate jets then PAF has already told that it would going to have a fleet of not more than 400 planes. This might be:
50 F-16 Block-52
150 F-16 Block-15 MUL-3/4
150 JF-17
50 F-31 by 2020

PAF is gaining a good chance F-16 Block-15 as US is giving PAF their remaining 14 F-16 Block-15 along with possibility of acquiring from Jordan, Egypt, Norway and even from the current USAF fleet which is keen to retire many of their F-16 Block-15 and F-16 Block-20/25 soon; but for PAF it's only interest is in F-16 Block-15.

Sorry only 2 of them are available:

Type 054 frigate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Why do you keep changing your wish list (daily)? One day it's 200 F-16s, and then another day 100 F-16s, and then 10 F-35 for Pak Navy?

 

[MilSpec]

Certain facts you have conveniently left out.
Brahmos is Moskit with a new paint job.

No it's not, expected better from you

Type022 cannot be detected easily, so IF detected then comes the question of Moskit, which again only has the advantage of speed but not impervious to ECCM.

as you suggest in the next line, missiles with supersonic terminal stage,"most definitely not as easy to detect ", but somehow you manage to detect Brahmos - as Moskits in IAF are only used on some frigates

 

[Penguin]

Recently acquired CM-400 which is supersonic but only HI-HI flight profile incapable of sea skimming and thus easy to detect and shoot down.

After launch it climbs to high altitude and terminates with a high speed dive on the target. A missile that dives down at mach 4+ isn't an easy target.

Brahmos does either that (but not at that speed) or a sea skimming all the way flight (with much reduced range)

And lets not pretend supersonic missiles (whether diving or skimming) are unstoppable. It simply means they have to be detected and engaged further out, or else detected and engaged faster.
Goalkeeper and Phalanx can kill them, it's just that the missile debris might hit.

 

[Viper0011.]

After launch it climbs to high altitude and terminates with a high speed dive on the target. A missile that dives down at mach 4+ isn't an easy target.

And lets not pretend supersonic missiles (whether diving or skimming) are unstoppable. It simply means they have to be detected and engaged further out, or else detected and engaged faster. Goalkeeper and Phalanx can kill them, it's just that the missile debris might hit.

Supersonic missiles aren't "unstoppable"!! SM6 would take these out 50-100 miles away from the target (or much further, in the Stratosphere)....whether they are super, sub or space sonic!!

CIWS like Phalanx don't just destroy the missile, the tear up half the missile with special ballistics and the barrage of shells that hits is, has velocity of each shell, which immediately counters the missiles and the missile loses over 70% of its velocity just by getting hit with a few shells. Further more, the warhead explosion puts a stop to any velocity left, and the thing becomes a dud, falling into the ocean. The little peace of shrapnel, if they make it to the ship, don't cause any damage to the hull as their kinetics force has been drained!!

 

[MilSpec]

Precisely the purpose of these boats.....these are hunter-killer stealth boats for high value targets. So Pakistan's extended EX now is around 350-400 miles I think. So your AC (please don't call your lonely AC a CBG lol ), both you and China need another decade and a half to build real CBG's. But if you party your AC, 200 miles out of the Pakistani EEZ to avoid missiles fired at you from the 400 Mile line. Then you'll lose so much attack value its not even funny. That would mean 1200 miles to Karachi on a two way trip on a Maritime mission where plane burn more fuel to take off a carrier with weapons, than on flight. So both Migs and Harriers will have limitations of range due to low fuel. Or you'l sacrifice the weapons load out and will make these loaded jets ducks for advance missiles. There is no happy ending in for anyone here

are you sure this is not a CBG
INS Vikramaditya + 2 Delhi Class Destoryers + 1 Kolkatta class Destoyer+ 2 Talwar Class Frigates + 3 ASW Corvette's+
1 supply ship + 1 Arihant Class Nuclear Sub + 2 Kilo Class subs + 2 P8I
- guess not a CBG by pakistani std though....
Also look up range of SU30 MKI and Jaguar IS stationed for Maritime Strike roles...

- India is not the weaker side here btw...

 

[Viper0011.]

are you sure this is not a CBG
INS Vikramaditya + 2 Delhi Class Destoryers + 1 Kolkatta class Destoyer+ 2 Talwar Class Frigates + 3 ASW Corvette's+
1 supply ship + 1 Arihant Class Nuclear Sub + 2 Kilo Class subs + 2 P8I
- guess a CBG by pakistani std though....
Also look up range of SU30 MKI and Jaguar IS stationed for Maritime Strike roles..- India is not the weaker side here btw...

India is stronger or weaker isn't the point. In Indo-Pak scenario, your AC are like a Hot GF that everyone wants. You want to show her around but you try to keep her away from everyone's reach. So what's the benefit of this AC if it'll be staying 600 miles or more away from the Pakistani cost (meaning 200+ miles away from the Pakistani EEZ).

Also, a STANDARD US CBG has over 30 ships (three zero's) and over 80+ jets, about 4 AWACS, many UCAV's and UAV's and ASW platforms!!! Comparison much???? Naw!!! None in fact!!!!

 

[Indus Falcon]

are you sure this is not a CBG
INS Vikramaditya + 2 Delhi Class Destoryers + 1 Kolkatta class Destoyer+ 2 Talwar Class Frigates + 3 ASW Corvette's+
1 supply ship + 1 Arihant Class Nuclear Sub + 2 Kilo Class subs + 2 P8I
- guess a CBG by pakistani std though....
Also look up range of SU30 MKI and Jaguar IS stationed for Maritime Strike roles...

- India is not the weaker side here btw...

A TT insulting Pakistan?

@Icarus @Horus @waz @Jungibaaz @Jango