Pakistan intelligence rift shows deepening US frustration: analysts

[IceCold]

Those taking the word of the CIA as 'Gospel' need to remember that it is an intelligence agency of the United States set up to further the interests of the United States, not some charitable, neutral NGO trying to present an objective and fair analysis of world affairs.

To project, protect and further US interests is all the agency stands for, and at the moment, given the frustration within the US military establishment at the refusal of the GoP to be proactive, and the refusal of the military to take a front seat (rightly so, it is not its job to be determining which policy to follow), the interests of the US stand in getting the GoP to do what it wants in FATA.

And therefore we are starting to see this concerted drive to shift blame onto a secondary 'state within a state' actor.

The goals are clear, pressure the GoP to take action where it has so far been unwilling to, and in that respect the motivation behind these series of articles and 'revelations' is far from clean.

Well said. I actually wanted to rep you up, almost forgot that thanks is the way to go design by webby. lol

 

[zpak]

Given that all these accusations are invented to pressurize Pakistan, onewould be concerned at the reaction of the Pakistani government. So far I think the reactions by the current government have been quite weak. One would hope that the current government doesnt just tank and submit to all this pressure.

 

[Spring Onion]

Given that all these accusations are invented to pressurize Pakistan, onewould be concerned at the reaction of the Pakistani government. So far I think the reactions by the current government have been quite weak. One would hope that the current government doesnt just tank and submit to all this pressure.

The strongest reaction would be to halt all oil supplies to NATO in Afghanistan.

ISI should halt all the Intel sharing with CIA.

Seal the Pak-Afghan Border by mining it.

Install biomateric system at Pak-Afghan border.

Shoot down any plan violating Pak airspace.

 

[nitesh]

The strongest reaction would be to halt all oil supplies to NATO in Afghanistan.

ISI should halt all the Intel sharing with CIA.

Seal the Pak-Afghan Border by mining it.

Install biomateric system at Pak-Afghan border.

Shoot down any plan violating Pak airspace.

You are suggesting an all out war don't you?

 

[GHATAK]

The strongest reaction would be to halt all oil supplies to NATO in Afghanistan.

ISI should halt all the Intel sharing with CIA.

Seal the Pak-Afghan Border by mining it.

Install biomateric system at Pak-Afghan border.

Shoot down any plan violating Pak airspace.

Good plan.

 

[IceCold]

ISI is exposed now.

VOA News - US Implicates Pakistani Agents in Kabul Bomb Attack

Pak violation of LoC also features in the news article.

Don't quote the same old BS story with different links. They are quoting the same old NYT and Washington times as their source and taking a story out of it. Nothing new. It will take much more then mere words to accuse ISI of anything.

 

[Niazi9]

The strongest reaction would be to halt all oil supplies to NATO in Afghanistan.

ISI should halt all the Intel sharing with CIA.

Seal the Pak-Afghan Border by mining it.

Install biomateric system at Pak-Afghan border.

Shoot down any plan violating Pak airspace.

We could annoy the US by doing that and I would love to see the reaction after we down a US plane but we don't live in your BS Jana jingoistic world now do we?

Just consider how much more diverse their response can be. Heck the US Fleets in the PG and AS itself can blockade us navally not counting the IN. So basically going with your logic train you'd have us voluntarily become a failed state all over some azzholes in the ISI who still think we're in the 90's.

 

[IceCold]

We could annoy the US by doing that and I would love to see the reaction after we down a US plane but we don't live in your BS Jana jingoistic world now do we?

Just consider how much more diverse their response can be. Heck the US Fleets in the PG and AS itself can blockade us navally not counting the IN. So basically going with your logic train you'd have us voluntarily become a failed state all over some azzholes in the ISI who still think we're in the 90's.

I don't know who you are or from where you are but if you are a Pakistani, its better if you get out of this paranoia of yours and get some self respect in your self which Pakistanis seem to be short of these days. Are you suggesting that we should close all eyes to what is happening in fear of what will happen if the world's sole supper power gets angry and in return cripple our own interests right under our very own feet. You need to wake up. PA isn't a push over that any one can come and take a control of it. We are the world's seventh largest army and considered one of the best in the business. If you have no faith in yourself have at least some in the armed forces of Pakistan before crying out loud about this self created fear of yours.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The strongest reaction would be to halt all oil supplies to NATO in Afghanistan.

ISI should halt all the Intel sharing with CIA.

Seal the Pak-Afghan Border by mining it.

Install biomateric system at Pak-Afghan border.

Shoot down any plan violating Pak airspace.

You are suggesting an all out war don't you?

This does not even come close to all out war - all out war would be when Pakistan refuses to allow the eighty percent of NATO supplies to pass through.

Barring the 'shoot down' suggestion, everything else is pretty reasonable, and Pakistan should move on it.

The 'intel sharing; should also continue - remember that Pakistan complains that it is the US which is not sharing Intel, and lets not validate the US's propaganda by not continuing to capture AQ assets.

But yes, it is high time to tell the US and GoA to go to hell and start fencing and mining the border. It will keep both the infiltrators and US ground troops out, and one wonders whether that was the original cause for the lack of enthusiasm from the US side to the proposal...

 

[Niazi9]

I don't know who you are or from where you are but if you are a Pakistani, its better if you get out of this paranoia of yours and get some self respect in your self which Pakistanis seem to be short of these days. Are you suggesting that we should close all eyes to what is happening in fear of what will happen if the world's sole supper power gets angry and in return cripple our own interests right under our very own feet. You need to wake up. PA isn't a push over that any one can come and take a control of it. We are the world's seventh largest army and considered one of the best in the business. If you have no faith in yourself have at least some in the armed forces of Pakistan before crying out loud about this self created fear of yours.

Not at all. See your immediate reaction is an appeal to emotion where you go off an jingoistiic tirade. Of course I know my people and my nation are indominable. I don't need to be scared into shutting off my cerebrum either.

My whole point is that we shouldn't stick our heads in the sand and not admit that we have problem that has come to full fruition now that the US and the rest of the world will not indulge the ISI.

I'm suggesting that we man up and admit that paradigm has shifted. We cannot have parallel policy run by the ISI blowing isht up willy nilly anymore. All it takes is some buffoon to order a similar attack on a US or NATO facility and they unlike India will consider that an act of War.

 

[x_man]

VOA News - US Implicates Pakistani Agents in Kabul Bomb Attack

Pak violation of LoC also features in the news article.

ISI is exposed now.

Finally some shoulder to lean onto…good for you…

Accusing is one thing and proving is another….Accusations are all meaningless if you have nothing to substantiate or validate your claim to…

May be it is honourable to be accused by those who deserve to be accused…

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Now, the important questions:

1. Why was this done?

2. What deos the US expect to gain from this?

3. Pakistan's options?

Gotta run, but will try and reply later...

 

[BanglaBhoot]

ISI Targeted For Uncovering American Betrayal

The question that arises here is this: Why has this anti-ISI campaign been launched all of sudden when the ISI is considered to be a major tool in crushing terrorism and extremism? The ISI is suddenly the target of Washington, New Delhi and Karzai because the Pakistani spy agency has solved the mystery behind the funding and arming of anti-Pakistan insurgency in Balochistan and NWFP. The trail of evidence leads all the way to gates of CIA at Langley and RAW in New Delhi. ISI has handed over more than 500 terrorists to the Americans, but CIA has been backstabbing Pakistan by supporting terrorism against Islamabad. If one goes by the sequence of the anti-ISI statements by the Indians, by the Americans, by the Afghanis and the stance of pro-CIA media of the United States, it can be very easily figured out that there is a motivated campaign against the ISI, well coordinated by the American, the Indian and the Afghani leaderships.

By MAKHDOOM BABAR

Editor-in-Chief, The Daily Mail
Friday, 1 August 2008.
Ahmed Quraishi-Pakistan/Middle East politics, Iraq war, lebanon war, India Pakistan relations

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan—A leading U.S. newspaper, The New York Times, has reported that Pakistan’s premier intelligence agency ISI (Inter Services Intelligence) has links with the local militants and the Taliban. Earlier, the U.S. President, Mr. George W. Bush, according to Pakistan’s defense Minister Mr. Ahmad Mukhtar, had expressed reservations over the functioning of ISI. Before that, the Indian national Security Advisor stated that ISI must be eliminated.

If one goes by the sequence of the anti-ISI statements by the Indians, by the Americans, by the Afghanis and the stance of pro-CIA media of the United States, it can be very easily figured out that there is a motivated campaign against the ISI, well coordinated by the American, the Indian and the Afghani leaderships.

As a comprehensive campaign, certain hands are constantly engaged in mudslinging and image tarnishing of Pakistan’s premier intelligence agency that is considered to be the main custodian of Pakistan’s security and is playing a very vital role in ensuring regional and global peace by eliminating terrorism.
The question that arises here is this: Why has this anti-ISI campaign been launched all of sudden when the ISI is considered to be a major tool in crushing terrorism and extremism?

The Daily Mail believes very strongly that this is because the ISI has solved the mystery behind the funding of the local militants and Taliban and it has discovered that the trail ends at the gates of Langley [the CIA headquarters] and New Delhi, since there a clear evidences that the American CIA and Indian RAW are in fact indirectly funding Baitullah Mehsood and other militants in Pakistan.

There are certain elements that are playing the role of a bridge between RAW-CIA and the local militants and are providing them with finances to continue their holy Jihad against the Pakistani State. The objective is to maintain a state of chaos and instability in Pakistan so that Pakistan’s nuke assets can finally be targeted. When the ISI figured it out, it perturbed all the dirty players of the game and a motivated and well-coordinated campaign was launched.

 

[muse]

Readers may also want to review "Trilateral Alliance" on this board


Regional Security 101 — Ejaz Haider



The Americans have decided to play hardball with Pakistan. See the chronology of events:

July 7: A bomb outside the Indian embassy in Kabul kills some 60 people including India’s defence attaché, a brigadier. Kabul accuses Pakistan of sponsoring the attack. The Indian National Security Advisor, M K Narayanan, points a direct finger at the ISI and says the agency “must be destroyed”.

July 12: Adm Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, comes to Pakistan on a sudden visit. The same day, we now know, CIA’s deputy director Stephen R Kappes travels to Pakistan and joins Mullen in his straight talk with Pakistani officials including the prime minister, the president, the army chief, the Pakistani chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the director-general ISI.

July 26: On the eve of his departure to the United States on the first official visit, Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani signs a notification under Rule 3 (3) of the Rules of Business, 1973, approving the placement of ISI and IB under the overall control of the Interior Ministry.

Later that day Mr Asif Ali Zardari, co-chairman of the ruling PPP, gives a media interview and calls the step “historic” stressing that now no one will say the ISI is not under civilian control.

July 27: The earlier notification is reversed through a hurriedly drafted press release. The release regrets the misinterpretation of the earlier notification and promises to clarify matters through a detailed notification which remains stillborn.

July 30: Just a day before the Pakistani delegation is to return, a US newspaper, The New York Times, is fed a leak about Kappes’ visit to Pakistan earlier in the month and what was discussed.

One unnamed US official, according to the story, told the NYT, “It was a very pointed message saying, ‘Look, we know there’s a connection, not just with [Taliban leader Jalaluddin] Haqqani but also with other bad guys and ISI, and we think you could do more and we want you to do more about it.’”

The same day CIA chief Michael V Hayden meets with Prime Minister Gilani and reportedly gives him evidence of ISI’s involvement with jihadi outfits and insists that the agency be leashed.

July 31: Prime Minister Gilani’s Advisor on Interior, Rehman Malik, speaks to the media in Washington: “The time has come for us to reveal the facts and tell the world how outside forces are creating troubles in Pakistan...India wants to destabilise FATA. What India and [Afghan President] Mr Karzai are doing must stop. They must stop this. They must stop this.” He confirms his being on the record.

The same day, in a perfect tango move, a first for this government, Prime Minister Gilani hits back at the US while speaking at a joint meeting of two think-tanks, the Council on Foreign Relations and the Middle East Institute: “If we are not able to control them [Taliban], you are not able to control them [either],” he said.

Let’s connect the dots.

It should be clear that the Americans are ignoring the evidence of Indian activities against Pakistan’s interests in Afghanistan but are ready to act when they find the evidence (or are given it) of Pakistan’s involvement inside Afghanistan against either Afghan or Indian interests.

There are two obvious reasons: one, if Pakistan were to act to checkmate Indian perfidy, of necessity it has no other proxies but the ones the US, the current Afghan government and also other western governments consider as a threat to them.

Two, America thinks it is in its interest to (a) continue on the current path of thickening its partnership with India and (b) to cleanse this area, Afghanistan and Pakistan’s tribal belt, of what it considers Islamist extremist groups. It will not allow Pakistan, as far as it can, to use some combination of these elements to check India and force Kabul to fall in line and prevent India from fishing in Balochistan and FATA.

Mr Malik’s statement is important in so far as he has also mentioned a steady stream of other foreigners — Uzbeks and Chechens — coming into FATA. At least these two nationalities have to take an overland route through Afghanistan to reach Pakistan’s tribal areas. The west-east movement of hostile elements into Pakistan is as much a problem for Islamabad as the east-west movement across the Durand Line is for Kabul.

Washington must realise that it cannot do two things simultaneously. It cannot hope for Pakistan to help it stabilise Afghanistan while India remains unchecked in that country. (If some evidence is to be believed, Russia may also be fishing in the troubled Afghan waters by inducting weapon systems like shoulder-fired SAMs and linking up with Afghan drug cartels through Russian and Eastern European mafia groups.) Also, America cannot ignore its own failure in controlling Afghanistan and increasing the capacity of Mr Karzai’s government to be effective.

As for Pakistan’s links with the Haqqani network, it was Mr Karzai who wanted Mr Haqqani to become the prime minister of Afghanistan. In the intricate game of controlling insurgencies and checkmating multiple actors, states do not have the luxury of taking a neat, linear course. If that weren’t so, the Americans at one time would not have approached Haqqani after he voiced his opposition to Mullah Omar; also the Americans would not be playing ball with a bevy of rascals inside Afghanistan to prevent the pot from boiling over.

So yes, Pakistan has had links with the Taliban and other such groups and still does. But anyone who knows what it means to fight an irregular war against a protean enemy and in an environment full of interested actors also knows that nothing can be gained without such linkages. In fact the issue is not linkages but the lack thereof which can throw up the bigger problem of embedding assets and acquiring effective intelligence. But that is another topic.

Here’s the summary of Regional Security 101 for all actors.

America should focus on stabilising Afghanistan and do so keeping in view Pakistani sensibilities. It cannot hope to get full Pakistani cooperation if it is seen as biased towards the Kabul-Delhi nexus against Pakistan.

Afghanistan, if it wants good neighbourly relations with Pakistan, must not punch above its weight. While it is free to have relations with any state, it is joined at the hip with Pakistan more than with any other state. It simply cannot afford to ignore the facts of history, geography and economics.

India should remember that it cannot stay wedded on the surface to the normalisation process but decide to keep Pakistan’s western borders simmering. New Delhi hopes to keep the Pakistan army stuck there and force Islamabad through international pressure and internal security threats to lose its (Pakistan’s) bargaining edge against India over time. It might appear a smart strategy but ignores not only Pakistan’s ability to survive it but also its capacity to strike back.

Finally, Pakistan needs to have a debate on what our foreign and security policy parameters are and how and through what means they can be achieved. It is all too well to play such games but we must be very clear on what the strategic objectives are and what kind of tactical and sub-strategic moves are likely to gain for us those strategic objectives.

Ejaz Haider is Consulting Editor of The Friday Times and Op-Ed Editor of Daily Times. He can be reached at sapper@dailytimes.com.pk

 

[muse]

Agnostic

What, if anything do these events have to do with the new so called "trade" policy and the deliberate neglect of relations with CHina -- Mr. Ikram Saigal, contends Pakistan is being "sold" - if the US$$ 15 billion package is anything to go by and the promise of more