Pakistan in talks for 4 Ada Class Corvettes, T-129 Helicopters & modernization of agosta fleet

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Azmat Class Ship is ideal for Small Ship category
We need about 6-8 More Azmat level ships , which we produce 1-2 unit per year

 

[The Eagle]

FACs discussion be carried in respective thread, please.

Thanks.

 

[Kamil_baku]

During IDEAS 2016 the PN said they needed another 4~6 "high speed warships" (I guess FACs) from China and/or Turkey. STM had revealed and offered the FAC-55 back then. I think one option (to save costs) would be to actually fit the MRTP-33 with the Atmaca AShM (when available) and add another 2~4 such ships. These are smaller and shorter-range/endurance than the Azmat FAC, but with the Damen OPV and Swift Corvettes coming, I think the focus now is to build out the littoral AShW force (as the offshore patrol element is being addressed with Damen/Swiftships). With the infrastructure in place, an AShM-equipped MRTP-33 would make for a good option.

The problem is you cannot equip mrtp-33 with smart radar which can track 250km and basically also shot that far.

You can equip mrtp-33 with those antiship missiles but you also gotta need network warfare war, which Pakistan and most of the rest of the world dont have it.

I believe fac-55 will be the real killer as because of its 55-60 knots speed, it doesnt afraid of any submarine attack and can strike the missiles and come back to cover from the missiles coming from opposite side..

 

[Tank131]

The problem is you cannot equip mrtp-33 with smart radar which can track 250km and basically also shot that far.

You can equip mrtp-33 with those antiship missiles but you also gotta need network warfare war, which Pakistan and most of the rest of the world dont have it.

I believe fac-55 will be the real killer as because of its 55-60 knots speed, it doesnt afraid of any submarine attack and can strike the missiles and come back to cover from the missiles coming from opposite side..

Fac-55 wouls be great, but actually Pakistans net centric warfare isnt bad and is developing rapidly with strong datalinks bbeing used in the form of Link 16 for western equipment and the indigenous Link 17 which can be utilized across the board (except F-16 i believe). This means ZDK-03 can likely communicate with MRTP-33, F-22P and in the future, MILGEM and type 054A and guide not only their 200km+ missiles but likely the longer range missiles at least out to 450km.

 

[YeBeWarned]

how would a Ship perform if its tracking Radar range is smaller than the Missiles they are carrying ?
@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Gryphon @Tank131 @cabatli_53

 

[Gryphon]

how would a Ship perform if its tracking Radar range is smaller than the Missiles they are carrying ?
@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Gryphon @Tank131 @cabatli_53

Ships with short range radar, like Azmat FAC-M, will rely on other radars (those on MPA's, helicopters, land based radars and frigate/corvette based medium/long range radars) for detecting/tracking the targets. It would require tracking data to be continuously transmitted through a data-link. Once the missile is in the terminal phase, the active seeker itself tracks the target.

On the MRTP-33, I don't think we will see those 6 m+ missiles because those are faster ships and turn sharply during peacetime/wartime missions. Should get 4x Harpoon Block 2 or 3/4x RBS15 Mk3.

*Sorry for off topic post.

 

[Kamil_baku]

Ships with short range radar, like Azmat FAC-M, would rely on other radars (those on MPA's, helicopters, land based long range radars) for detecting/tracking the targets. It would require tracking data to be continuously transmitted through a data-link. Once the missile is in the terminal phase, the active seeker will itself track the target.

The problem is if you are going to use mpt-33 as fast attack boat to deliver missiles, you have rely on your own radar unless you are defending the shore.

Imagine you wanna hit the target from 300km away. If you bring big ship with you to send you the coordinates of the opposite ship, you actually make the big ship a target. On the other hand, if their radar see it, they can also shot the missiles, why do we need mprt-33 then? Unless you dont use it for defence purposes of shore
On the other hand you make the ship vulnerable to submarine attacks too by going to the target which enemy submarines might hide and waiting for you to come.

Helicopters can not see too far compared to ship based radar.

 

[Gryphon]

The problem is if you are going to use mpt-33 as fast attack boat to deliver missiles, you have rely on your own radar unless you are defending the shore.

Imagine you wanna hit the target from 300km away. If you bring big ship with you to send you the coordinates of the opposite ship, you actually make the big ship a target. On the other hand, if their radar see it, they can also shot the missiles, why do we need mprt-33 then? Unless you dont use it for defence purposes of shore
On the other hand you make the ship vulnerable to submarine attacks too by going to the target which enemy submarines might hide and waiting for you to come.

Helicopters can not see too far compared to ship based radar.

MRTP-33 and other FAC/FAC-M have low draught for operating close to the shore. If the data-link is active, a larger ship, say CSOC 4000 ton frigate, can track enemy targets near the shore while operating hundreds of km's away. It would make sense to use the AShM's on the MRTP-33 because once the ship has exhausted its 4 missiles, it can proceed for a faster reloading.

Helicopters have long range radars as well. The Leonardo Seaspray 5000E AESA radar has a range upto 200 nm. PN Sea Kings were upgraded with Leonardo Seaspray 5300, more range?

 

[Hell hound]

Helicopters have long radars as well. The Leonardo Seaspray 5000E AESA radar has a range upto 200 nm. PN Sea Kings were upgraded with Leonardo Seaspray 5300, more range?

when did that happen? got any link or pic

 

[Gryphon]

when did that happen? got any link or pic

http://www.monch.com/mpg/news/air/1811-vector.html

http://www.janes.com/article/74428/pakistan-navy-test-fires-anti-ship-missile-from-sea-king-helo

 

[Amigator]

ADA Class Corvette in Turkish Navy Specifications

Characteristics:
Displacement: 2300 tons, full load
Dimensions: 99 x 14.4 x 3.75 metres
Speed, Range: 15 knots economical, 29+ knots maximum, 3500 miles at 15 knots.
Crew: 93

Weapons:
Guns: 1 x 76mm, 2 x 12,7mm
Missiles:
8 x Harpoon SSM;
Mk-144 Guided Missile Launcher: 21 x RAM SAM
Torpedoes: 2 x 324 mm Mk 32 triple launcher for Mk 46 Mod 5; anti-submarine torpedoes.
Helicopters: 1 x S-70-B2 Seahawk

Sensors:
Radars: SMART-S Mk2 3D air/surface search; Sting fire control; ALPER navigation
Sonars: Search/attack
Other: ASELFLIR 300D, ARES-2N ESM system

Comments:
MİLGEM is the first indigenous ship building project staged in Turkey. Turkish Navy is responsible for the initial design and for the determining technical specification of the weapon, sensor, machinery and other sub systems. UDI is responsible of purchasing these systems.

The missions of MİLGEM class are showing the flag, search/rescue, patrol, observation and anti submarine warfare.

The sonar of MİLGEM class is being produced in Turkey. The 12,7mm machine guns on the aft are mounted of ASELSAN build STAMP (Stabilized Machine Gun Platform) and they are controlled remotely.

The keel of the first ships TCG Heybeliada was laid on 26th July 2005 in Istanbul Naval Ship Yard and she was launched on 27 September 2008. The sea trials for the first ship started in October 2010.

The second ship, TCG Büyükada was launched on 27th September 2011 and on the same day TCG Heybeliada was commissioned. On 27 September 2013, TCG Büyükada was commissioned into Turkish Navy and the keel for the third ship F-513 TCG Burgazada was laid. she was launched in June 2016.

The last ship was launched on 3 July 2017.

The Mk-144 Guided Missile Launcher (GML) unit weighs 5,777 kilograms (12,736 lb 2 oz) and stores 21 missiles. The original weapon cannot employ its own sensors prior to firing so it must be integrated with a ship's combat system, which directs the launcher at targets. On American ships it is integrated with the AN/SWY-2 Ship Defense Surface Missile System (SDSMS) and Ship Self Defense System (SSDS) Mk 1 or Mk 2 based combat systems.

Used for:
RIM-116 Rolling Airframe Missile (RAM)

Specifications
Weight 5,777 kg (12,736 lb) (launcher)
73.5 kilograms (162 lb 1 oz) (missile)
Length 2.79 m (9 ft 2 in) (missile)
Warhead blast fragmentation warhead
Warhead weight 11.3 kg (24 lb 15 oz)
Wingspan 434 mm (17.1 in)
Propellant solid
Operational
range
9 km (5.6 mi)
Speed In excess of Mach 2 (1,522 mph; 2,450 km/h)
Guidance
system
three modes—passive radio frequency/infrared homing, infrared only, or infrared dual mode enabled (radio frequency and infrared homing)
Launch
platform
Mk 144 Guided Missile Launcher (GML) of the Mk 49 Guided Missile Launching System (GMLS)

 

[HRK]

but you also gotta need network warfare war, which Pakistan and most of the rest of the world dont have it.

all of our defence forces are netcentric we initiated that project around 10-12 years back

 

[Max]

Can recent US attitude toward Pakistan effect this purchase?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Can recent US attitude toward Pakistan effect this purchase?

So far the attitude has been leveled at conditioning military assistance funding to targeting Haqqani et.al. However, if it exceeds even that, then it would affect the availability of the Harpoon, RAM and Mk46 munitions. Pakistan can get alternatives for each, e.g. Atmaca AShM and Aselsan Orka from Turkey for the Harpoon and Mk46, respectively and the Chinese FL-3000N or Thales Crotale Naval Mk3 for the RAM.

 

[Army research]

So far the attitude has been leveled at conditioning military assistance funding to targeting Haqqani et.al. However, if it exceeds even that, then it would affect the availability of the Harpoon, RAM and Mk46 munitions. Pakistan can get alternatives for each, e.g. Atmaca AShM and Aselsan Orka from Turkey for the Harpoon and Mk46, respectively and the Chinese FL-3000N or Thales Crotale Naval Mk3 for the RAM.

I know this is off topic , but what would happen to the falcon fleet ?