Pakistan in talks for 4 Ada Class Corvettes, T-129 Helicopters & modernization of agosta fleet

[Bilal Khan 777]

Type 21 is not American, yet Harpoon and phalanx was installed on it. By that account, Nasr is Chinese yet Phalanx installation. Harpoon and Phalanx both are independent systems that can be installed on any ship that can support the gun base, have the power for it, and can handle the launcher and launch kinematics. It has nothing to do with Ships origins.

How effective Point AD systems like RAM and FL-3000 will be against Brahmos ?

Its not the missile thats the issue. Its detection and tracking. A SS cruise / ASM is usually not tracked by your standard systems that cancel doppler at a particular velocity to keep clutter out. Also, when a SS missile crosses the horizon at 20 Km, flying 600+ knots, imagine the reaction time left for a ship/base? The only system able to track a SS Cruise / ASM is a IRST in MWiR sensor fused with NIR. So, once you are able to detect or track, and you have an automated response system that only requires push of a button for launch (search, track designation is auto, so is guidance), you can potentially stop a SS like Yakhount (the daddy of Brahmos). The problem remains of Kinetic energy. Even if you defilgrate the SOB at 4000 yard, you will still get rained/hit by the debris. SS missiles are a real pain in the stern.

 

[Gryphon]

Type 21 is not American, yet Harpoon and phalanx was installed on it. By that account, Nasr is Chinese yet Phalanx installation. Harpoon and Phalanx both are independent systems that can be installed on any ship that can support the gun base, have the power for it, and can handle the launcher and launch kinematics. It has nothing to do with Ships origins.

There was one on the PNS Moawin as well.

 

[MastanKhan]

so it means PN is building a ship around harpoons, logic does not fit it. dont we build missile for a boat not boat fro a missile.

Hi,

Missiles are already built---it is easier to build a boat to accommodate them.

 

[Blue Marlin]

Type 21 is not American, yet Harpoon and phalanx was installed on it. By that account, Nasr is Chinese yet Phalanx installation. Harpoon and Phalanx both are independent systems that can be installed on any ship that can support the gun base, have the power for it, and can handle the launcher and launch kinematics. It has nothing to do with Ships origins.



Its not the missile thats the issue. Its detection and tracking. A SS cruise / ASM is usually not tracked by your standard systems that cancel doppler at a particular velocity to keep clutter out. Also, when a SS missile crosses the horizon at 20 Km, flying 600+ knots, imagine the reaction time left for a ship/base? The only system able to track a SS Cruise / ASM is a IRST in MWiR sensor fused with NIR. So, once you are able to detect or track, and you have an automated response system that only requires push of a button for launch (search, track designation is auto, so is guidance), you can potentially stop a SS like Yakhount (the daddy of Brahmos). The problem remains of Kinetic energy. Even if you defilgrate the SOB at 4000 yard, you will still get rained/hit by the debris. SS missiles are a real pain in the stern.

the brahmos is a hi-hi-low missile id imagine detecting it at high altitudes before it descends would be relatively "easy" something like along range umkhonto with an ir seeker would suffice or even the hq-16 which would not even need to get close to it as that has a relatively large fragmenting warhead

and the upgraded 11 barrel ciws which has its own ir and radar which enables it to act almost independently

we need to see how capable the milgem is when it come to having a s band radar sufficient for tracking and x band radars too. @cabatli_53 your input would be appreciated here....

as for the type 54a or which ever variant is chosen we need to see what sensor package will come with it.

something like the empar or the Sampson is needed and would cause india to go along with a long range sea skimming subsonic asm, which i think are more lethal in my opinion.

 

[Oublious]

Type 21 is not American, yet Harpoon and phalanx was installed on it. By that account, Nasr is Chinese yet Phalanx installation. Harpoon and Phalanx both are independent systems that can be installed on any ship that can support the gun base, have the power for it, and can handle the launcher and launch kinematics. It has nothing to do with Ships origins.



Its not the missile thats the issue. Its detection and tracking. A SS cruise / ASM is usually not tracked by your standard systems that cancel doppler at a particular velocity to keep clutter out. Also, when a SS missile crosses the horizon at 20 Km, flying 600+ knots, imagine the reaction time left for a ship/base? The only system able to track a SS Cruise / ASM is a IRST in MWiR sensor fused with NIR. So, once you are able to detect or track, and you have an automated response system that only requires push of a button for launch (search, track designation is auto, so is guidance), you can potentially stop a SS like Yakhount (the daddy of Brahmos). The problem remains of Kinetic energy. Even if you defilgrate the SOB at 4000 yard, you will still get rained/hit by the debris. SS missiles are a real pain in the stern.

http://www.aselsan.com.tr/en-us/cap...ared-imaging-infrared-search-and-track-system

 

[TheDarkKnight]

Type 21 is not American, yet Harpoon and phalanx was installed on it. By that account, Nasr is Chinese yet Phalanx installation. Harpoon and Phalanx both are independent systems that can be installed on any ship that can support the gun base, have the power for it, and can handle the launcher and launch kinematics. It has nothing to do with Ships origins.

What you said makes sense from a technical perspective. But what about the diplomatic and legal perspective? Can US object to this in the same manner when PAF armed AIM9 missiles on F7 without their permission?

 

[Gryphon]

Hi,

Missiles are already built---it is easier to build a boat to accommodate them.

It would make sense to have the C-802's moved from the F-22P's to the Milgem corvettes in the future. Zarb (C-602?) is a better option for the F-22P.

What you said makes sense from a technical perspective. But what about the diplomatic and legal perspective? Can US object to this in the same manner when PAF armed AIM9 missiles on F7 without their permission?

Reportedly, some 'restrictions' were placed in the past.

 

[Tank131]

I think the MTP-33s will become fully operational once Atacama AShMs come online. You will likely see a small surge in these with 6-10 total being acquired in my estimate. That would provide good policing and a high speed deterent to break any attempt at blockade. Their speed and maneuverability along with their small size will make them difficult targets for AShM but their 4 long range 200km AShM will keep them well out of range of guns like ciws which could target the boat with greater ease. Imagine the iranian navy FAC swarm with actually long range heavy AShMs.

 

[Gryphon]

I think PN will standardize the C-802A (Harba?). Atmaca would be an unnecessary addition of another type - when there is a sizable inventory of Harpoon Block 1/2 and C-802/C-802A.

What is the range of MRTP-33's radar?

 

[cabatli_53]

I think PN will standardize the C-802A (Harba?). Atmaca would be an unnecessary addition of another type - when there is a sizable inventory of Harpoon Block 1/2 and C-802/C-802A.

What is the range of MRTP-33's radar?

MRTP-33 doesn't have a surveillance or fire control radar but standart marine navigation radar something like Kelvin Hughes, Furuno, Sperry Marine or JRC. If It is requested, She can be modified to fire related missiles against targets detected/tracked by other bigger surface units thanks to advanced link capability. If It is Temren missile (Naval variant of Mizrak-U ATGM with ~17km range) to be integrated on MRTP-33 as Anti-ship missile, She would just need EO search & tracking units instead of radar.

Old design activities for Harpoons on MRTP-33 !

 

[syed_yusuf]

I think herba is not c802a but something different more like c302 or cx1

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

The MRTP-33 platform , is a post modernization , fine tuneup type unit for Pakistan Navy , a quick hit and run platform.

However that platform and approach comes handy when you have completed the origional requirement for Large Battleships

Certainly down the road after we induct sufficent large ships , we can perhaps create a 12-22 ship MRTP force for fast response in hot zones

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

What you said makes sense from a technical perspective. But what about the diplomatic and legal perspective? Can US object to this in the same manner when PAF armed AIM9 missiles on F7 without their permission?

For this reason you will not see them going on Chinese platforms as likely.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I think the MTP-33s will become fully operational once Atacama AShMs come online. You will likely see a small surge in these with 6-10 total being acquired in my estimate. That would provide good policing and a high speed deterent to break any attempt at blockade. Their speed and maneuverability along with their small size will make them difficult targets for AShM but their 4 long range 200km AShM will keep them well out of range of guns like ciws which could target the boat with greater ease. Imagine the iranian navy FAC swarm with actually long range heavy AShMs.

MRTP-33 doesn't have a surveillance or fire control radar but standart marine navigation radar something like Kelvin Hughes, Furuno, Sperry Marine or JRC. If It is requested, She can be modified to fire related missiles against targets detected/tracked by other bigger surface units thanks to advanced link capability. If It is Temren missile (Naval variant of Mizrak-U ATGM with ~17km range) to be integrated on MRTP-33 as Anti-ship missile, She would just need EO search & tracking units instead of radar.

Old design activities for Harpoons on MRTP-33 !

During IDEAS 2016 the PN said they needed another 4~6 "high speed warships" (I guess FACs) from China and/or Turkey. STM had revealed and offered the FAC-55 back then. I think one option (to save costs) would be to actually fit the MRTP-33 with the Atmaca AShM (when available) and add another 2~4 such ships. These are smaller and shorter-range/endurance than the Azmat FAC, but with the Damen OPV and Swift Corvettes coming, I think the focus now is to build out the littoral AShW force (as the offshore patrol element is being addressed with Damen/Swiftships). With the infrastructure in place, an AShM-equipped MRTP-33 would make for a good option.

 

[Gryphon]

MRTP-33 doesn't have a surveillance or fire control radar but standart marine navigation radar something like Kelvin Hughes, Furuno, Sperry Marine or JRC. If It is requested, She can be modified to fire related missiles against targets detected/tracked by other bigger surface units thanks to advanced link capability. If It is Temren missile (Naval variant of Mizrak-U ATGM with ~17km range) to be integrated on MRTP-33 as Anti-ship missile, She would just need EO search & tracking units instead of radar.

Old design activities for Harpoons on MRTP-33 !

Thanks.

As far as the MRTP-33 is concerned, the maximum beam is 6.7 m (I think that's the bridge area) and the max AShM load it can take is <= 5 tons, i.e., a retractable Mk 140 lightweight canister launcher loaded with 4x RGM-84 Harpoon (approx weight 4.1 t).
Atmaca is a heavier and longer missile (800 Kg and 6 m respectively). How feasible is the Atmaca on this ship?