Pakistan in talks for 4 Ada Class Corvettes, T-129 Helicopters & modernization of agosta fleet

[Readerdefence]

PM in turkey but he is not accompanied by any defence representative e.g. Even
DS or POF chairman

 

[Cool_Soldier]

It looks there is no deal during this tourism trip.

 

[T-123456]

@Zarvan ,i hope there wont be any disapointments,no mention of any deal yet.

''As part of his three-day visit, Sharif will also hold a meeting with President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan on regional and bilateral relations.''


http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/tu...feto.aspx?pageID=238&nID=110101&NewsCatID=510

''Both countries agreed to bolster bilateral trade volume and enhance cooperation.''

https://www.dailysabah.com/diplomac...ish-parliament-bombed-on-july-15-coup-attempt

 

[YeBeWarned]

I will say this, if it is Ada class rather than Istanbul class, then I would seriously wonder about the future of the PN. There is a glaring hole with respect to the air-defense capabilities of the fleet. Ada will not change that and the thought that 1 squadron of JF-17 operating from land will resolve that is minimizing the hole that PN is in vis a vis Indian Navy. They need ships that are able to defend themselves from Missile/aerial attacks. Given that RAM and RAM-2 are likely not available to PN, the Ada class will lend zero to advancing PNs capabilities beyond retiring Type 21s. They need to go for Istanbul class

maybe some Admiral is looking to make more bucks and plots in Bahria town ...i doubt they care about protecting our sea lanes. the best way forward was Type 54A yet we are looking for surface fleet without proper Air defense leaving them sitting Ducks for Indian Mig-29K and later Rafale .. if they are hoping to give cover with 1 sq consisted of 18 JF-17 block 3 ? than they are day dreaming ..

 

[razgriz19]

Mr. Zarvan just wanted to be "first" incase a deal was signed. Guess not eh

 

[Penguin]

doesnt article clearly states that this likely ada class NOT ISTANBUL class
if it is Istanbul class with VLS Mk41 and RAM block 2 than its obviously a great deal

Just Ada with Ram block 2 would be nice too, compared to F22P.

I will say this, if it is Ada class rather than Istanbul class, then I would seriously wonder about the future of the PN. There is a glaring hole with respect to the air-defense capabilities of the fleet. Ada will not change that and the thought that 1 squadron of JF-17 operating from land will resolve that is minimizing the hole that PN is in vis a vis Indian Navy. They need ships that are able to defend themselves from Missile/aerial attacks. Given that RAM and RAM-2 are likely not available to PN, the Ada class will lend zero to advancing PNs capabilities beyond retiring Type 21s. They need to go for Istanbul class

There is no point in an ADA acquisition without a point defence missile system. Worst case, you install a 21 round 9km FL-3000N, a Chinese AK-176 copy and a pair of Chinese single 25mm or 30mm cannon. FL-3000N means less range than HQ7 (12-15km, depending on FM-80/90) but better suited to anti-missile role, more ready rounds, ir/rf-homing = fire and forget = engage multiple targets better in quick succession. RAM block 0, 1 equivalent.

Plus, ADA will be less easily detected than F22P, most likely. Do not underestimate the value of that.

With AShM missile ranges being 200-300km or more, there is little change of engaging airborne launch platforms with any SAM. So, the only reason for longer range missile is dealing with supersonic missiles farther out. It still remains better to kill the launch platform than to defend against the munition.

Reality is that PN cannot (and should not attempt) to match IN in numbers or - given lower numbers - role specialization. If you want an AAAW ship, develop a dedicated variant on the same hull, loosing e.g. the helicopter and hanger, in order to install a large VLS farm, long range missiles and appropriate associated sensors. IMHO, large AAW destroyers have no place in PN.

 

[Mo12]

will the ships be manufactured in both turk and pak?

 

[Thorough Pro]

Didn't we sign an agreement with China for 4 new frigates? If yes, then how/why would be get 4 more from Turkey?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

will the ships be manufactured in both turk and pak?

They'd be assembled in Pakistan, like the PNFT

 

[T-123456]

They'd be assembled in Pakistan, like the PNFT

Not two here two there?

 

[ziaulislam]

Just Ada with Ram block 2 would be nice too, compared to F22P.


There is no point in an ADA acquisition without a point defence missile system. Worst case, you install a 21 round 9km FL-3000N, a Chinese AK-176 copy and a pair of Chinese single 25mm or 30mm cannon. FL-3000N means less range than HQ7 (12-15km, depending on FM-80/90) but better suited to anti-missile role, more ready rounds, ir/rf-homing = fire and forget = engage multiple targets better in quick succession. RAM block 0, 1 equivalent.

Plus, ADA will be less easily detected than F22P, most likely. Do not underestimate the value of that.

IMHO, large AAW destroyers have no place in PN.

f-22p cost less than twice what ada will cost, meaning too much cost for too little add ons
i agree that large destroyers have no role but decent size frigates having around 32 VLS are important these days
of topic PN needs to get RAM for its azmat class as well

 

[Penguin]

f-22p cost less than twice what ada will cost, meaning too much cost for too little add ons
i agree that large destroyers have no role but decent size frigates having around 32 VLS are important these days
of topic PN needs to get RAM for its azmat class as well

Quality doesn't come cheap and you can't just look at weapons. For a slightly smaller ship, he 2400 ton Ada uses 106 crew, versus 170 for the 3150 ton F22P (0.044 human per ton versus 0.054 human per ton). TF-100: 125 crew for 3000 tons, or 0.42 human per ton. That informs a bit about automation (something not immediatly apparent from the outside). There's a lot going in to these ships that isn't apparent or immediately visible, that makes them better ships.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Not two here two there?

Depends. STM told MSI that all four could be built in Pakistan, but I expect it'll be like the PNFT where STM will manufacture and supply kits to Pakistan for stuff that KSEW can't yet produce.

 

[Tank131]

Just Ada with Ram block 2 would be nice too, compared to F22P.


There is no point in an ADA acquisition without a point defence missile system. Worst case, you install a 21 round 9km FL-3000N, a Chinese AK-176 copy and a pair of Chinese single 25mm or 30mm cannon. FL-3000N means less range than HQ7 (12-15km, depending on FM-80/90) but better suited to anti-missile role, more ready rounds, ir/rf-homing = fire and forget = engage multiple targets better in quick succession. RAM block 0, 1 equivalent.

Plus, ADA will be less easily detected than F22P, most likely. Do not underestimate the value of that.

With AShM missile ranges being 200-300km or more, there is little change of engaging airborne launch platforms with any SAM. So, the only reason for longer range missile is dealing with supersonic missiles farther out. It still remains better to kill the launch platform than to defend against the munition.

Reality is that PN cannot (and should not attempt) to match IN in numbers or - given lower numbers - role specialization. If you want an AAAW ship, develop a dedicated variant on the same hull, loosing e.g. the helicopter and hanger, in order to install a large VLS farm, long range missiles and appropriate associated sensors. IMHO, large AAW destroyers have no place in PN.

I agree that Ada class is not useful without some type of point defense missiles at the very least. Though even with a FL-3000N, I think its not a viable solution for PN. The reality is that it will be used to replace type 21s but will add little to their capabilities. To Hence why i say that the Ada is not what PN should be seeking, rather they should go for Istanbul class. PN doesnt have the means to match IN ship for ship, that is why cost effective multirole ships need to be acquired. This reaks of kickbacks being involved as there are 2 better options available for PN in the form of Istanbul class and C28A variants with vls that you yourself showed the model of.

Quality doesn't come cheap and you can't just look at weapons. For a slightly smaller ship, he 2400 ton Ada uses 106 crew, versus 170 for the 3150 ton F22P (0.044 human per ton versus 0.054 human per ton). TF-100: 125 crew for 3000 tons, or 0.42 human per ton. That informs a bit about automation (something not immediatly apparent from the outside). There's a lot going in to these ships that isn't apparent or immediately visible, that makes them better ships.

The automation of the turkish ships are better apparently than the chinese ships, but it doesnt matter if the ship is not adding to the PNs capabilities. I doubt US will sell RAM or RAM2 to PN (if we do, pn should get more units to equop Alamghir too) and a 9km range (even 21 cell) is too small a range for a meaningful defense against IN especially when operating along. In Turkish nave these ships will operate with G-class and Istanbul class ships amd eventually with TF-2000, so point defense is reasonable for them. The PN has no vessel wth medium or long range air defense which can provide cover for Ada class.

 

[Imran Khan]

@Zarvan need all of the weapons on planet earth in pakistani hands