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Pakistan has failed when it comes to trade with China

Trade with China is usually one sided story for almost every country because of the cost differential and scale at which Chinese companies operate... but that is slowly changing.. Pakistan needs to cease its moment and xploit Chinese trade connections to pull its economy out of doldrums. Pakistani labor is cheaper than Chinese.. its the other input costs that make Pakistani products less competitive...


Indian labor is much cheaper than Chinese labor.But so far Iphone is produced in China not in India.Don't fabricate stories here and G20 is imminent and welcome Modi come here.If what you said is true,Chinese trade volume will plummet.In this world ,Indian businessmen is more famous than Indian workers.Do more ,say less.
 
Indian labor is much cheaper than Chinese labor.But so far Iphone is produced in China not in India.Don't fabricate stories here and G20 is imminent and welcome Modi come here.If what you said is true,Chinese trade volume will plummet.In this world ,Indian businessmen is more famous than Indian workers.Do more ,say less.
Why do Chinese have to bring this dick measuring contest into every thread.... The thread is about Pakistan China.. and you are busy ranting about India China Comparison...attention seekers.
 
i will be happy if we marge pakistan with china and give our country to them

Only official announcement is left to be done. Shahbaz sharif offered china free land if they establish their industries in Punjab. Chhabhar given so as Azad Kashmir. What you said is the best option left with Pakistan. Sooner is better. Pakistan can become a potential super power country after merging with china. This is the shortest way to be super power. I wish pakistan good luck.
 
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Why do Chinese have to bring this dick measuring contest into every thread.... The thread is about Pakistan China.. and you are busy ranting about India China Comparison...attention seekers.


Firstly you talked too much about Chinese and don't pretend to be blind here.I don't rant and rave.
I just reply to you according to the comment you talked of about China.
Secondly pay attention to your words...Like dick...don't show your personal quality like this here.
 
In Odia Language there is a proverb "Haat re na mari Bhat re mariba"....It means "If you cannot kill by hand then kill by Rice(food)"....You know what I mean!!:D

@SrNair @Dash @gslv @BDforever

Chinese are basically killing Pakistan by their food(destroying their industry).

Every nation has their weak points .
When it comes to the Pakistan,that soft button is 'their obsession with India'.
Unlike Pakistanis ,Chinese are brilliant businessmen and technocrats.
 
its must for future


i am ready to face it . it will be great to having lunch pork nipples with white wine and dinner BBQ dog with red wine :rofl:
China is completely taking over pakisthan

RIP pakistan small industry after CPEC.. i don;t understand why the &*^% Pakistan doesn't show spine and restrict china in flooding pakistan with B products .. like a freaking warehouise..
Pakistan should restrict China to a extent
 
There are few points that need to be cleared.

1. Pakistan does not have any "industry" to speak off as understood by most of the world. Therefore there is nothing to "kill". And if there is any real industry somebody please tell me where it is? And who are these "industrialist"? India for example has "Tata" etc

2. Pakistan economy stands on two legs.

(a) The gross raw production (mostly agriculture) and the export thereof with minimal value addition. For example grow rice, slap it into gunny bags and export it. The "industry" in this case being slapping into gunny bags and exporting it. The so called exporters have even failed to build a premium brand. Half of the rice exported in gunny bags ends up being reprocessed by third party (mostly Indian) brands who do the real value addition. This can also be seen in the cotton exports. All Pak does is grows the crop. Most of it is then exported with minimal value addition. Lot of it goes to Bangla who then add value addition to by turning it into shirts, trousers, suits etc to be sold in the West. In short all Pakistan does is depends on what nature has endowed with minimal value addition - this speaks lot about the so called industialists in Pakistan.

(b) The gross labour production - again this is mostly under educated, under skilled workers exported to Middle East and rest of the world who work in semi slavery to earn some money part of which is sent home as remittances. The annual remmitances are probably greater then all other exports combined. Thus in a way the biggest industry in Pakistan is labour export.

Exactly how Chinese are going to have impact on the two legs that the Pak economy stands on is beyond me. As stated above there is no industry or industrialists in Pakistan as understood by rest of the world. So which begs the question why all this song and dance?

Well we have a parasite rentier class in Pakistan. They are not businessmen or industialist like in rest of the world. They are class of people who have used their connections with the ruling elite (often they are the same - example being Nawaz) through family or clan connections to extract money out of licence rackets. The state places restrictions on free trade and then gives out licences to allies who then become importers to service the internal demand for modern consumer products. However in the early days this was "open racketeering" where the licence holders just imported products and made a profit by selling the imports at mark up to the consumer in Pakistan.

Over time a false fig leaf of "industialist" was given by setting up foreign join ventures, So for example from simply importing Nissan cars the licence holder set up a so called "production plant" in Pakistan jointly with Nissan. All this involved now was import of ready made parts and assembling the vehicles. Over time maybe a few pieces of plastic might be "made" in Pakistan but rest continued to be imported. Even with this minimal real manifacturing (as vehicle was designed, built abroad) the quality drops as most Pakistani consumers know.

Worse the price is higher then international prices. Such a "plant" is parasite. It could not survive without government licence and restrictions. Most car plants in the world produce over 300,000 cars per year and even then struggle to make profit as the efficiency favours plants that make over 500,000 cars a year. Yet in Pakistan there are 5 so called manufacturers with some producing less than 10,000 vehicles.

This licence parasites apply across the spectrum in Pakistan. What they do is get licence or patronage from the ruling elite and then import or set a joint venture with external party. Then they just make massive profut because the consumer has no choice to go anybody else. The result is Pakistan has built a huge parasite class that just gouges the helpless Pakistani consumer.It is this parasite class that is going to be wiped out by Chinese industry and about bloody time too.

This can be even seen in the service industry or transport. Take PIA. The only reason people fly with it is because there is no other choice. It is a government monopoly. The only reason why most people fly is because they are either migrants, migrants children (like myself) or workers in Middle East. Very few are tourists or businessmen coming to Pakistan. 85% are are airline users fit in the category i described. PIA of course is their to leach of this hostage market and we see the result.

So what is needed? Entire total decimation of rentier class and their crappy so called "endustri". Only by clearing and burning this forest of weeds will new healthy saplings be planted. Over time will grow into Pakistan's versions of Tata, Birla, Hydundai,Honda etc.

Don't blame the Chinese for the exposing the disease. Instead cure it.

Ps. To the Indians - What industry do you think the Chinese will kill in Pakistan? Please enlighten? Newsflash - there is non.
 
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There are few points that need to be cleared.

1. Pakistan does not have any "industry" to speak off as understood by most of the world. Therefore there is nothing to "kill". And if there is any real industry somebody please tell me where it is? And who are these "industrialist"? India for example has "Tata" etc

2. Pakistan economy stands on two legs.

(a) The gross raw production (mostly agriculture) and the export thereof with minimal value addition. for example grow rice, slap it ion gunny bags and export it. The "industry" in this case being slapping into gunny bags and exporting it. The so called exporters have even failed to build a premium brand. Half of the rice exported in gunny bags ends up being reprocessed by third party (mostly Indian) brands who do the real value addition. This can also be seen in the cotton exports. All Pak does is grows the crop. Most of it is then exported with minimal value addition. Lot of it goes to Bangla who then add value addition to by turning it into shirts, trousers, suits etc to be sold in the West. In short all pakistan does is depends on what nature has endowed with minimal value addition - this speaks lot about the so called industialists in Pakistan.

(b) The gross labour production - again this is mostly under educated, under skilled workers exported to Middle East and rest of the world who work in semi slavery to earn some money part of which is sent home as remittances. The annual remmitances are orobably greater then all other exports combined. Thus in a way the biggest industry in Pakistan is labour export.

Exactly how Chinese are going to have impact on the two legs that the Pak economy stands on is beyond me. As stated above there is no industry or industrialists in Pakistan as understood by rest of the world. So which begs the queestion why all this song and dance?

Well we have a parasite rentier class in Pakistan. They are not businessmen or industialist like in rest of the world. They are class of people who have used their connections with the ruling elite (often they are the same - example being Nawaz) through family or clan connections to extract money out of licence rackets. The state places restrictions on free trade and then gives out licences to allies who then become importers to service the internal demand for modern consumer products. However in the early days this was "open racketeering" where the licence holders just imported products and made a profit by selling the imports at mark up to the consumer in Pakistan. Over time a false fig leaf of "industialist" was given by setting up foreign join ventures, So for example from simply importing Nissan cars the licence holder set up a so called "production plant" in Pakistan jointly with Nissan. All this involved now was import of ready made parts and assembling the vehicles. Over time maybe a few pieces of plastic might be "made" in Pakistan but rest continued to be imported. Even with this minimal real manifacturing (as vehicle was designed, built abroad) the quality drops as most Pakistani consumers know. Worse the price is higher then international prices. Such a "plant" is parasite. It could not survive without government licence and restrictions. Most car plants in the world produce over 300,000 cars per year and even then struggle to make profit as the efficiency favours plants that make over 500,000 cars a year. Yet in Pakistan there are 5 so called manufacturers with some producing less than 10,000 vehicles.

This licence parasites apply across the spectrum in Pakistan. What they do is get licence or patronage from the ruling elite and then import or set a joint venture with external party. Then they just make massive profut because the consumer has no choice to go anybody else. The result is Pakistan has built a huge parasite class that just gouges the helpless Pakistani consumer.

This can be even seen in the service industry or transport. Take PIA. The only reason people fly with it is because there is no other choice. It is a government monopoly. The only reason why most people fly is because they are either migrants, migrants children (like myself) or workers in Middle East. Very few are tourists or businessmen coming to Pakistan. 85% are are airline users fit in the category i described. PIA of course is their to leach of this hostage market and we see the result.

So what is needed? Entire total decimation of rentier class and their crappy so called "endustri". Only by clearing and burning this forest of weeds will new healthy saplings be planted. Over time will grow into Pakistan's versions of Tata, Birla, Hydundai,Honda etc.

Don't blame the Chinese for the exposing the disease. Instead cure it.

Ps. To the Indians - What industry do you think the Chinese will kill in Pakistan? Please enlighten? Newsflash - there is non.

Frank, honest, detached view of Truth...devoid of any bias. Commendable...hopefully more Pak friends follow this Virtue.

Please, enjoy my respect young brother!

Policies make or break a nation. Can Pak become an manufacturing country. Yes.

If corruption unique to Pak. No.

CPEC is a framework not only an infrastructure project. If some good people in Pak can come up will policies that can lay the foundation of establishing industries, then Pak fortunes can change in a couple of decades. Otherwise, it is going to be the same daily grind.

If one recalls corrrectly in the 60s you were one of tigers in Asia.

What happened? What caused the present downward spiral?

Still it is never to late. Never here is meant as operative word. Pak policy makers can still cherry pick from the Chinese model. Learn from best practices and mistakes.

Pak policy makers can then create development framework that is applicable to unqie Pak situation.

Wish all Pak friends and citizen a peaceful and prosperous future.
 
There are few points that need to be cleared.

1. Pakistan does not have any "industry" to speak off as understood by most of the world. Therefore there is nothing to "kill". And if there is any real industry somebody please tell me where it is? And who are these "industrialist"? India for example has "Tata" etc

2. Pakistan economy stands on two legs.

(a) The gross raw production (mostly agriculture) and the export thereof with minimal value addition. For example grow rice, slap it into gunny bags and export it. The "industry" in this case being slapping into gunny bags and exporting it. The so called exporters have even failed to build a premium brand. Half of the rice exported in gunny bags ends up being reprocessed by third party (mostly Indian) brands who do the real value addition. This can also be seen in the cotton exports. All Pak does is grows the crop. Most of it is then exported with minimal value addition. Lot of it goes to Bangla who then add value addition to by turning it into shirts, trousers, suits etc to be sold in the West. In short all Pakistan does is depends on what nature has endowed with minimal value addition - this speaks lot about the so called industialists in Pakistan.

(b) The gross labour production - again this is mostly under educated, under skilled workers exported to Middle East and rest of the world who work in semi slavery to earn some money part of which is sent home as remittances. The annual remmitances are probably greater then all other exports combined. Thus in a way the biggest industry in Pakistan is labour export.

Exactly how Chinese are going to have impact on the two legs that the Pak economy stands on is beyond me. As stated above there is no industry or industrialists in Pakistan as understood by rest of the world. So which begs the question why all this song and dance?

Well we have a parasite rentier class in Pakistan. They are not businessmen or industialist like in rest of the world. They are class of people who have used their connections with the ruling elite (often they are the same - example being Nawaz) through family or clan connections to extract money out of licence rackets. The state places restrictions on free trade and then gives out licences to allies who then become importers to service the internal demand for modern consumer products. However in the early days this was "open racketeering" where the licence holders just imported products and made a profit by selling the imports at mark up to the consumer in Pakistan.

Over time a false fig leaf of "industialist" was given by setting up foreign join ventures, So for example from simply importing Nissan cars the licence holder set up a so called "production plant" in Pakistan jointly with Nissan. All this involved now was import of ready made parts and assembling the vehicles. Over time maybe a few pieces of plastic might be "made" in Pakistan but rest continued to be imported. Even with this minimal real manifacturing (as vehicle was designed, built abroad) the quality drops as most Pakistani consumers know.

Worse the price is higher then international prices. Such a "plant" is parasite. It could not survive without government licence and restrictions. Most car plants in the world produce over 300,000 cars per year and even then struggle to make profit as the efficiency favours plants that make over 500,000 cars a year. Yet in Pakistan there are 5 so called manufacturers with some producing less than 10,000 vehicles.

This licence parasites apply across the spectrum in Pakistan. What they do is get licence or patronage from the ruling elite and then import or set a joint venture with external party. Then they just make massive profut because the consumer has no choice to go anybody else. The result is Pakistan has built a huge parasite class that just gouges the helpless Pakistani consumer.It is this parasite class that is going to be wiped out by Chinese industry and about bloody time too.

This can be even seen in the service industry or transport. Take PIA. The only reason people fly with it is because there is no other choice. It is a government monopoly. The only reason why most people fly is because they are either migrants, migrants children (like myself) or workers in Middle East. Very few are tourists or businessmen coming to Pakistan. 85% are are airline users fit in the category i described. PIA of course is their to leach of this hostage market and we see the result.

So what is needed? Entire total decimation of rentier class and their crappy so called "endustri". Only by clearing and burning this forest of weeds will new healthy saplings be planted. Over time will grow into Pakistan's versions of Tata, Birla, Hydundai,Honda etc.

Don't blame the Chinese for the exposing the disease. Instead cure it.

Ps. To the Indians - What industry do you think the Chinese will kill in Pakistan? Please enlighten? Newsflash - there is non.


You may find a few flinging Nawaz Sharief's name soon though.

Great analysis though
 
There are few points that need to be cleared.

1. Pakistan does not have any "industry" to speak off as understood by most of the world. Therefore there is nothing to "kill". And if there is any real industry somebody please tell me where it is? And who are these "industrialist"? India for example has "Tata" etc

2. Pakistan economy stands on two legs.

(a) The gross raw production (mostly agriculture) and the export thereof with minimal value addition. For example grow rice, slap it into gunny bags and export it. The "industry" in this case being slapping into gunny bags and exporting it. The so called exporters have even failed to build a premium brand. Half of the rice exported in gunny bags ends up being reprocessed by third party (mostly Indian) brands who do the real value addition. This can also be seen in the cotton exports. All Pak does is grows the crop. Most of it is then exported with minimal value addition. Lot of it goes to Bangla who then add value addition to by turning it into shirts, trousers, suits etc to be sold in the West. In short all Pakistan does is depends on what nature has endowed with minimal value addition - this speaks lot about the so called industialists in Pakistan.

(b) The gross labour production - again this is mostly under educated, under skilled workers exported to Middle East and rest of the world who work in semi slavery to earn some money part of which is sent home as remittances. The annual remmitances are probably greater then all other exports combined. Thus in a way the biggest industry in Pakistan is labour export.

Exactly how Chinese are going to have impact on the two legs that the Pak economy stands on is beyond me. As stated above there is no industry or industrialists in Pakistan as understood by rest of the world. So which begs the question why all this song and dance?

Well we have a parasite rentier class in Pakistan. They are not businessmen or industialist like in rest of the world. They are class of people who have used their connections with the ruling elite (often they are the same - example being Nawaz) through family or clan connections to extract money out of licence rackets. The state places restrictions on free trade and then gives out licences to allies who then become importers to service the internal demand for modern consumer products. However in the early days this was "open racketeering" where the licence holders just imported products and made a profit by selling the imports at mark up to the consumer in Pakistan.

Over time a false fig leaf of "industialist" was given by setting up foreign join ventures, So for example from simply importing Nissan cars the licence holder set up a so called "production plant" in Pakistan jointly with Nissan. All this involved now was import of ready made parts and assembling the vehicles. Over time maybe a few pieces of plastic might be "made" in Pakistan but rest continued to be imported. Even with this minimal real manifacturing (as vehicle was designed, built abroad) the quality drops as most Pakistani consumers know.

Worse the price is higher then international prices. Such a "plant" is parasite. It could not survive without government licence and restrictions. Most car plants in the world produce over 300,000 cars per year and even then struggle to make profit as the efficiency favours plants that make over 500,000 cars a year. Yet in Pakistan there are 5 so called manufacturers with some producing less than 10,000 vehicles.

This licence parasites apply across the spectrum in Pakistan. What they do is get licence or patronage from the ruling elite and then import or set a joint venture with external party. Then they just make massive profut because the consumer has no choice to go anybody else. The result is Pakistan has built a huge parasite class that just gouges the helpless Pakistani consumer.It is this parasite class that is going to be wiped out by Chinese industry and about bloody time too.

This can be even seen in the service industry or transport. Take PIA. The only reason people fly with it is because there is no other choice. It is a government monopoly. The only reason why most people fly is because they are either migrants, migrants children (like myself) or workers in Middle East. Very few are tourists or businessmen coming to Pakistan. 85% are are airline users fit in the category i described. PIA of course is their to leach of this hostage market and we see the result.

So what is needed? Entire total decimation of rentier class and their crappy so called "endustri". Only by clearing and burning this forest of weeds will new healthy saplings be planted. Over time will grow into Pakistan's versions of Tata, Birla, Hydundai,Honda etc.

Don't blame the Chinese for the exposing the disease. Instead cure it.

Ps. To the Indians - What industry do you think the Chinese will kill in Pakistan? Please enlighten? Newsflash - there is non.

 
And? What do you think those "cottage endustree" parasites are going to say? I have bought trainers from these "cottage endustree" that cost almost the same as in UK. Differance? Two weeks of jogging and they fell apart. These are parasite. I ask again. Where is the industry in Pakistan? Other than "slapping rice into gunny bags" there is nothing. It is all rentier class licence racketeering. Tell me one brand that has made it out of Pakistan? You have Tata, IT companies etc. Pakistan? Non.

Because Pak depends on sending workers/migrants abroad and then when huge domestic demand is created by remittances (the true figure could be as high as $40 billion - in ratio that would be $269 billion in India) the parasite rentiers live of selling on foreign products under licence. This is the reality. That is why you see huge housing estates sprouting outside major cities in Pakistan. Massive imports of remittances keep the economy afloat.

And where there is no foreign remittances impact (direct or indirect) there is mass poverty. Example Thar Parker.
 
Pakistan has one.....may be the largest source of revenue generator. That is tourism. Their hospitality (not now as is evident from Mr. Rajnath episode), food and scenery, where they can beat all Asians hands down. But their obsession with religion and India is the largest road block to this. And this is not going to end......alas, not in the coming 100 years.

If Pakistan stops all this, they cannot even control the revenue generated by only Indian tourists, leave aside other parts of India.

@WAJsal @SrNair @Rain Man @jbgt90
 
I think becoming a major manufacturing hub is not possible anymore as that train has long gone to China. Pakistan/India should instead focus on the service sector.
Pakistani textile industry IMO has huge scope in India. It is a shame that our relation adversely effects the trade between the two.
 
Pakistan has one.....may be the largest source of revenue generator. That is tourism. Their hospitality (not now as is evident from Mr. Rajnath episode), food and scenery, where they can beat all Asians hands down. But their obsession with religion and India is the largest road block to this. And this is not going to end......alas, not in the coming 100 years.

If Pakistan stops all this, they cannot even control the revenue generated by only Indian tourists, leave aside other parts of India.

@WAJsal @SrNair @Rain Man @jbgt90

Pakistanis gives more prominence to ego ,emotions and religions.
They imported a lots from India through Dubai .
They have a direct border with us yet they need Dubai .One can imagine the loss of their revenue .

Of Course US is now turning back against them ,still we all knows the game is not over .Yet Pak diplomay is now China oriented because of that basic emotions .
They have natural gifts in their land like that snow capped mountains and valley .They have a lots of potential in tourism .
If they dont want our people in there then so be it . Former GoI had show some concessions towards because most of them were from earlier generations .New gen people sees them as aliens .Pakistanis are still not accepting that reality .
 
And finally this is a abnormal economy - that depends on migrant income that is cause of Pakistan's distress. I often hear parents complaining about tearway teanagers and somebody wil reply "get em married and when he has kid or two and wife he will sober up because of responsibilities".

Well economics sobers people up bad style. This is fact. The strongest impulse in human being other than sex is economics.Pakistan's economy and more importantly her people have become detached from "economic realities". One of the result is you see wayward anti Westernism and Islamic madness. This is equivalent to wayward teenager who has no care or concern as they are being fed by parents.

Migrant remittances allows most of Pakistan to behave the way it does. However what if most Pakistani's were working in factories inside Pakistan making shirts, shoes, toys, furniture etc that were exported to the West. Then most Pakistani's would either directly or indirectly depend on Western markerts and consumers. This would mean there would be direct working link between the consumer in the West and getting your evening meal on table in Pakistan. Trust me most Pakistani's would suddenly become sober and not so crazy about burning Western flags. You see this in Bangla. There is now huge piece of their economy which now depends on the Western buyer. And this has built up a entire class of people in Bangla whose fortunes are tied to those Western markets. You see the change in Bangla already as secularism has gained ground. Those owners of garment plants know that if Islamists took over and they annoyed their markets - bang goes the billion dollar orders.

In Pakistan we don't have this economic responsibility. Millions of them work in Middle East or the West. They send money home. They build houses. They buy produces which keeps the economy singing along and is entirely immune to crazy politics.

Theefore opening up to China is going to bring huge changes - not only economics but the social religious milieu is going to come under pressure to change and this is going to be volatile times but out of the other end will come a more open, more liberal connected society. This China syndrome is going call for some major changes inside Pakistan unless you think they are going to run back to Uncle Sam?

The real CPEC is not the game changer. It is just concrete. The real game changer is the ideas that will flow. The linkages it will create. The winds of change to closed off society.
 
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